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RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 9:07:07 AM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		ha sorry it's very early and I must have read the word wrong when you said rhetorical I thought you ment rhetorical. Yes I do know dom/mes like humor too. You don't need to point out how many different kinds of people there are to me though. I already know

p.s. I said most not all.

*edit do to the fact that it is to early to type like anything other then a monkey on crack* Cheers.

< Message edited by MissImmortalPain -- 4/28/2011 9:17:11 AM >

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RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 9:09:42 AM   
ParappaTheDapper


Posts: 190
Joined: 4/28/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

ha sorry it's very early and I must have read the word wrong when you said rhetorical. Yes I do know dom/mes like humor too. You don't need to point out how many different kinds of people there are to me though. I already know


I was probably teasing you slightly as I elaborated on that point. You seem like the sort of person who can take it. :)

(in reply to MissImmortalPain)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 9:11:26 AM   
BurntKitty


Posts: 3340
Joined: 9/7/2010
From: Here To Eternity.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Masterand9k

<snip>... a true sub...


That's where the problem lies. When someone starts with the "tw00" this or that, the eye rolling begins. What is tw00 to you may not be tw00 to someone else.
I'm submissive only when in a relationship. I'm not submissive to the world in general.


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 9:13:29 AM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		It's cool I actually like being teased. Thats why I was being sarcastic when I said I was sorry for reading it wrong. After all if you don't laugh you just die faster, right, kid.

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

(in reply to ParappaTheDapper)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 9:43:04 AM   
OwnedFemaleFlesh


Posts: 182
Joined: 4/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Masterand9k
...a true sub became submissive by nature before they were 6.


If it was 'by nature' then they must have been born submissive, rather than 'becoming' submissive. If it takes until the age of 6 to 'become' submissive, then it must have been caused by socialisation, but socialisation can always be undone, or altered by later socialisation or experiences, suggesting that anyone can 'become' submissive, at any age.

Having read research of pathways into BDSM (Safe, Sane & Consensual, Langdridge & Barker, 2007) it is true that early conditioning can lead to a later interest in particular BDSM roles, but only in a percentage of people known as 'early identifiers'. Many others are led to an interest in BDSM through later experiences, introduction by partners or sexual experimentation. This is even more true in the internet age, where BDSM is commonplace and easy to read about and practice from the safety of one's own home.

I personally believe that submission, like any other sexual or relational orientation, can be enjoyed by many people, at any age. I know people who have discovered they enjoy submitting in their 40s, 50s and 60s.

There is also a strong crossover between people already in the scene. I mainly identified as a masochist until I was trained to be submissive, and likewise you have Dom/mes who later discover they can enjoy the submissive role too.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Masterand9k
As a Dom/Master I can only train a sub how I wish her to be.


Training can take many different aspects. The role of a Dominant to a newbie could be to show him / her how enjoyable submission can be, this is itself leads to the newbie being 'trained in submission' as they get an idea of what it includes, and, if enjoyable, is likely to make them want to continue. I had no idea I would like it this much until I was introduced to it by a Dominant, and his skillful training took me to levels of pleasure, satisfaction and enjoyment that I had no idea existed. Now I would never consider going back to just being a masochist.

All this focus on what one 'is' rather than what one 'does' just closes off doors to growth and experimentation, imo. We are what we do, if we choose to do submission, this makes us as submissive as anyone else :-)

owned xxx

(in reply to Masterand9k)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 10:02:15 AM   
AneNoz


Posts: 263
Joined: 4/26/2011
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quote:

We are what we do, if we choose to do submission, this makes us as submissive as anyone else :-)
There is wisdom in this I had not considered. I thank you for it.

Be at peace
Aneka

(in reply to OwnedFemaleFlesh)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 11:24:44 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Dude, that's one badly worded question...if she's a sub, then what does she need to learn in order to be a sub? If you mean can you train anybody to be a sub, well the answer is a resounding yes! If they can train an elephant to do a handstand and walk on its front legs...well I'd say just about anything can be taught given enough time and persistence.


