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Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/4/2011 12:46:52 PM   
Kirata


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With the old dictator gone, the new one is preparing to move in...

Officials of the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt's leading Islamic group, have called for the establishment of a Saudi-style modesty police to combat "immoral" behavior in public... On the street level, at least 20 attacks were perpetrated against the tombs of Muslim mystics (suffis), who are the subject of popular veneration but disparaged by Islamic fundamentalists, or salafis...

Sa'id Abd Al-Azim, a leader of the salafi movement in Alexandria, attacked Egyptian "liberals" for waging a media campaign against his movement. "Despite the attacks against the salafi movement, it is constantly advancing – untouched by the attack," Abd Al-Azim told Al-Masry Al-Youm. "If the Christians want safety they should submit to the rule of God and be confident that the Islamic sharia [law] will protect them."

Good luck to the Copts and moderate Muslims.

K.
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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/4/2011 1:05:13 PM   
ashjor911


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Status: offline 		Abd Al-Azim speaks for himself only
In Islam there is no rich & poor, white & black, they all stand next to each other in one line in the prayer,
all muslims are brothers & sisters In Islam,
making a political movment based on an Islamic rule is just wrong.
If I remember right Al-Masry Al-Youm is their own news paper so he can tell them whatever he wants.
What all of that has to do with the Title???

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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/4/2011 3:36:59 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

Abd Al-Azim speaks for himself only

He doesn't think so... and neither do I.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

all muslims are brothers & sisters In Islam,

I suggest you run a search for "muslims killing muslims" (sit down first).

quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

What all of that has to do with the Title???

Who do you suppose "the rule of God" refers to?

K.

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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/4/2011 3:39:53 PM   
Sanity


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Sounds like a Taliban style dictatorship, I only hope they dont start destroying the pyramids and all the other ancient relics of Egypt.


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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/4/2011 3:45:04 PM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		Just yesterday I was speaking to an Egyptian who said that the Copts hierarchy would prefer Sharia law because they are treated differently than if there were strictly civil law. In that way the Copt hierarchy would be able to keep more hold over their congregants. For example in civil law, divorce would be a lot easier.
I was also told that found records from the police and Egyptian Intel services are revealing that it was policy to create dissent between all the factions of the citizenry. It's easier to divide and conquer that way.

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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/4/2011 7:24:34 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

Kirata
With the old dictator gone, the new one is preparing to move in...

Officials of the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt's leading Islamic group, have called for the establishment of a Saudi-style modesty police to combat "immoral" behavior in public... On the street level, at least 20 attacks were perpetrated against the tombs of Muslim mystics (suffis), who are the subject of popular veneration but disparaged by Islamic fundamentalists, or salafis...

Sa'id Abd Al-Azim, a leader of the salafi movement in Alexandria, attacked Egyptian "liberals" for waging a media campaign against his movement. "Despite the attacks against the salafi movement, it is constantly advancing – untouched by the attack," Abd Al-Azim told Al-Masry Al-Youm. "If the Christians want safety they should submit to the rule of God and be confident that the Islamic sharia [law] will protect them."

All the statements and signs I have seen in Egypt indicate slow movement towards adoption of democracy and elected leaders.

In any democracy there is a plurality of views. In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood is one of many perspectives. We should expect to see such views promoted, in much the same way as the WBC's Phelps' and other Christian fundamentalists are free to express themselves in the West.

In fact we should be glad such views are being promoted in democratic ways rather than some of the other methods adopted by Islamists elsewhere. I'm not sure I understand why single statement from the MB is being held up for examination and discussion - as though it is somehow representative or telling - and all the other moves and statements towards democracy in Egypt ignored.

To me, Egyptians have managed the overthrow of a dictator and the transition to democracy intelligently and by and large peacefully to date. I see no reason to change or re-consider this assessment on the basis of a predictable claims from one interested party.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 4/4/2011 7:27:49 PM >

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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/4/2011 8:38:58 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

I'm not sure I understand why single statement from the MB is being held up for examination and discussion - as though it is somehow representative or telling - and all the other moves and statements towards democracy in Egypt ignored.

And why, precisely, do you imagine that a "single statement" is being held up for examination and discussion? Do I have to post the entire fucking article, and every other press report in a similar vein, in order for you to catch on that the subject is signs of a tilt toward Islamist control of the country?

Or was that just a ploy to dismiss consideration of the issue, by writing it off as a "single statement"? Silly question, I know. Here's a couple more. Why is the military junta silent while Sufi tombs are being desecrated and Copts attacked? Why is Egypt's foreign minister cuddling up to Iran?

K.

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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/4/2011 9:15:58 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata



And why, precisely, do you imagine that a "single statement" is being held up for examination and discussion? Do I have to post the entire fucking article, and every other press report in a similar vein, in order for you to catch on that the subject is signs of a tilt toward Islamist control of the country?

Or was that just a ploy to dismiss consideration of the issue, by writing it off as a "single statement"? Silly question, I know. Here's a couple more. Why is the military junta silent while Sufi tombs are being desecrated and Copts attacked? Why is Egypt's foreign minister cuddling up to Iran?

K.

Personally I am rather tired of all these so-called warning signals. Often they reflect not a reality in the Middle East but the paranoia of people who only seem able to understand the area in terms of 'moderate' versus 'extremist' Muslims, and make no attempt to understand the region on its own terms.

The red flag of extremism hasn't stopped anyone doing business with Saudi Arabia, with its religious police, fatwas against democratic expression and a State-sponsored version of Islam, Wahabi-ism that is about as extreme as any theocracy could be. Last I heard it was a prime ally of US.

