Differences in perception, reaction (Full Version)

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Missokyst -> Differences in perception, reaction (3/9/2011 4:20:45 PM)

I get a bit annoyed at the posts that suggest things are one true way, so this is a rant.

I am a masochist. And I have been a cutter in my life. I never found that to be a bad thing, though it is secretive because people believe its nuts. I say it is a matter of degree. I think smoking is repellant, so is taking drugs, and drinking but I am not going to call someone nuts for overindulging, or indulging at all.

Over on one thread we have people reacting with horror because some kid got a note stapled to their shirt. It runs from people on one side saying the parents are at fault, to the other insisting the teacher was wrong. We have people who have had that and yet they have no emotional scars.. and others that have had similar situations who are scarred for life.

There are some people for whom rough sex is a hot button because it can feel like rape. And some that enjoy that even though they have been raped.

We all perceive things through the color of the lens that life dealt us. Some people survived and moved beyond, others could not.

I have been a survivor in my life. Molestation, rape, betrayal, masochism, even a bit of sadism thrown in, for me that is just experience.

Everyones level of tolerance is different,
end of rant




DesFIP -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/9/2011 4:26:29 PM)

Absolutely. And those who have been scarred by such incidents are entitled to be upset when told they need to toughen up.


I think it's great if someone else can handle humiliation and degradation. It doesn't mean that I'm not a twue sub because I can't.
Despite the fact that I've been told that numerous times by people who aren't in a relationship with me. And don't understand that one of the reasons nobody is in a relationship with them is just this attitude.



FukinTroll -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/9/2011 4:29:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Despite the fact that I've been told that numerous times by people who aren't in a relationship with me.



And there you have it.

I am a proponent of the one true way... that being my way for anyone involved with me. Just as you and yours have your one true way, that is true for you.
SLURP~

Edited cuz ima goofy troll.



slaveluci -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/9/2011 5:05:37 PM)

Very interesting post, Missokyst, and I totally agree. I too have dealt with molestation, domestic violence, drug abuse, incarceration and all kinds of other rotten things. I do not feel at all traumatized by them. Would I change some things? Sure, but I haven't let the thought of that become an obsession. I am who I am today because of everything that has happened and everything I have chosen - both good and bad.

It's not something I ever discuss with anybody but Master but I personally feel that rape does not have to traumatize someone. Sure, it can and often does but it's not a requirement. So often when you hear something about a rape, it's presented as if the victim has no choice but to be traumatized. This has to be the worst thing that has ever happened and she'll never get over it, they say. I personally disagree. In MY personal experience, this is totally not true for me.

It's amazing how differently people see the same event. Everyone is entitled to his/her take on things and should deal with them however is best for him/her. I just hate it when it's assumed that if X happens, that MUST mean Y in the way of reaction/damage/after effects, etc. Not necessarily so.............luci



LillyBoPeep -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/9/2011 5:22:43 PM)

if you're referring to that thread, i don't think anybody said anyone was nuts, we merely elaborated on our own motivations.
sometimes people on message boards need to stop taking other people's opinions personally, because their opinions are only personal to them. i moderate a group on fetlife, and we were having a lot of people getting upset over other people's posts, and one of my suggestions was to avoid over-personalizing someone else's problems. like if someone's in a poly relationship that's failing, avoid taking that as a critique on the whole universe of poly.
likewise, if i, as a former cutter, who also experienced molestation, and abuse, and bullying, and and and -- if i say "this is why i don't believe it's good, this is why i did it and stopped," that is in no way a critique on why someone else does it.

a person's perception is their own brand of reality. reality is so totally subjective because we can never experience it without our own lenses of bias. but we share our realities with others and sometimes we learn from each other, sometimes we don't. people experience everything differently; one person's beguiling masterpiece is another person's absolute trainwreck. simple fact of life, but we should all learn to leave latitude for the unique experiences we each have, even if the impetus for that experience isn't unique at all.



