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RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 1:51:47 PM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
You mean kinda like you claiming that anyone said the bill had the words DEATH PANEL.


Kinda like you trying to run around pretending that many conservative sources that the bill created Death Panels.

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RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 2:09:27 PM   
jack8007


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quote:


Go


There's honest & regulated capitalism, complete with anti-trust and anti-fraud provisions, which is the only way to go, as the Soviets amply demonstrated.

Then there's crony capitalism, as practice by the Republican leadership and People's Republic of China, and it's somewhat more corrupt, and somewhat less damaging, than Stalinism.

(in reply to xBullx)
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RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 2:14:14 PM   
jack8007


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quote:

no known mechanism to keep greed in check


Laws are pretty good ways to handle this, if they're enforced.   Worked well for a long time.

What a lot of people don't think is that the natural course of the free market is that some guy eventually puts everybody else out of business, and then you don't have a free market anymore.   T Roosevelt was one of the 1st to get on that problem, and it worked pretty well until the GOP decided they weren't making enough money.

GHWBush should have collared his idiot son GWBush, and reminded him of the Wall Street maxim that, "bulls make money, bears make money, but pigs get slaughtered."  

(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 2:15:10 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
You mean kinda like you claiming that anyone said the bill had the words DEATH PANEL.


Kinda like you trying to run around pretending that many conservative sources that the bill created Death Panels.



It is the natural consequence of government control. It doesnt have to be specifically legilslated.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to flcouple2009)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 2:18:38 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		so, this wouldn't happen under corporate control, like now then. or is that under unnatural consequence?

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RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 2:29:15 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Willbe has spoken, there isn't a lie in the op....


Of course, considering the source of the statement, it was expected.

Kinda like going through the health reform bill and looking for the words DEATH PANEL.


You mean kinda like you claiming that anyone said the bill had the words DEATH PANEL.



Well gee, to quote the REPUBLICAN Saint Sarah Palin, the bill does create DEATH PANELS, and there is nothing in the damn thing that even REMOTELY touches on the fucking subject.

Thus, every Right wing talking head that said it did, LIED through their fucking teeth, as has any right wing supporter who makes the same claim.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 2:32:07 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Willbe has spoken, there isn't a lie in the op....


Of course, considering the source of the statement, it was expected.

Kinda like going through the health reform bill and looking for the words DEATH PANEL.


You mean kinda like you claiming that anyone said the bill had the words DEATH PANEL.



Well gee, to quote the REPUBLICAN Saint Sarah Palin, the bill does create DEATH PANELS, and there is nothing in the damn thing that even REMOTELY touches on the fucking subject.

Thus, every Right wing talking head that said it did, LIED through their fucking teeth, as has any right wing supporter who makes the same claim.


The only liar is you.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 2:38:14 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


The only liar is you.


Please link to the part of the bill where it establishes ANYTHING remotely resembling a death panel.

By the way, we KNOW the Republicans support the concept, Look at Arizona.


THE ONLY THING the health reform bill that can be remotely considered a connection to the phrase is the fact that it makes insurance PAY for counseling on what to do in the event of TERMINAL conditions from which there is NO chance of recovery.

So now you post a link to something that says otherwise or shut the fuck up.

Of course, I can post links to the quotes by Sarah Palin making the claim about Death Panels, and others. In fact, those links have been provided on a number of occasions, yet no one seems to be able to provide a link that proves the Health Reform Bill establishes death panels.

< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 3/7/2011 2:39:59 PM >

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 2:39:23 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


The only liar is you.


Please link to the part of the bill where it establishes ANYTHING remotely resembling a death panel.

By the way, we KNOW the Republicans support the concept, Look at Arizona.


THE ONLY THING the health reform bill that can be remotely considered a connection to the phrase is the fact that it makes insurance PAY for counseling on what to do in the event of TERMINAL conditions from which there is NO chance of recovery.

So now you post a link to something that says otherwise or shut the fuck up.


Please link to any one who has ever said that there is anything IN THE BILL that creates death panels. There is nothing in Canadian health care law that CREATES death panels, but rationing has been in the news quite a bit lately. Learn to read something other than HuffPo.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 3/7/2011 2:41:37 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
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to the barking of the dogfox,
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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 2:50:49 PM   
jack8007


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quote:

natural consequence of government control


Want to explain how that is different from any private insurance company or hospital declining care?   How is it different from pursuing a policy that jams ERs and makes people die?  Or go bankrupt trying to stay alive?

But the real lie was describing counseling as a "death panel", when it was in fact the same sort of counseling about preparations for death that every conscientious social worker or estate lawyer does.



(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 2:53:38 PM   
jack8007


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quote:

every Right wing talking head that said it did, LIED through their fucking teeth, as has any right wing supporter who makes the same claim.


