Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: * ECONOMY * TAXES S

Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: * ECONOMY * TAXES S (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 11:52:01 AM)
Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY TAXES State senators approved a bill that would impose a $100 annual fee on electric cars to recover lost gas tax revenue. Trying to avoid buying the right things? We'll tax you for them anyway!

flcouple2009 -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 12:00:46 PM)
That's not new Hunkie. It's been discussed for awhile. Here is a question for you. Where does the federal gas tax go?

FullCircle -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 12:08:46 PM)
5% Fixing the roads. 95% mental healthcare costs in Pennsylvania.

pahunkboy -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 12:26:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flcouple2009 That's not new Hunkie. It's been discussed for awhile. Here is a question for you. Where does the federal gas tax go? The folly is the electric cars will be cheaper. However home electric costs have nearly doubled in the past few years. With more on the way. When I pay my electric bill I pay a host of taxes for that. Fed, state, excise. // on the flip side a flat $50 would be good in that- it delays metered driving- where every road is a toll road and time- peak vs off peak. The goal is metered driving.

flcouple2009 -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 12:39:49 PM)
You didn't answer the question Hunkie.

pahunkboy -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 1:01:30 PM)
It goes into a trust fund for the roads. PA and IL scored big the last time it paid out. road tax- tho- comes from tires, tags. tolls, property taxes, surcharges, sales tax, and income taxes. You could add in excise tax. Consider tho- that when they build a road in Germany it lasts- but not here- every 4 years=- they have to redo them here. When they could build them to last- in the first place. The whole energy question is muddied by the repression of nickily tessla. Standard oil- GM- killed street cars, and the electric car- as well as mass transit. Even in the past 20 years- trains dismantled- rails to trails scam- when other countries are building high speed rail.

DomKen -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 1:08:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy The folly is the electric cars will be cheaper. However home electric costs have nearly doubled in the past few years. With more on the way. You have no idea what you're talking about. The operating costs of my plug in prius are way below those of a standard gas car and that includes my having to rent a garage for the prius.

flcouple2009 -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 1:15:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy It goes into a trust fund for the roads. PA and IL scored big the last time it paid out. road tax- tho- comes from tires, tags. tolls, property taxes, surcharges, sales tax, and income taxes. You could add in excise tax. Consider tho- that when they build a road in Germany it lasts- but not here- every 4 years=- they have to redo them here. When they could build them to last- in the first place. The whole energy question is muddied by the repression of nickily tessla. Standard oil- GM- killed street cars, and the electric car- as well as mass transit. Even in the past 20 years- trains dismantled- rails to trails scam- when other countries are building high speed rail. So if your driving an electric car what are you not contributing to? It really is that simple Hunkie. You want the roads maintained and built? If your not buying gas then it becomes on the vehicle.

Termyn8or -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 1:35:02 PM)
"The operating costs of my plug in prius are way below those of a standard gas car and that includes my having to rent a garage for the prius. " I, and possibly others would like to know more about that. You really have one of them eh ? You know you can go to a million websites but nothing compares to an actual detail by someone who actually owns one. These possibilities must be considered so, how is it ? First of all it is a foregone conclusion that there are replenishables, brake pads, washer fluid, all that. But there would be no oil changes I would guess. But what about acceleration ? I mean around here people don't let you on the highway like nice normal people should. Is it a 12 volt system ? Separate from the motor or not ? And longevity, this is the big one. How long will it last vs a regular car ? The resources used to build something must also be taken into account. Just askin, how is it ? And if I were thrity years newer, can you fit a decent pair of speakers in it ? Can you screw in the back seat ? You won't get this kind of stuff on the internet, well maybe here. T^T

DomKen -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 1:40:40 PM)
I bought a standard prius and a kit to convert it to plug in. It really was pretty simple, a long cord for plugging into a standard outlet and a box, voltage regulator I assume, that hooked directly into the existing charging system. I went from getting about 55 MPG to averaging around 100 in the city. On long drives the average obviously drops back down to 55 once the initial charge is gone.

RapierFugue -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 1:43:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I bought a standard prius and a kit to convert it to plug in. It really was pretty simple, a long cord for plugging into a standard outlet and a box, voltage regulator I assume, that hooked directly into the existing charging system. I went from getting about 55 MPG to averaging around 100 in the city. On long drives the average obviously drops back down to 55 once the initial charge is gone. What range does it give on electric alone? Only I've seen some fairly scary figures for how short a distance it can move without recourse to internal combustion.

