Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (Full Version)

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Missokyst -> Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/8/2011 2:24:43 PM)

Recently here on CM, a woman who is fairly new to BDSM posted a question on what
dominants might do to punish their sub.

It made me take a step back... and with some consideration I posted a few
possible ideas for them to try.

Later I started to think of what it is I have I done in my own relationships. I know I seem like I am a serious person who probably doesn't have any playfulness in me at times, but for me, d/s is what allows my inner child to come out and play. Any playfulness I had as a child was kept underwraps until I felt it was safe enough to let out. If I were to peg the years I acted as a child I would say only between 1st and 5th grade as those were years I actually felt sand between my toes or dirt under my nails. Before those years it was not allowed, and after.. well.. life happened. I have learned to be self regulating, often going between being cautious and reckless in a blink of an eye. But even the reckless me was deliberately considered.

But, here is the thing, I was never disciplined. My teachers let me do what ever because I always got my work done before class was over. I had the run of the school as I went on my merry way getting other projects done. My parents never spanked me, any yelling they did was at each other, and the only time my mom ever slapped me was when I raised my voice to her (my only time) because she remarked that women who dressed a certain way, got raped and they probably deserved it. For the most part my family just went its own way.
I can say that I have felt on my own since before I was a teen.

Zoom forward a decade plus.. I was 25 when I met Steve shortly after my marriage ended. On our first major argument I walked out of a party in a bad neighborhood, determined to walk home (15 miles away). When he found me, he made me get on the motorcycle with him and we rode home.
He wasn't happy about my deliberate action and it led to a few hours of a naked me out on his porch and a sound spanking for taking the risk to walk home. He and I had a very old fashioned "man in charge" relationship, complete with spanking for bad behavior. But there was always rationale to his actions. He never demanded I obey him, he just hoped things
would go smoothly and if I was out of line he called me on it with spankings or standing me in a corner while we both cooled down.
I would say that our relationship had some punishment with the end result being that I would obey. Of course I mostly obeyed because I wanted to please him. The spankings were just a reminder for me to reconsider what was going on.

This was quite a bit different from my marriage in the years early where I was made to obey or be subject to yelling which I find intolerable.
My husband and I had a "no questions asked, just do it" type of cohabitation. I obeyed because it was easier than trying to argue.
There was never any physical punishment but we did have a lot of kinky sex.

Now, zoom forward again.
The most recent X and I had a more playful dynamic. For us it was fun, getting caught masturbating, smirking at his puns, taking a swat at him when he was not expecting it and getting my comeuppance in the end.
Ours was more of a funishment arrangement.

In fact... lol most of what I have done in the last decade or so has all been fun!
Getting tortured is fun.
Getting hauled over a sofa for a spontaneous spanking is fun.
Getting bent over and taken from behind without negotiating first is fun.

I had fun in the years before the x and I have had fun in the years since. I enjoy bdsm.

I enjoyed what I had with Steve too. The punishment dynamic seemed to fit for me at a time I felt no one cared what I did. And I will admit the sex was hotter after we resolved things with spankings.

But I did not enjoy what I had with my husband. The premise of just "obeying"
because he was the husband still rankles me to this day.

I have run the gamut from starting out as a slave who obeyed, to being a
submissive who required controlling, to.. to... what?

I enjoy bdsm. I love the physical nature of it. I love the playfulness of it. And I even enjoy making my partner happy because I am freakin in the clouds from being allowed to feel free, content and cherished in play, when so much of my
life has been about being controlled, responsible and staid.


I know I am not slave material. I hold too much resentment for things which to me, are illogical.
I am a submissive when that desire is sparked within, whether it is from his personality or my complete need to ensure he is happy enough to stay. I am definitely a masochist who relishes in banter designed to ignite a reaction.

I have been pretty lucky in my life in that I have only dated men who were kinked. It didn't take me long to discover what did not work (slavery) and what did. And thankfully I am not prone to letting other people's opinion of what I do effect my joy in doing it. lol I would suck at being a serious, always obedient, never questioning, mate. I need the playfulness in my life, regardless of how horrified people can be because for them, it is about avoiding punishment.


So, what do you enjoy?
Do you obey or expect obedience?
Do you sometimes need to feel the tug of a rein and the snap of a whip?
Do you need to control your mate or dole out pleasure or pain because it is what YOU want?
Or do you just want to wallow in pain or pleasure until gratitude spills out in to all areas of your
relationships?