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 11:50:09 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Dude, that's one badly worded question...if she's a sub, then what does she need to learn in order to be a sub? If you mean can you train anybody to be a sub, well the answer is a resounding yes! If they can train an elephant to do a handstand and walk on its front legs...well I'd say just about anything can be taught given enough time and persistence.



Im thinking submission like dominance is more of a desire. ie you can lead a horse to water but...you can explain to them submissive traits but you can't "make" them be a submissive.

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 4/28/2011 11:51:36 AM >

_____________________________

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We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 12:51:16 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Dude, that's one badly worded question...if she's a sub, then what does she need to learn in order to be a sub? If you mean can you train anybody to be a sub, well the answer is a resounding yes! If they can train an elephant to do a handstand and walk on its front legs...well I'd say just about anything can be taught given enough time and persistence.



Im thinking submission like dominance is more of a desire. ie you can lead a horse to water but...you can explain to them submissive traits but you can't "make" them be a submissive.

BadOne


have to agree with BadOne.

i think like someone has already said, first define what you mean by submissive -

if youre idea of submission is for a woman to accept, obey, follow and hand all authority across to their Dominant then no, you cant. the woman in question would have to be inherently sub to start with.

if youre idea of submission is to have her respond to some BDSM and mutually pleasing power exchange then yes, you can. because if its fun and doesnt challenge her too much she'll run with it, whether thats submission per se is another topic altogether.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 1:02:35 PM   
Masterand9k


Posts: 16
Joined: 9/25/2006
Status: offline 		What I was looking for were peoples thoughts (and I did get a few) But for the most part many of you were trying to school Me. Here is a fact; we are all born a blank sheet of paper. But within the 1st 6 years we become who we are for the rest of ours lives. That said what we become is neither black nor white but someplace inbetween the (hundreds of shades of grey)

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RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 1:11:23 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Masterand9k

Here is a fact; we are all born a blank sheet of paper.


This statement is not a fact.  Studies show that genetics play an important role in personality development.  You may wish to read some academic publications before engaging in armchair psychology.

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(in reply to Masterand9k)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 1:17:24 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Masterand9k

What I was looking for were peoples thoughts (and I did get a few) But for the most part many of you were trying to school Me. Here is a fact; we are all born a blank sheet of paper. But within the 1st 6 years we become who we are for the rest of ours lives. That said what we become is neither black nor white but someplace inbetween the (hundreds of shades of grey)


i agree that the most formative years are in the first five or six years and that youre personality beyond that point is pretty much on track for the rest of youre life.

the thing is that there are subs here who vehemently disagree that submission is a personality thing at all.  im not one of them, i personally think it is a personality trait (for some but not for all)

therefore the generic term 'sub' covers a whole gammit of different angles when it comes to submission.  so youre question is an over-generalisation of highly variable content and is therefore difficult to answer.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 4/28/2011 1:19:42 PM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to Masterand9k)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 1:22:31 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masterand9k

Here is a fact; we are all born a blank sheet of paper.


This statement is not a fact.  Studies show that genetics play an important role in personality development.  You may wish to read some academic publications before engaging in armchair psychology.


lol..., there was nothing blank about my son when he arrived - he had personality to spare!

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 1:30:43 PM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masterand9k

Here is a fact; we are all born a blank sheet of paper.


This statement is not a fact.  Studies show that genetics play an important role in personality development.  You may wish to read some academic publications before engaging in armchair psychology.


Thank you, Sylverë for pointing out what very few seem to understand. There are many, many, things that play into who each of us become as a grown person. And many of them begin before birth. Studies also show that a childs personality does not set until the age of ten years old.

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 1:31:50 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masterand9k

Here is a fact; we are all born a blank sheet of paper.