DomKen -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 1:54:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I bought a standard prius and a kit to convert it to plug in. It really was pretty simple, a long cord for plugging into a standard outlet and a box, voltage regulator I assume, that hooked directly into the existing charging system. I went from getting about 55 MPG to averaging around 100 in the city. On long drives the average obviously drops back down to 55 once the initial charge is gone. What range does it give on electric alone? Only I've seen some fairly scary figures for how short a distance it can move without recourse to internal combustion. Around 10 to 15 miles on a full charge befoe the engine cuts in automatically, at city speeds on flat ground.

RapierFugue -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 2:19:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Around 10 to 15 miles on a full charge befoe the engine cuts in automatically, at city speeds on flat ground. Ah right. Fuck all use then, especially considering the inefficiency of the process used to generate the electricity in the first place. Still, it's an interesting technological challenge, and results can only improve as the technology improves. I also feel the Prius and its ilk are at a disadvantage when compared to electric-only cars, in the UK at least. Here, electric-only vehicles are exempt from Type Approval (the complex and expensive safety tests that have to be done before a car can go on sale), so you get the somewhat comical result that a Prius can get a 4 or 5 star Euro NCAP rating (very good to excellent, for passenger safety), whereas a Gee Whizz (a dreadful, plug-in only go-kart) has all the crash protection of a wet paper bag, and yet is legit to sell because it's "good for the environment". Well firstly, no it isn't, but secondly, good for the planet's fuck-all use if you're stone dead the first time you run over a hedgehog. I also like Toyota's tactic of making a hybrid version of every car in their range; I drove an RX400 Lexus recently and was very impressed; the quiet nature of the electric motors gave a very refined feel to the ride/cabin, and instead of the usual 15-18 mpg a big petrol 4x4 gets it was managing 26+, on petrol, and much more when babied. Electric-only is a technological dead-end, and only there to boost marketing; the recycling and production effects are bad enough without considering the "refuelling" time - hybrid and hydrogen cell are definitely more appealing, at present at least. But it does make one wonder how good hybrid cars could be in, say, 10 or 20 years.

DomKen -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 2:29:38 PM)
10 to 15 miles was most of my daily commute before I got sick so it was really ideal for me. I could do almost all of my driving in EV mode and still was able to go outside that range when I needed to.

RapierFugue -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 3:03:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen 10 to 15 miles was most of my daily commute before I got sick so it was really ideal for me. I could do almost all of my driving in EV mode and still was able to go outside that range when I needed to. Oh agreed if it fits your journey profile then yeah, fine. For most though it's just not quite there yet. But comparing latest efforts with early hybrids, they've really made some progress, and I speak as a confirmed petrolhead. Now the US just needs to quadruple its petrol prices to European levels and maybe a few more folk will give it a go. Hey, a man can dream :)

RapierFugue -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 3:10:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen 10 to 15 miles was most of my daily commute before I got sick so it was really ideal for me. I could do almost all of my driving in EV mode and still was able to go outside that range when I needed to. BTW that's an amazingly delicate right foot you're got there - every "real-world" (i.e. tested, not claimed) range says the plug-in has a range of 7 or 8 miles, tops. But then that's the beauty of a hybrid; if you don't make it, you've still got something else to rely on (i.e. an internal combustion engine), so it's not a drama ... you can complete your journey, and even reclaim some energy through hybrid conversion technology while doing so. BTW where has hydrogen cell got to over there? 3-4 years ago it was going to be "commonplace" in Ca. by now, and "in deployment" everywhere else - has that come to pass, or is it still a limited number of outlets in any given area? Or none at all?