LadyPact -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/8/2011 3:25:30 PM)

As much as I enjoyed your post and am very glad that you know what works for you, I'm afraid we are different.

Yes, I expect obedience.  I probably am less "fun" than some Dominants.  The playfulness that you describe above would get a tug on the leash from Me.  It's just the way I am. 

It sounds very selfish, but I do dole out pain because it's what I want.  There have been occasions where clip has brought Me a request and whether I tell him yes or no is a case by case decision.  I still have to want to do it or there's no point.

Thank you for taking the time to write the original.  I really did enjoy it.



littlewonder -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/8/2011 3:32:54 PM)

quote:

Do you obey or expect obedience?


Yes. He's extremely big on this. Simply obey and I enjoy it just as much. It just makes life so much easier for us both..no second guessing, no worries or concerns and life just runs smoother this way.
quote:


Do you sometimes need to feel the tug of a rein and the snap of a whip?


Sometimes but it's not a constant....usually when I'm just starting to feel a little insecure about myself or my place with him even though it's a stupid thought but hey, I'm human and it happens. But I never push or tease or act like a brat to get it. I just tell him how I'm feeling or he knows when I'm starting to get a little lax in things and he tightens the reins. He just seems to know when I need it and other times I don't think I need it but he's decided I do lol.

quote:

Do you need to control your mate or dole out pleasure or pain because it is what YOU want?


Me, no...I'm his slave. I control nothing lol. Now him...yeah...it's what he wants, when he wants, where he wants no matter what that is and that includes pleasure and pain.

quote:

Or do you just want to wallow in pain or pleasure until gratitude spills out in to all areas of your
relationships?


Of course, that would be nice but I'm realistic and I know there are times when he allows me to revel in it and other times when he could care less either way or doesn't want me to at all. It's part of the parcel of being with him and I'm perfectly fine with it.



frazzle -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/8/2011 4:51:57 PM)

I'm talking to someone at present who is into corporal punishment.

I maybe wrong but i feel he needs an excuse to act. he cant see that if im being hit for punishment i'm getting nothing from it.

Now if the pain is for mutual pleasure its totally different.

We've been going round the house for a week on this one and i have a feeling we are not going to meet in the middle. its a totally dif mindset.



CarpeComa -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/8/2011 6:56:33 PM)

quote:


So, what do you enjoy?
Do you obey or expect obedience?
Do you sometimes need to feel the tug of a rein and the snap of a whip?
Do you need to control your mate or dole out pleasure or pain because it is what YOU want?
Or do you just want to wallow in pain or pleasure until gratitude spills out in to all areas of your
relationships?


I enjoy a lot of things. Do I ever *need* to feel her tug against me? Absolutely not. How much tugging I will tolerate is dependent on the nature of the relationship (the tugging can be amusing at times). The more the relationship is centered around the dynamic, the less tugging I'll tolerate. Having said that, I do believe that most relationships will suffer if both people aren't having enough fun. It's generally not fun to be around someone who has a stick lodged so far up their rectum that they can't tolerate any goofing around, especially if you are around them long term.

I think I confuse a lot of people because I don't have just one mode. Much like I don't just like chocolate or vanilla, I enjoy controlling in quite a variety of styles. Under the right circumstances, I enjoy being the relaxed sort, being evil and twisted, amiable and sweet, and being a hard-ass. The questions are; what are the circumstances going to be? What is the goal of the relationship?

I generally expect obedience. Why would you be entering an authority dynamic if you were going to strive to shuck it at every turn? I understand 'testing one's limits', but at some point it stops being that and becomes 'I like to fight'. If you simply like the fight, then you should be upfront about it. That sort of person is just going to be a headache to anyone that isn't interested in a constant struggle.

Do I need control? I take a fairly draconian stance on the use of 'need'. I probably don't need it, but it is difficult for me to be happy without it. If I don't have it, I tend to feel uncomfortable and itching for it. If I am in a situation where I am denied it long enough, I tend to shut down.







Missokyst -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/8/2011 6:58:24 PM)

Yep LP,
I decided to post this because each of us has a different mindset and often I see people hooking up to the wrong cart.
I was a slave early on and learned it is not for me. And though I am serious in life, in bdsm I am still young at heart and playful. I see a lot of people saying it should be done this way, when they really mean they do it that way and that is what they know.
Having done this a variety of ways in the last 3 decades I know the most important thing is knowing yourself so that your choices are more apt to fit what you need.



