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Doms who love Brats - 4/29/2011 1:20:21 PM   
OwnedFemaleFlesh


Posts: 182
Joined: 4/9/2011
Status: offline 		Ever since I started getting into BDSM, I've been taught that being a brat is a bad thing and to be avoided. With this in mind, I've always been eager to show that I was willing to follow any orders my Owner gives me, of not misbehaving or acting up just to get punished. Likewise, I've always steered clear of Doms who seemed to only want to play when it was punishment, those who got to extreme lengths to create 'excuses' for punishment. i.e. by giving impossible tasks, or punishing for things outside of the submissive's control. I've always been of the opinion that if my Owner wants to hurt me, he can do so without any reason at all, let alone making up convoluted, pretend punishment scenarios.

However, in the last few years, I've noticed that some Doms actively seem to like brats, and that having a submissive who eagerly capitulates almost turns them off. They seem to prefer inflicting pain, torture, suffering, useage on a submissive who doesn't want it, rather than a submissive who does. (Obviously, I'm still talking about consensual play here.) I'm now at the stage where I recognise elements of this in my Owner. For instance, sometimes I am ticklish and sometimes less so. If my Owner tickles me and I just smile and don't react, he'll stop straight away. But if I scream, wriggle, run away, then I can guarantee he'll be chasing me round the flat, tickling me till I can't stand anymore. Likewise s&m. If I tell my Owner how much I like being beaten, how much I enjoy it, he'll barely react. But if I say I don't want it and try to get out of it, he'll get this sadistic glint in his eye and drag me over to the bed by my hair. Once again, it's the same with orgasm denial, the more I say I enjoy it, the less he seems to. Yet the more I protest, sulk, complain, beg to orgasm, the more firmly and dominantly he will deny me.

So my questions are - is there anyone else who prefers the brat to the good girl, and if so, why? Can you shed any light on what it is you enjoy about being 'contrary' to what the submisive enjoys, is it just another way of showing your power, or is it that you prefer the challenge, the power struggle, or something else? And, since I am very happy to serve my Owner in the way he most enjoys, how does a good girl bring out her brat side without going too far? He seemed to enjoy me bratting a little this evening, but then later stated that I was being very 'feisty'. I don't want to genuinely annoy him or wear him out. Does anyone have any suggestions for little ways to brat that aren't overly annoying to Dominants?

Yes I know everyone is different, but it never hurts to get other people's thoughts and perspectives :-)

owned xxx
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RE: Doms who love Brats - 4/29/2011 2:53:35 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		As with most things, I tend to follow a moderate path rather than sway between extremes.

So of course I don't want a perpetual brat but I'd get bored with a perfect princess, too. My D/s works best with me as the primary initiator and the girl taking her cues from me. As you've described, if I wanna use the girl in some way, such as a flogging, then I just do it without contriving reasons. All she has to do is what I tell her....

But occasionally, I also take cues from her behaviour, esp if she's been a bit disrespectful. Not exactly a full-on brat but heading in that direction.... And yeah, while I don't encourage it, I still appreciate those occasional times to "pull the reins" on her. I will say I'm fine with her being playfully disrespectful when it's just us because inevitably, it's her arse.

I think what you've described is more to do with your dom. That he's become entirely reactive (instead of proactive) and taking all his cues from you - instead of maybe 20-30%. Which kinda leaves you in the unfair position of acting out to get attention.... You're leading the relationship and subs suck at leading.

He's got something going on between his ears that you both need to discuss in depth. It isn't your bratty behaviour so much as his reluctance to lead and set the standard of acceptable behaviour. Good ol' communication needs to be on the menu.

Focus.

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RE: Doms who love Brats - 4/29/2011 3:42:27 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh

I don't want to genuinely annoy him or wear him out. Does anyone have any suggestions for little ways to brat that aren't overly annoying to Dominants?

What will and won't be overly annoying is individual to him, but you might want to set up a signal - something he can say to let you know if you're genuinely starting to grate instead of entertaining him.


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RE: Doms who love Brats - 4/29/2011 3:47:49 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Personally I think you've answered your own question Owned.

The example you gave of tickling isn't actually being bratty. We all know that moment... vanilla or kink... and it's fun & games. You weren't actually fleeing his intention you were "mock fleeing". Honestly it never would've occurred to me to think of anything which is clearly "not real" to be "bratty". Carol sometimes holds her hands on her hips and asks in her most indignant tone of voice, "How come YOU got the ring of power?" I always answer, "Hey, you were there with me at the jewelry store. You could've gotten that one if you'd wanted." I don't think that's being bratty or disrespectful. I think that's two people laughing with each other.

I think the question gets stickier though when we're talking about actual defiance.

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RE: Doms who love Brats - 4/29/2011 4:23:17 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		that nailed it right on the head.