The other day you asked me to take seriously a claim by some obscure nobody that Australia would "inevitably" become a Muslim country, probably by "force". I mean get real! If you want to be taken seriously, make a serious point.

For example, Egypt has every right to maintain normal relations with Iran if it chooses. Iran is part of the neighbourhood, something the West is not. That is not the West's legitimate business. Perhaps you might ask yourself; why does Russia, China and India seem to be able to get along with Iran but the US can't? Hint: the answer has nothing to do human rights, democracy or apple pie.

It's up to Egyptians to work out their own future. Not up to Westerners to pronounce judgements on the basis of very dubious self-serving criteria. If you're interested in genuinely helping, support the democratic process there. Trying to find a slightly more objective source of information than the JPost might be a good start. Something truthful for instance.

Panicking at faintest whiff of opposition, parroting Israeli propaganda or trying to involve Egypt in the US's power games with Iran is not helpful.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 4/4/2011 9:22:46 PM >

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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/4/2011 10:05:53 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

they reflect not a reality in the Middle East but the paranoia of people who only seem able to understand the area in terms of 'moderate' versus 'extremist' Muslims, and make no attempt to understand the region on its own terms.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, and as far as I can tell from your post neither do you. But it does sounds intelligent, doesn't it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The red flag of extremism hasn't stopped anyone doing business with Saudi Arabia, with its religious police, fatwas against democratic expression and a State-sponsored version of Islam, Wahabi-ism that is about as extreme as any theocracy could be. Last I heard it was a prime ally of US.

The internal policies of a muslim state are not the issue, but it works nicely as a straw man. Good luck with that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The other day you asked me to take seriously a claim by some obscure nobody that Australia would "inevitably" become a Muslim country, probably by "force". I mean get real! If you want to be taken seriously, make a serious point.

The other day I pointed out to you the stated goal of the forces of radical Islam in Australia. Period. If you want to be taken seriously, don't misrepresent what people say. I am perfectly aware that the only things you take seriously are your own opinions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Egypt has every right to maintain normal relations with Iran if it chooses.

And you'll be happy to link to where someone said otherwise, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

If you're interested in genuinely helping, support the democratic process there.

I don't support democracy anywhere, absent a secular constitution that insures basic freedoms, and in my opinion anybody who wanders around strewing flowers while singing "democracy" is a fucking idiot.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Trying to find a slightly more objective source of information than the JPost might be a good start. Something truthful for instance...

Yes, there's the real problem. I knew that quoting a Jewish source would get you, but I like watching fish take bait.

K.

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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/4/2011 10:43:18 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

Kirata
Do I have to post the entire fucking article, and every other press report in a similar vein, in order for you to catch on that the subject is signs of a tilt toward Islamist control of the country?


quote:

Kirata
The internal policies of a muslim state are not the issue, but it works nicely as a straw man. Good luck with that.


You really need to figure out what you are talking about. Do come back when you do.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 4/4/2011 10:45:56 PM >

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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/5/2011 6:10:50 AM   
ashjor911


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Status: offline 		Supreme Council of the Egyptian armed forces of the incumbent power in Egypt now declares that it would not hand over the country to another Khomeini.
The sense that it would not hand over the country to the religious extremists


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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/5/2011 6:41:46 AM   
truckinslave


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Status: offline 		Good luck to Israel. And us. And the world.

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/5/2011 6:44:34 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

Just yesterday I was speaking to an Egyptian who said that the Copts hierarchy would prefer Sharia law


Any chance your Egyptian was a Muslim?
Some of the slaveholders in the South said the darkies were happy in their chains, too....

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/5/2011 6:45:54 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

WBC's Phelps' and other Christian fundamentalists are free to express themselves in the West.


I haven't seen their "expression" promoted by means of a separate police force.....

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/5/2011 7:57:12 AM   
Sanity


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And court system...

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

WBC's Phelps' and other Christian fundamentalists are free to express themselves in the West.


I haven't seen their "expression" promoted by means of a separate police force.....


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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/5/2011 8:37:36 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


And court system...

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

WBC's Phelps' and other Christian fundamentalists are free to express themselves in the West.


I haven't seen their "expression" promoted by means of a separate police force.....



Then you boys have missed alotta news and court cases and just about everything over your lives............. 

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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/5/2011 10:59:20 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

You really need to figure out what you are talking about. Do come back when you do.

Actually, you need to figure out what I'm talking about.

There is a difference between an Islamic state, and the situation that arises if radical Islamist groups gain control of national governments. Radical Islam is a pan-national movement with a very unpleasant agenda.

K.

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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/5/2011 11:01:33 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

Supreme Council of the Egyptian armed forces of the incumbent power in Egypt now declares that it would not hand over the country to another Khomeini... The sense that it would not hand over the country to the religious extremists.

That would be a very reassuring declaration, and I hope you're right. Thank you.

K.

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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/5/2011 5:20:54 PM   
SupremeDom


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Status: offline 		The title is misleading... 

It seems al-qaeda are in charge now; they pull the strings from the shadows.

So what should we do?
Carry korans in the Middle East, maybe they would think twice before blowing shit up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

Supreme Council of the Egyptian armed forces of the incumbent power in Egypt now declares that it would not hand over the country to another Khomeini... The sense that it would not hand over the country to the religious extremists.


Thank you.



< Message edited by SupremeDom -- 4/5/2011 5:23:59 PM >

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RE: Mubarak exchanged for Allah - 4/5/2011 6:54:24 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		Bullshit,cite some source for this assertion.


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