Missokyst -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/9/2011 5:33:40 PM)

lol oh try looking up cutting on a search, trust me you will find lots of people saying sick, nuts, needs counseling ect.
I am more than familar with the pattern. The point is not everyone has the reaction we are "supposed" to feel. I never felt shame from cutting, UNTIL I saw it on the net and people said I must be sick. It took me a year to come to the idea that we all process things differently. What people see are the extremes.
I do think smoking is sick and unhealthy. I do think drinking everyday is bad for your body. I never thought cutting was harmful to me and it probably kept me from busting more heads. How a person sees things is the difference. You might have thought of your self harm as detrimental to your psyche.. I saw it as not engaging in a fight when I was not capable of reeling it in.
My problem is with the over generalization that we all must see trauma in the same way.
Like Luci I see my life as survival training. Without it I might not be the woman I am today.


Oh and I would not have been horrified, humilated, ect by being sent home with a note stapled to my dress. I was slightly irked when the nuns called my mom because I would not stay in the designated play area. But, faced with mom.. I opted to keep to the rules.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/9/2011 5:41:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

My problem is with the over generalization that we all must see trauma in the same way.
Like Luci I see my life as survival training. Without it I might not be the woman I am today.



that makes sense, yeah. but sometimes when you're so adamant that other people are overgeneralizing, you're generalizing them as generalizers. =p my feeling about self-harm is no less valid than yours, simply because my feeling happens to line up with some "common" opinion. one action can have all sorts of different motivations (which is what i was trying to get at) -- 5 people can cut, and have 5 different reasons why. but no reason is more or less valid than any other.

i see my life as survival training, too. i have been through a lot. i don't wear it like a badge for the world to see, but i hope that somehow i can live what i've learned and maybe help someone else along the way. you can't know happiness without knowing the opposite.
but again -- just because you're not traumatized doesn't mean there aren't people who ARE, and it doesn't mean there's something wrong with them because they ARE.



CherryNeko -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/10/2011 12:03:17 AM)

Nice rant, and nice rant title!



GreedyTop -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/10/2011 12:06:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

Very interesting post, Missokyst, and I totally agree. I too have dealt with molestation, domestic violence, drug abuse, incarceration and all kinds of other rotten things. I do not feel at all traumatized by them. Would I change some things? Sure, but I haven't let the thought of that become an obsession. I am who I am today because of everything that has happened and everything I have chosen - both good and bad.

It's not something I ever discuss with anybody but Master but I personally feel that rape does not have to traumatize someone. Sure, it can and often does but it's not a requirement. So often when you hear something about a rape, it's presented as if the victim has no choice but to be traumatized. This has to be the worst thing that has ever happened and she'll never get over it, they say. I personally disagree. In MY personal experience, this is totally not true for me.

It's amazing how differently people see the same event. Everyone is entitled to his/her take on things and should deal with them however is best for him/her. I just hate it when it's assumed that if X happens, that MUST mean Y in the way of reaction/damage/after effects, etc. Not necessarily so.............luci


QFT



LadyPact -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/10/2011 3:20:20 PM)

I wanted to do some thinking before responding to this.  I know one of these topics is a sensitive one for you, so I'd really like to just address that.  The note stapled to the shirt has already been blown way out of proportion, anyway.

I can appreciate your feelings about seeing the subject as a 'one true way' issue.  My question back to you is, if you want folks to see that it isn't that way in your case, can you understand that they might be right in some cases?  What I mean is, can you see that in some cases, it can be a damaging thing done by folks who may have issues that you don't?  Different people, different motivations, and so on.

When I was reading that discussion, I did have a thought that occurred to Me.  I think it works whether we're talking about self harm, sub frenzy, drinking too much, or a number of other things.  Motivation is a factor and is an activity being used because of underlying issues that a person can not manage to face.  Take S/m play, for example.  If someone is constantly chasing it as a form of escapism because they can not deal with their life, would that be healthy?  What if they were drinking themselves into oblivion every night because they can't handle their situation?  It's not always about one method being better or worse than the other.  Maybe it's one of those things that it's not so much about the "what" as the "why".