If this were the only lie methodically sponsored by a virtually uniform Republican party, I'd shrug it off.

But what is remarkable these days is to hear something substantially true coming from them.

I keep waiting.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 3:07:36 PM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Please link to any one who has ever said that there is anything IN THE BILL that creates death panels. There is nothing in Canadian health care law that CREATES death panels, but rationing has been in the news quite a bit lately. Learn to read something other than HuffPo.



First, from Sarah Palin's face book page:


quote:

The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil. Statement on the Current Health Care Debate by Sarah Palin on Friday, August 7, 2009 at 3:26pm


After repeated debunkings of "death panels," conservative media backtrack to "de facto death panels"

Watch the fucking video.

A fox news person says "The entire bill is one big death panel"

If you dont want to watch the video, just read the transcript.]\

Sorry charlie, YOU LOSE

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 3:13:37 PM   
jack8007


Posts: 392
Joined: 8/14/2007
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quote:

from Sarah Palin's face book page


Thanks for your service and sacrifice for America.     If there was any justice, the VA would cover you for any brain damage resulting from reading her shit.



(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 3:21:27 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Jack, I had to put up with a closed minded head of a history department that refused to admit anything that disagreed with his doctoral thesis written some 40 years before I attended school. So putting up with the ramblings of people like him and Palin is actually quite easy.

The real task is the fact that even though I provided proof of the claims, the right wingnut asking for such proof will deny the validity of the links, even though one is from Palin herself, and the other has video proof.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to jack8007)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 4:18:41 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jack8007

quote:

natural consequence of government control


Want to explain how that is different from any private insurance company or hospital declining care? try suing the government, then you can explain the difference

   How is it different from pursuing a policy that jams ERs and makes people die? 
I don't know of any such policy, so you'll have to explain the difference

Or go bankrupt trying to stay alive?

People dont go bankrupt trying to stay alive. They go bankrupt because they didnt prepare for the need to stay alive.


But the real lie was describing counseling as a "death panel", when it was in fact the same sort of counseling about preparations for death that every conscientious social worker or estate lawyer does.

A social worker or estate lawyer doesnt have a financial interest in your decision.







_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to jack8007)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 4:21:24 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Please link to any one who has ever said that there is anything IN THE BILL that creates death panels. There is nothing in Canadian health care law that CREATES death panels, but rationing has been in the news quite a bit lately. Learn to read something other than HuffPo.



First, from Sarah Palin's face book page:


quote:

The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil. Statement on the Current Health Care Debate by Sarah Palin on Friday, August 7, 2009 at 3:26pm


After repeated debunkings of "death panels," conservative media backtrack to "de facto death panels"

Watch the fucking video.

A fox news person says "The entire bill is one big death panel"

If you dont want to watch the video, just read the transcript.]\

Sorry charlie, YOU LOSE


too fucking bad for you that you aren't the arbiter of who "loses" and what is truth. Everything you quoted is absolutely correct, not my fault that you are too ignorant to understand that.

Even Sebelius admitted today that the cost savings from the bill were a lie.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 4:37:35 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Then Willbe, post a direct link to the point in the bill where it sets up a "Death Panel." The reason you cant is that it does not in any way, shape of form creates anything like that. It does provide "End of Life" Counseling which gives the options, but it does not leave the decision to any fucking DEATH PANEL of political bureaucrats.

Therefore, once more, it is a pack of lies.

AND you asked for proof that the right wing had made the claim. Which you denied that they have.

You are so full of bullshit it is not funny.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 5:01:36 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
You mean kinda like you claiming that anyone said the bill had the words DEATH PANEL.


Kinda like you trying to run around pretending that many conservative sources that the bill created Death Panels.



It is the natural consequence of government control. It doesnt have to be specifically legilslated.


Flc`s post didnt say "legilslated" whatever that means, he said created. Again you have changed one word to make your own post look better.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 5:31:57 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


Please link to any one who has ever said that there is anything IN THE BILL that creates death panels. There is nothing in Canadian health care law that CREATES death panels, but rationing has been in the news quite a bit lately. Learn to read something other than HuffPo.



Want to provide a link to the part of the bill that discusses rationing health care? The only people in this country talking about RATIONING health care are Arizona REPUBLICANS, or have you conveniently forgotten that little fact.

Again, you are good at making claims with no proof, I can provide proof to my statements.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Fox News Lies - 3/7/2011 6:22:48 PM   
jack8007


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quote:

closed minded head


Close minded wingnuts, etc only hurt themselves.   Everybody else in their life eventually comes and goes, but they have to live with themselves, and whatever limitations they put on themselves.   Accepting that we have to prioritize, and limit static, it simply makes no sense to generally limit input.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 40
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