Aileen1968 -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/8/2011 7:24:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
So, what do you enjoy?

I enjoy every single second of being with him.
quote:

Do you obey or expect obedience?

I obey. It's the foundation and the glue of our relationship.
quote:

Do you sometimes need to feel the tug of a rein and the snap of a whip?

I don't mentally have any preformed expectations of what he wants to do to me. The biggest thrill for me is to be able to enjoy what he wants, not what I might want.
quote:

Do you need to control your mate or dole out pleasure or pain because it is what YOU want?

He controls me and makes all decisions. Anything that occurs is because he wants it.
quote:

Or do you just want to wallow in pain or pleasure until gratitude spills out in to all areas of your
relationships?

Our relationship doesn't center around pain or pleasure. It centers around us. Our chemistry is what spills out into all areas of our relationship.
It just so happens that the way we express ourselves together sometimes includes pleasure and pain.






TreasureKY -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/8/2011 8:18:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

So, what do you enjoy?


An excellent question.  Other than peace, I wish I knew.  [:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Do you obey... ?


Honestly, I'm not sure if I do or don't.  I ask so much more of myself than he has, I couldn't say that I've faced a situation where I needed to obey or not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Do you sometimes need to feel the tug of a rein and the snap of a whip?


Metaphorically speaking, I suppose I do.  I'm not into pain, but demonstration of power just makes me weak in the knees.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Or do you just want to wallow in pain or pleasure until gratitude spills out in to all areas of your relationships?


I don't think so, but I'm not sure I understand (or relate to) the question.  Perhaps that is an indication that I don't.



hausboy -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/8/2011 8:39:35 PM)

Thanks Missokyst
I really enjoyed your post.

I love, crave and need discipline--it keeps my head clear and my sexual appetite sated.  Like you, it's funishment much more so than punishment, for all the reasons that have been debated on the two.  I don't want to be punished for something that I truly feel badly about, but I absolutely love it when it's for something that is "fair game"--something that I may have deserved, but don't internally feel bad about it.  Because of my own past, I cannot allow myself to be struck from a place of anger.  Maintenance spankings were very common in my house.

My Sir is extremely strict with me--he is a sadist, and for those times when he feels the strong need to administer a hard session (and/or I'm in need of one), it doesn't take long for him to find reasons.  There are times where it feels very real--he is scolding me, raising his voice, caning and paddling me until I'm on the verge of tears--and I have to make sure that the little voice in my head reminds me that he isn't really angry...he isn't really disappointed with me (on the contrary, he's likely very pleased)--and when he's done, he will sit me on his lap, tell me that all is forgiven, and that he knows that I can be a good boy if I apply myself.

My ex-Domme and I had a similar dynamic--there were things that I knew were "offenses" that would signal to her that I was frisky...and ways that she would let know if it was a day when she was in the mood for some fun too.  I miss that quite a bit.   I have never been a slave--I'm a domestic servant.  The distinction may be irrelevant to some but it means a world of difference to me.  And truly...it's all about the fun.



porcelaine -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/9/2011 1:11:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I would suck at being a serious, always obedient, never questioning, mate.


Greetings,

i don't believe most submissives or slaves are wired in this manner. Nonetheless i've seen more than a few attempt to adopt this mindset with varying degrees of success. In my experience there's usually some element of willfulness; especially in women that have been indoctrinated in a different philosophy concerning men. That takes a lot of time to break. Are there exceptions? Yes, but as LadyPact and i discussed on a different thread, the soil was already conducive for that form of relating. In other words, the individual has a natural affinity for these things and isn't really going against the grain so to speak.

quote:

So, what do you enjoy?


Discordia and i aren't bosom buddies. i want and need structure in order to feel comfortable in the relationship. While i derive untold pleasure from his presence, it will not thrive in mayhem or loosely run entities. He must have a method to his madness.

quote:

Do you obey or expect obedience?


i find no delight in push and pull situations where there's a constant need for discipline and atonement. Nor do i understand the functionality of being anything but obedient and how that's beneficial for both parties. It's not computable in my head and would make me horribly skittish over time. i obey because doing so makes me happy and keeps my internal self at peace. That's the first side of it. The other is related to his expectations and a need to please. Nothing is worth the knowledge that i've driven him to the point of correction or punishment not due to ignorance, but simply because my want exceeded our collective needs in the situation. That pierces me pretty horribly.

quote:

Do you sometimes need to feel the tug of a rein and the snap of a whip?