DomKen -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 4:27:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen 10 to 15 miles was most of my daily commute before I got sick so it was really ideal for me. I could do almost all of my driving in EV mode and still was able to go outside that range when I needed to. BTW that's an amazingly delicate right foot you're got there - every "real-world" (i.e. tested, not claimed) range says the plug-in has a range of 7 or 8 miles, tops. I did almost all of my driving on city surface streets at rush hour so it was pretty rare to get the car up to even 20mph and I did get into the habit of coasting to a stop as often as possible to maximize the energy returned from the braking. quote: But then that's the beauty of a hybrid; if you don't make it, you've still got something else to rely on (i.e. an internal combustion engine), so it's not a drama ... you can complete your journey, and even reclaim some energy through hybrid conversion technology while doing so. BTW where has hydrogen cell got to over there? 3-4 years ago it was going to be "commonplace" in Ca. by now, and "in deployment" everywhere else - has that come to pass, or is it still a limited number of outlets in any given area? Or none at all? I've never seen a hydrogen filling station and do not know of any vehicles available fo sale to the general public. IIRC Chicago had a few hydrogen fuel cell vehicles for a while but I haven't seen one in a while.

Termyn8or -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 8:21:37 PM)
"I did almost all of my driving on city surface streets at rush hour so it was pretty rare to get the car up to even 20mph and " And that is another important factor. An internal combustion engine must either idle or start too frequently. An electric motor does not suffer this limitation. You might not think idling is much of anything on your daily commute to work on the parking lot they call a highway, but do some math. Five lanes wide, cars are how many feet long ? How many BTU and how much CO2 from each car sitting there idling for an hour or more. Miles of it. So you basically plug your car in at night instead of going to a gas station,, and mentioned a garage, which makes sense. Do you get a separate electric bill for that ? If so that is a perfect way to compare. In other words, what if my electric bill doubled or tripled, but I would not have to buy gas. And taxing electric cars ? Bullshit, they still use tires. Remember the federal exise tax on tires, where was tht money supposed to go? And where did it go ? That's one thing alot of people miss - they are actually taxing the taxes. T^T

rulemylife -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/2/2011 9:38:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I bought a standard prius and a kit to convert it to plug in. It really was pretty simple, a long cord for plugging into a standard outlet and a box, voltage regulator I assume, that hooked directly into the existing charging system. I went from getting about 55 MPG to averaging around 100 in the city. On long drives the average obviously drops back down to 55 once the initial charge is gone. Don't this personally DK but I just couldn't resist. [sm=insane.gif] Come on, People Now Smug Alert

RapierFugue -> RE: Possible New Annual Fee For Electric Car Drivers By: bLaKouT Tags: ECONOMY * TAXES S* (4/3/2011 12:51:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or So you basically plug your car in at night instead of going to a gas station,, and mentioned a garage, which makes sense. Do you get a separate electric bill for that ? If so that is a perfect way to compare. In other words, what if my electric bill doubled or tripled, but I would not have to buy gas. You can even go one better in the UK ... the government has installed a network (not huge, but growing) of public "fast charge" points/stations, where one can recharge an average "plug-in" car to about 75% of maximum capacity in about half an hour (they're high amperage points and use a more butch charging cable) - you pay a very modest annual fee (£50) and in return you get a swipe card to allow access (so pikeys can't recharge their caravan batteries) and all the electricity from then on is free. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-12925417 That article's about just one area's scheme, but there are many springing up as part of a coordinated government attempt to provide a national network of fast-charge points. Here's another: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8535556.stm The hope is that, much as with the early ham radio masts becoming mobile phone installations across the US, that subsidising a series of local initiatives will lead to a national network, as more and more local clusters of charging points come on-stream. You can even download a POI list for your sat nav that will show you the nearest ones, and navigate you to them. A BBC journo recently drove from London to Newcastle, using only charging station electricity - it took him 2 days instead of 7 hours, but it's actually do-able, which it wouldn't have been even 3 years ago. Again, I don't see electric-only cars as ever becoming a solution, at least not for as long as battery life/range is such an issue, not to mention the environmental impact of battery production, recycling, and disposal, but as hybrid designs become more refined it is certainly possible that, say, the electric portion of their mileage could rise to such an extent that their dependence on fossil fuels could become negligible. What drives all this is demand, and what drives demand is petrol prices; for as long as the US persists in the myth it can cheerfully maintain cheap gas prices, effectively funded by national debt, then alternatives will remain very small, niche solutions. As soon as gas prices rise, the alternatives become not just more appealing to individual motorists, but encourage government to sponsor schemes that support hybrid and electric-assisted vehicles. Then all you have to worry about is where you get your electricity from :)

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