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RE: Doms who love Brats - 4/29/2011 4:26:09 PM   
NocturnalStalker


Posts: 3858
Joined: 12/4/2010
Status: offline 		All girls I have encountered are jerks.  All they do is sleep with you, then leave you alone, then sleep with you again.  Well what about *my* needs?  Remember when you'd go out and share milkshakes?  Now I am surrounded by sluts.  

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RE: Doms who love Brats - 4/29/2011 4:39:27 PM   
wittynamehere


Posts: 759
Joined: 2/5/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh
I've been taught that being a brat is a bad thing.

Consider the possibility that whoever taught you was giving you THEIR take on it, and that there are other opinions out there.

Myself I'm not interested in girls who are willfully obnoxious and who work against me constantly. I don't want to punish those types, I want to completely avoid them altogether. But yes, there are many dominants who enjoy being given more work to do (such as constantly dealing with difficult submissives).

quote:

ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh
I've noticed that some Doms actively seem to like brats. I've always steered clear of Doms who [want to punish]. I'm now at the stage where I recognise elements of this in my Owner.

Looks like you didn't manage to steer clear of doms who want to punish, after all.

Sounds like incompatibility. Hopefully it can be worked through. For this, you're going to have to communicate with him. Good luck.


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RE: Doms who love Brats - 4/29/2011 4:55:44 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh



However, in the last few years, I've noticed that some Doms actively seem to like brats, and that having a submissive who eagerly capitulates almost turns them off. They seem to prefer inflicting pain, torture, suffering, useage on a submissive who doesn't want it, rather than a submissive who does. (Obviously, I'm still talking about consensual play here.) I'm now at the stage where I recognise elements of this in my Owner. For instance, sometimes I am ticklish and sometimes less so. If my Owner tickles me and I just smile and don't react, he'll stop straight away. But if I scream, wriggle, run away, then I can guarantee he'll be chasing me round the flat, tickling me till I can't stand anymore. Likewise s&m. If I tell my Owner how much I like being beaten, how much I enjoy it, he'll barely react. But if I say I don't want it and try to get out of it, he'll get this sadistic glint in his eye and drag me over to the bed by my hair. Once again, it's the same with orgasm denial, the more I say I enjoy it, the less he seems to. Yet the more I protest, sulk, complain, beg to orgasm, the more firmly and dominantly he will deny me.

Yes I know everyone is different, but it never hurts to get other people's thoughts and perspectives :-)

owned xxx


I am reading this completely different, and more in line with Focus' post.

He is reacting to you, but I don't read it as having anything to do with bratting, but more to do with him wanting to assert his dominance and perhaps he might have a bit of a (playfully?) sadistic streak in him as well.

If you are feeling confused about what he wants from you, have you asked him what his expectations are?

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RE: Doms who love Brats - 4/29/2011 5:05:10 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Oh I get feisty.  We goof around with each other all the time, and I playfully egg him on at times, which he responds to be really giving it to me.  But it's not in an antagonistic or disrespectful way, it's just fun and silliness, and we both get something out of that.  Brattiness, to me, would be if I were serious about some of the remarks I make ("What, do you think you're in charge or something?" or "Is that all you've got?").  If I were serious, we'd be mismatched.

Time with him has taught me when I'm nearing the line, which I don't want to cross.  I can usually tell by a slight shift in his reaction, or if I'm not getting that clue quickly enough, he'll say "Enough" and that's that.

I suggest you talk to him about this and ask him to show you where that line is.  Then there's no guess work, no irritating anyone, no confusion, and you can just enjoy yourselves.

I have to disagree with one thing Focus said, though, about subs sucking at leading.  It's true for some but not a characteristic fit by all.


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RE: Doms who love Brats - 4/29/2011 5:12:43 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		No one wants to be around a cunt. It isn't cute.

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RE: Doms who love Brats - 4/29/2011 5:57:38 PM   
coookie


Posts: 541
Joined: 10/25/2010
Status: offline 		Some have cute cunts ..... im just saying! =p

But seriously i tried to do the uber good girl who always obeys and never sasses back but it just didn't work for me. I am who i am and at times that means silly or sarky but N always lets me know when enough is enough. To never let my silly out though would be no fun for me and long term if it aint fun .... why am i doing it? If bratty behaviour is a turn off for you then just communicate that with him.

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RE: Doms who love Brats - 4/29/2011 6:23:15 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Bratting here does not involve me disliking things. It means I tease him as a way to instigate play. I have enormous troubles with rejection and will do without rather than ask. It took two years for him to teach me that it was okay to ask him to stop for a moment at a minimart so I could buy a bottle of water. Before that I would be dehydrated and sick rather than have to risk being told no.