This statement is not a fact.  Studies show that genetics play an important role in personality development.  You may wish to read some academic publications before engaging in armchair psychology.



Dunno bout that all the reading Ive done shows there is a quite a debate among the scientific community re personality traits and genetics. You maybe referring to psychical traits. Highblood pressure cancers rates that type of thing. With that said the study of genetics is in its infancy. Perhaps down the road they may find a causal link between the 2. Currently the science is just not there. Just looking at my family of 4 brothers, there are dramatic differences in the way we think, talk, act.

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 4/28/2011 1:39:52 PM >

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 1:42:41 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Dude, that's one badly worded question...if she's a sub, then what does she need to learn in order to be a sub? If you mean can you train anybody to be a sub, well the answer is a resounding yes! If they can train an elephant to do a handstand and walk on its front legs...well I'd say just about anything can be taught given enough time and persistence.



Im thinking submission like dominance is more of a desire. ie you can lead a horse to water but...you can explain to them submissive traits but you can't "make" them be a submissive.

BadOne


have to agree with BadOne.

i think like someone has already said, first define what you mean by submissive -

if youre idea of submission is for a woman to accept, obey, follow and hand all authority across to their Dominant then no, you cant. the woman in question would have to be inherently sub to start with.

if youre idea of submission is to have her respond to some BDSM and mutually pleasing power exchange then yes, you can. because if its fun and doesnt challenge her too much she'll run with it, whether thats submission per se is another topic altogether.


Finally a smoking hot bitch with her head on straight... Will you marry me???

Lusting lally BadOne


_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 2:15:20 PM   
OwnedFemaleFlesh


Posts: 182
Joined: 4/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Masterand9k
Here is a fact; we are all born a blank sheet of paper. But within the 1st 6 years we become who we are for the rest of ours lives.


This is incorrect. Children are exposed to two main forms of socialisation - primary and secondary. Primary socialisation comes from our immediate family and the people we see every day, and is our main form of socialisation up to our early teens. Secondary socialisation comes from our society, culture and peer groups and takes place for the rest of our lives. People are capable of change at any age.

owned xxx


(in reply to Masterand9k)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 2:22:11 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh


quote:

ORIGINAL: Masterand9k
Here is a fact; we are all born a blank sheet of paper. But within the 1st 6 years we become who we are for the rest of ours lives.


This is incorrect. Children are exposed to two main forms of socialisation - primary and secondary. Primary socialisation comes from our immediate family and the people we see every day, and is our main form of socialisation up to our early teens. Secondary socialisation comes from our society, culture and peer groups and takes place for the rest of our lives. People are capable of change at any age.

owned xxx




I read it as at birth not as they grow up. I may have misinterpreted the statement tho.

BadOne


< Message edited by SailingBum -- 4/28/2011 2:23:18 PM >

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to OwnedFemaleFlesh)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 2:32:35 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masterand9k

Here is a fact; we are all born a blank sheet of paper.


This statement is not a fact.  Studies show that genetics play an important role in personality development.  You may wish to read some academic publications before engaging in armchair psychology.



Dunno bout that all the reading Ive done shows there is a quite a debate among the scientific community re personality traits and genetics. You maybe referring to psychical traits.


There is debate over how much of personality development is based on genetic vs. environmental factors and in what way genetic traits affect personality.  However, there is research indicating that genetic factors do have a significant influence on later personality development.  So, to claim that we are all "blank slates" at birth is inaccurate. 
 
quote:

lol..., there was nothing blank about my son when he arrived - he had personality to spare!

 
Mine too!  Heck, both of mine started displaying personalities before birth. 

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl
"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: can you teach a sub to be a sub - 4/28/2011 3:00:23 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Any mother will laugh at the op's belief that we are all born tabula rasa's. We aren't. Because children who grow up in the same home have entirely different personalities. Fraternal twins are perfect examples of this. The upbringing, family order, etc is exactly the same yet the people are not.

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Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
Profile   Post #: 40
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