No, i liken that to a poke or prod just to see what happens. i don't need that kind of checks and balances, but it's imperative that i'm held to a standard and realigned when i'm going astray. Discipline is an important part of growth and i view it as a positive benefit to my person. But creating situations that will incite physical correction is in opposition to my thoughts on the subject. And to be honest, i have mixed feelings on funishment altogether.

i've always been taught that there was something to be gained by denial. While i agree it's important to communicate and maintain ones transparency, it's tempered and metered against selfish indulgence. There are instances when exercising patience and waiting is the appropriate response. Before i'd rush in and ask for an allotment of pain, i'd give serious consideration why it wasn't happening at present. i see lots of complaints about this subject and it baffles me. i don't expect him to move according to my tempo, and going without doesn't mean i've been forgotten or displeased him. But it may suggest that he prefers to interact differently for the time being and he's entitled to that alteration in my opinion.

quote:

Do you need to control your mate or dole out pleasure or pain because it is what YOU want?


Control is a constant and the extolling of pain is always at his discretion. i'm not entitled to it by any stretch of the word. It is through his desire and benevolence that i receive it. And i include all the instances when he is not at his best but still provides in that remark. It's easy to forget the little things when we're always saying gimme gimme gimme.

quote:

Or do you just want to wallow in pain or pleasure until gratitude spills out in to all areas of your
relationships?


If that's the requirement for the effervescent gush of gratitude that's a pretty sad state. my captivity isn't driven or motivated by continued physical gratification. Nor is it the catalyst for prostration or never-ending praise for my Keeper. It is the totality called Him that inspires these things. Having gone without in the past, i can honestly attest that i found greater joy in the simple than all the things i'd come to associate with my station. Their removal allowed me to serve without want, expectation, or physical stimulation of any sort. i never knew i could hunger for thank you or find deep seeded bliss in a pat or peck. i would come to recognize the difference between selfish motivations and those completely derived from the other person. That experience did more for me than any whipping ever would.

Namaste,

~porcelaine



Palliata -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/9/2011 7:31:17 AM)

For the most part the ideal I shoot for is complete obedience without the need for a punishment dynamic. I do like the playful "funishment" as you put it, and I don't see that as incompatible with the level of obedience I prefer. A slave can be playful and I can be playful in return, but when I issue a command I expect it followed.

Pain is definitely something that I dole out at my discretion - I greatly enjoy inflicting it, but rarely as a response to something that she does. I feel like a standard punishment dynamic (IE: Slave does something master doesn't like, master hurts slave) causes several problems. For one, it puts pain in the category of a negative, which isn't necessarily something I want - I want to be able to go through a several-hour session of slow torture and have us both enjoy it in some sense. If I equate pain with misbehavior, that's going to make my random torture sessions seem like punishment without cause, which is going to engender resentment. For two, most subs are masochists to some extent, meaning pain as punishment sits in an odd space.

That said, if things get out of hand and punishment is needed to return them to their proper order, I'm in no way closed to that, it simply needs to be beyond their pain tolerance by a significant enough amount that it acts as a firm deterrent.



porcelaine -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/9/2011 8:28:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Yes, I expect obedience.  I probably am less "fun" than some Dominants.  The playfulness that you describe above would get a tug on the leash from Me.  It's just the way I am.


i thought about this last night and i have to confess that i respect the serious types far more than their opposites. i've also found that i respond to them much better and i'm less likely to slip over to the other side in my head. While i don't think there's anything wrong with having fun, this is where the merits of protocol come into place and make a striking difference. And it's very noticeable from afar when a lot of leash is granted. There's little things that give it away that i observe all the time. However, the consistency from those that walk the line and its etchings on their countenance is worth the reduction in "entertainment" in my opinion. It produces something worth emulating.

Namaste,

~porcelaine



DesFIP -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/9/2011 8:42:22 AM)

Obedience is not the top priority here, emotional transparency is. If obeying no matter what will cause resentment, then I'm supposed to tell him first and we solve the problem.