Teasing him, bratting, is a method where I can communicate my mood and desires without risking being told no. If he wants to play, we will. If he doesn't, I'll get tickled or spanked for a little and then told to sit down. What I don't get is being told "No, I don't want to have sex with you" because I can't handle that well.


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RE: Doms who love Brats - 4/30/2011 12:05:30 PM   
OwnedFemaleFlesh


Posts: 182
Joined: 4/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere

quote:

ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh
I've been taught that being a brat is a bad thing.

Consider the possibility that whoever taught you was giving you THEIR take on it, and that there are other opinions out there.


That's true. I got into BDSM about 10 years ago on the old MSN chatrooms. It was becoming more popular, but it was nowhere near as popular as it is now. There were some definite ideas floating round at the time that I'm aware I'm still carrying with me today, and my idea about brats is one of them. My Dom however, is more new school than old school, and hey - if that's the way he wants to play, then so be it, it's not my role to question his preferences. This is why I'm trying to deconstruct my older, now unnecessary ways of thinking, and learn to submit to what he wants from me, rather than what Doms may have wanted from me 10 years ago. It's only incompatibility if I'm unwilling or unable, and hopefully I'm neither :-)

owned xxx

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RE: Doms who love Brats - 4/30/2011 12:25:45 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		To answer your questions, you really have to define the term brat. Unfortunately, it is yet another BDSM term that has as many definitions as persons using it.

How I would define a brat in a *bad* way: Constantly flouts authority, refuses to obey the first time, often plain out does not obey without "punishment," talks back when given a directive, needs constant follow through to get the simplest task accomplished, engages in passive aggressive behavior for the sole purpose of manipulating the dom's emotions, and when the dom admits frustration with the above behavior, taunts the dome with "it's not MY fault if you don't know how (aren't man enough, aren't dom enough)  to tame me."

How I would define a brat in a *good* way:  Tends to be playful and flirty. Will obey, but rarely obeys without a humorous comment like "okay, I will only do it b/c you're the MAN." Likes to get silly on occasion. Clearly does not flout the dom's authority, but likes to make it clear they are submitting b/c the WANT to. Tend to be mouthy and are more than capable of giving the dom input on just about anything; will not be shy about telling the dom if they think something is wrong or off. Might have a tendency to test a dom's power and authority, though this is done rarely, and more in the beginning as lines are drawn; may be seen as disrespectful to others who are not clear on the dynamic.

I hate a bad brat and adore a good one. Now, is that confusing enough?

YMMV



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RE: Doms who love Brats - 4/30/2011 1:23:25 PM   
OwnedFemaleFlesh


Posts: 182
Joined: 4/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ
He is reacting to you, but I don't read it as having anything to do with bratting, but more to do with him wanting to assert his dominance and perhaps he might have a bit of a (playfully?) sadistic streak in him as well.

If you are feeling confused about what he wants from you, have you asked him what his expectations are?


PLayfully sadistic is a great expression, I think that encapsulates it very well. I think you are right that it is about asserting his dominance. I know communication is the golden rule of BDSM, and normally I would talk his ear off about it. But sometimes I think discretion is the better part of submission, and it might spoil his spontaneous enjoyment if I overtalk it with him. It's not so much that I'm confused, but more than I like bouncing ideas off kinky folk and seeing if it meshes with anything in their experience, and making use of their wisdom where I can.

owned xxx

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RE: Doms who love Brats - 4/30/2011 1:27:39 PM   
OwnedFemaleFlesh


Posts: 182
Joined: 4/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

To answer your questions, you really have to define the term brat. Unfortunately, it is yet another BDSM term that has as many definitions as persons using it.

How I would define a brat in a *bad* way: Constantly flouts authority, refuses to obey the first time, often plain out does not obey without "punishment," talks back when given a directive, needs constant follow through to get the simplest task accomplished, engages in passive aggressive behavior for the sole purpose of manipulating the dom's emotions, and when the dom admits frustration with the above behavior, taunts the dome with "it's not MY fault if you don't know how (aren't man enough, aren't dom enough)  to tame me."

How I would define a brat in a *good* way:  Tends to be playful and flirty. Will obey, but rarely obeys without a humorous comment like "okay, I will only do it b/c you're the MAN." Likes to get silly on occasion. Clearly does not flout the dom's authority, but likes to make it clear they are submitting b/c the WANT to. Tend to be mouthy and are more than capable of giving the dom input on just about anything; will not be shy about telling the dom if they think something is wrong or off. Might have a tendency to test a dom's power and authority, though this is done rarely, and more in the beginning as lines are drawn; may be seen as disrespectful to others who are not clear on the dynamic.

I hate a bad brat and adore a good one. Now, is that confusing enough?

YMMV


Ha ha, that actually makes perfect sense, thanks :-D

owned xxx

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