CalifChick -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/10/2011 3:29:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

lol oh try looking up cutting on a search, trust me you will find lots of people saying sick, nuts, needs counseling ect.
I am more than familar with the pattern. The point is not everyone has the reaction we are "supposed" to feel. I never felt shame from cutting, UNTIL I saw it on the net and people said I must be sick. It took me a year to come to the idea that we all process things differently. What people see are the extremes.


Most cutters cut because they cannot feel emotions, hence the "that person needs counseling" response - to learn to feel emotions in a way that doesn't involve crime-scene cleanup.

Rarely are cutters healthy people who cut, they are usually troubled people who cut.

Perhaps you cut for different reasons, but why would you be surprised when people think you are ill?

Cali



kdsub -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/10/2011 3:34:29 PM)

There are some things that are just wrong….so wrong that to not show distain would amount to agreement with the actions.

Self destructive behavior is one of those things that need to be pointed out...if we are to be compassionate. Not speaking up is saying we don’t give a shit about our fellow man or woman.

I know it is annoying on seemingly petty matters but I’d rather be annoyed then indifferent.

Butch



IrishMist -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/10/2011 3:38:22 PM)

quote:

I can appreciate your feelings about seeing the subject as a 'one true way' issue. My question back to you is, if you want folks to see that it isn't that way in your case, can you understand that they might be right in some cases? What I mean is, can you see that in some cases, it can be a damaging thing done by folks who may have issues that you don't? Different people, different motivations, and so on.

When I was reading that discussion, I did have a thought that occurred to Me. I think it works whether we're talking about self harm, sub frenzy, drinking too much, or a number of other things. Motivation is a factor and is an activity being used because of underlying issues that a person can not manage to face. Take S/m play, for example. If someone is constantly chasing it as a form of escapism because they can not deal with their life, would that be healthy? What if they were drinking themselves into oblivion every night because they can't handle their situation? It's not always about one method being better or worse than the other. Maybe it's one of those things that it's not so much about the "what" as the "why".

Nicely stated Ma'am [:)]



gungadin09 -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/10/2011 4:01:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
I get a bit annoyed at the posts that suggest things are one true way, so this is a rant...

We all perceive things through the color of the lens that life dealt us...
Everyones level of tolerance is different,
end of rant


i confess, i do NOT get upset when people argue that there is One True Way. As i see it, all they are really saying is that there is one true way *for them*. And, as this is a forum, they are entitled to make that argument; about what they prefer, about what they think is better, about what they think is true. There is very little in this world that is *absolutely* preferable, or better, or true.

Most of the arguments here fall into the category of "things that are true from a certain point of view". And even if the person didn't specifically say "for myself this is what i prefer, from my point of view this is what's better, in my opinion this is what's true", i usually give them credit that that's what they meant. Even though they may have stated their case using absolute language (saying "chocolate ice cream is better than strawberry", instead of "i prefer chocolate ice cream to strawberry"), i usually give people the benefit of the doubt. "It's better TO ME" is really what they meant. Giving posters that credit keeps my blood pressure down.

i didn't read the thread in question. i don't know whether anyone stepped over any line. If anyone tried to tell you what's true for you, what you think, what your motives are, then that was a little bit out of order. You must be a better judge of that than random people on a thread. But then, that's exactly what i would have told them, in that case.

pam



GreedyTop -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/10/2011 4:30:09 PM)

when someone goes on about the one twue way AS IT APPLIES TO THEMSELF, I have no issue.  When they indicate by word or attitude that THEIR one twue way should apply to EVERYONE..  

PAH.

them and the horse they rode in on....



FukinTroll -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/10/2011 5:18:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

when someone goes on about the one twue way AS IT APPLIES TO THEMSELF, I have no issue.  When they indicate by word or attitude that THEIR one twue way should apply to EVERYONE..  

PAH.

them and the horse they rode in on....


