stellauk
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Okay, I'm keeping an open mind here..
quote:
ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
It's not being dismissed because it cannot be correct. It's being dismissed because it is not logical. Generalities, when spoken, are specifically discussing an expansive breadth of examples that encompasses an extremely wide populace. Personal experience goes out the window at that point (even in instances where the individual has many personal experiences to go on because, even then, the sample size is far too small. Unless we're talking about sex with women and you're Wilt Chamberlain, perhaps).
Okay, so I am with you on the rebuttal not being logical. I'm just having a problem with the rest, assuming that the basis of what we are discussing here is that initial premise in the OP.
The problem I have is that it appears to me that what you are saying is that the personal experience of the many - for marriage is a concrete event which is experienced, it's black and white, you are either married or you're not - is acceptable, but the individual personal experience of one person is not. The original premise is a principle deducted from many numerous personal experiences, is it not?
What's the difference? Quantity alone?
quote:
ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellauk
All arguments, whether they are presented in generalities (deductive reasoning) or specific examples (inductive reasoning) involve personal projection for they are opinions presented from the perspective of the poster.
Not at all. Or, if that is typically the case, it shouldn't be (if we are holding to any moderate intellectual standard). My premise, for instance, was not based on mere personal observation, but on factual, objective information. This, of course, is assuming that people take the time to verify their generalities before they speak them.
But even if the generalities are not correct, personal information is not the way to address that point because that reasoning itself is completely flawed.
Yes, but that factual, objective information is based on a principle gathered from many different instances of the same personal experience, i.e. getting married. To me it doesn't matter if it is just one couple getting married or five million couples getting married, the fundamental experience is the same, i.e. getting married. Marriage involves the signing of some sort of licence and recording into public records. Therefore the information presented is indeed factual. But it is not possible for those statistics to exist without people going through the experience of marriage, correct?
I'm struggling to understand here why you don't perceive the personal experience of someone as valid when it is the same experience which generated those statistics on which you base your original premise.
Also if you are personally involved in an experience, i.e. a wedding, it is not the same as an observation, even if you are one of the guests. It is an entirely different perspective from that of say, a passer by who witnesses the ceremony from across the street. The passer by is not involved in the ceremony, and therefore it is a case of personal observation. But to be one of the parties getting married or a guest requires involvement and in my opinion presenting that information as personal experience is entirely valid.
That saying I do agree with you that it is important to verify your generalities and to examine the logic and reasoning behind them before presenting them but the thinking involved in this process is entirely individual, based on individual perception and knowledge.
On any given subject there is usually more than one argument and it is the process of finding that argument and being able to construct it in ethical and logical terms which makes it an intellectual discussion, not the acquisition of the knowledge itself.
quote:
ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellauk
It does not matter whether it is the objective presentation of fact (i.e. drawn from personal experience) or the subjective presentation of an opinion, it still involves logic and reasoning, and is still a valid argument
Examples wrought "from personal experience" are not objective at all, however. They are neither logical or valid, except by sheer accident (although statistically, it could be said that popular opinion on topics has a greater potential to be based on fact than folly...but then you have things like the 10% myth. An 'argumentum ad populum' is a logical fallacy for a reason).
Now here, assuming the basis of what we are discussing is that original generality of marriage, is where you have lost me.
How can the experience of getting married be seen as subjective? Is a marriage not a contract between two people who wish to gain official recognition for their relationship?
I still say dismissing the individual personal experience in favour of the same experience compiled collectively to generate the same factual statistics on which you base your premise is the fallacy. But then on the other hand it also illustrates the validity of drawing on personal experience as a basis for logical reasoning.
BTW, unconnected, you take brilliant photographs.
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