Missokyst -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/9/2011 8:56:49 AM)

So far all very interesting responses, thanks all!
As for me, since coming from a childhood with no caps, to sudden serious adulthood at 12 and later full out slavery with my husband (he leaned toward fundamentalism), my life has been a rollercoaster of change.
I have run myself long enough to know what would work in my life and someone who tends toward protocals, and complete obedience is not for me.
But, I have and still do enjoy it when my mate takes charge. It makes me feel secure. If I have chosen him to be my mate (and this is a HUGE step), then I trust him to make decisions. However for me it can't be constant "Me Boss, you staff" mentality. I want to know that he takes my imput as a valuable resource.
Since my divorce having someone totally in charge makes me break out in hives. lol he was really a crappy leader.
I do agree though, someone who was completely for fun is not my cup of tea either. I like them casually, but for me, it feels as though they don't care about me. I date these men casually and it does not go further.

I wish people would get to know themselves before jumping into relationships. Maybe not so well as I know me (they might go running!), but enough to know what style appeals to them.



DesFIP -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/9/2011 5:58:30 PM)

I need to have input. I need to be heard and validated. I don't need to be in charge. But I need him to be an excellent decision maker. Thankfully he is.



NorthernGent -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/10/2011 2:04:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I hold too much resentment for things which to me, are illogical.



Yes. It is one of my failings that I stand by my personal values and principles at all costs and find little value in what to me seems illogical. I do this as a matter of course, without even thinking.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

So, what do you enjoy?
Do you obey or expect obedience?
Do you sometimes need to feel the tug of a rein and the snap of a whip?
Do you need to control your mate or dole out pleasure or pain because it is what YOU want?
Or do you just want to wallow in pain or pleasure until gratitude spills out in to all areas of your
relationships?



I take no pleasure in 'control' for the sake of it.

There has to be an intimate, meaningful relationship to make it worth my time.

And, yes, I like a bit of fun. I orientate towards more mischevious women - I find that an endearing characteristic. Of course, there is a limit to my patience. But, this remains obedience to my principle of what a relationship should be.

Edited to add:

By nature, I suppose I'm one of those who is flexible and open to possibilities. I take pleasure in supporting people, and this is a core part of my relationships (control for the sake of it doesn't work for me, I need something to work towards, some sort of personal development and development of my partner - I'm orientated towards future possibilities as opposed to present realities); although at the same time I am tough minded when I need to be and can and do enjoy administering punishment, which for me can't simply be a smack on the arse, it has to be something more extreme in order to cement the relationship as personal and meaningful.



Termyn8or -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/10/2011 2:51:30 AM)

You want a sub look elswhere, or maybe not. I'll bottom but I will be the most incorrigible son of a bitch you could ever imagine. I will fuck with you as much tied up as tied down, or not even tied.

Fucking try it. I dare ya.

T^T



DomImus -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/10/2011 6:35:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
Do you need to control your mate or dole out pleasure or pain because it is what YOU want?


I have to enjoy what I am doing to be able to do it. The interesting twist here is that the enjoyment is more important than the action I am undertaking. Let me explain further. There are activities that I really enjoy. Fortunately, these are activities that most submissives types do not enjoy and that is where I derive my enjoyment - in the fact that they don't enjoy it. What the particular activity is is almost an afterthought. It's her dislike of it that is the turn-on.

If I were unattached and meeting new playmates... let's say I met someone and through the course of discussion I find out that she just flat out hates X. Now, historically X might be something that holds no particular interest to me or maybe even bores me. Flogging would be a good example. Bores me to tears as most impact play does. I own a few floggers I have made but mostly just for the sake of saying that I made and own a few floggers. If I had a new playmate who just absolutely hated being flogged - I mean really disliked it - that would rise to the top of my short list of favorite activities with her. I would get to know the person and focus on those things they really despise.

If it's punishment, it should be punishment. Punishing someone who gets off on being spanked with a spanking is pointless - that's "funishment". Punishment should be something that they really hate. If I dig it, that's just icing on the cake. If I really dig it it may constitute punishment when needed and then be doled out as I pleased when not needed. That's the really fun part.





Termyn8or -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/10/2011 7:20:52 AM)

You are about an evil MF. Wanna have a beer ?

T^T



Missokyst -> RE: Funishment, punishment, or damn it just obey! (4/10/2011 8:36:47 AM)

There has to be an intimate, meaningful relationship to make it worth my time.

And, yes, I like a bit of fun. I orientate towards more mischevious women - I find that an endearing characteristic. Of course, there is a limit to my patience. But, this remains obedience to my principle of what a relationship should be.
Gent,

This has been my preference as well. The most successful pairings I have had were with men who enjoyed playfulness, but were able to flip that switch in me that says "enough". I have had no problem obeying if the man I am with can embrace both sides of my personality, childlike and serious.




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