My one twue applies to YOU!

SLURP~

*Troll enterprises would like to state that no trolls were murdered before, during or (hopefully) after this post. Void where prohibited, coming to a bridge near you.

ETA: I wonder if this is internet bullying?



Termyn8or -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/10/2011 6:04:19 PM)

"We all perceive things through the color of the lens that life dealt us."

Y'know, Charles Manson said about the same thing in an interview years ago.

T^T



Missokyst -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/10/2011 6:46:32 PM)

Yes, I consider these things. In the time I have been on CM I have observed various threads and see how people take definitive stances on drinking, drugs, red flags, safety, and other things like cutting. I have seen people jump on the bandwagons and ride them into the ground. And I have spoken up on behalf of those who might be like me, and have had a drink or two while playing, or who do not engage in SSC, prefering RACK instead, and most especially when cutting comes into the topic. I do it because I KNOW not all things are cut and dried as such threads make it appear. I have talked to other cutters, done the therapy thing, and have spent a bit of time as a counselor. Enough to know that not all people have the same motivations or reactions.

When I speak up what happens is I get a lot of flack, which is cool because I am more than capable of holding my ground. In the beginning no one joined in to admit to cutting. Later as time went on I saw one or two make the admission. And only recently I have seen a poster or two say, yes, they did it but it is not some horrendous thing. In my mail box on the other side I get a fair share of mail when I do speak up. Usually from people who are doing this, but are afraid of saying anything. Why? I suspect they fear the response. lol having heard the response I think it is wise. I myself have no worry about what people think of me.

The main reason I speak up is this. I have always engaged in BDSM. Always. Before I was sexual I was a masochist that is a long time. But I did not know I was different. I had no clue everyone was not enjoying bdsm in their bedrooms until 1995 when I got online. Then I found out people saw this as a sickness. Perversion. Not normal. And for a short while I felt badly about myself because I was made to feel sick.

This stuff we do.. BDSM is becoming more widely known. Over the years it has gone from sick and twisted, to.. "oh. they do that on CSI". It has lost a lot of the distain it had in the early years. I remember that feeling I had of confusion and discomfort for liking what I liked. And for those people who do things which are not quite the norm and are still in that catagory of "sick and needs counseling"... I ask that they remember that once BDSM had that same reaction. NOT all BDSM practioners are going to do stuff you can see on BrutalMaster.com. Not all cutters are full of scars and have thoughts of slitting their wrists.

I DO see that there are those people who have problems with what they do. I think enough people are speaking out and suggesting counseling, ect. My point is not everyone is going to have the issue and for those people I choose to speak because they are getting enough of the bad feelings from knowing that others do not find it acceptable.


quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

I can appreciate your feelings about seeing the subject as a 'one true way' issue. My question back to you is, if you want folks to see that it isn't that way in your case, can you understand that they might be right in some cases? What I mean is, can you see that in some cases, it can be a damaging thing done by folks who may have issues that you don't? Different people, different motivations, and so on. When I was reading that discussion, I did have a thought that occurred to Me. I think it works whether we're talking about self harm, sub frenzy, drinking too much, or a number of other things. Motivation is a factor and is an activity being used because of underlying issues that a person can not manage to face. Take S/m play, for example. If someone is constantly chasing it as a form of escapism because they can not deal with their life, would that be healthy? What if they were drinking themselves into oblivion every night because they can't handle their situation? It's not always about one method being better or worse than the other. Maybe it's one of those things that it's not so much about the "what" as the "why".

Nicely stated Ma'am [:)]




Missokyst -> RE: Differences in perception, reaction (3/10/2011 6:57:52 PM)

I wouldn't know. I am a crime junkie but though I lived in the area of the murders when they occured.. I did not see a need to examine a criminal. I did check though, google is my friend. I found nothing. Perhaps you have a link?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"We all perceive things through the color of the lens that life dealt us."

Y'know, Charles Manson said about the same thing in an interview years ago.

T^T




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