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RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 6:54:25 AM   
mnottertail


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So a de facto rationing of healthcare has been our model for lo, these many years.  (in short)

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RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 6:58:46 AM   
Louve00


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I think so, yes Ron.  Its why I went into respiratory.  I'm not saying I wasn't busy and didn't have a full patient load, but I was able (most times) to go home not feeling quite so guilty about what I couldnt do.

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For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

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RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 7:02:18 AM   
mnottertail


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My sister was head of inhalation therapy or respiratory therapy (whatever you all call it) at a hospital in Fergus Falls for many years and before that assistant director or whatever in a Fargo. She had been at it since its infancy.

She threw in the towel for about the same reasons you did. Just up one day and said piss on it.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/5/2011 7:03:17 AM >


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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 7:09:14 AM   
Louve00


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I can imagine.  I personally know the guilt she felt knowing she was able to do more but couldn't.  It fucks with your ethics...and then some A-hole comes along and says...Union?  You don't need a union.  You'll work yourself out of a job with one of them.  Never considering who else gets hurt.

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For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

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RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 9:52:22 AM   
maybemaybenot


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FR:

Nurses going on strike is a sticky wicket. Public perception is that nurses are dedicated angels of mercy who have no needs other than caring for the infirmed. ie: we * shouldn't * be so selfish as to ask for a decent wage and benefit package and job security language when there are human lives at stake. So the striking nurses are seen as selfish bitches who shouldn't even call themselves nurses. Yea, I know I'm generalizing, but sadly it's still a common perception.

I was a Union Steward at one of my previous jobs. We had some pretty heated negotiations and took a strike vote twice. I'm only speaking from my own experience BUT.. I will tell you that we always made sure, when we spoke to the press, that we said patient safety and poor staffing were the primary reasons for the potential strike. It's more palatable to the public. Who wants Granny or little Joey's care being compromised because the nurses are scarce and over worked ? In both cases, yes, we did want higher staffing ratio's, but we wanted our money and benefits more. We had been doing the job, succesfully, with the staff we had, which was adequate but not ideal. So it really came down to money, job security and benefits. Both times we avoided a strike by management agreeing to or meeting us halfway.. on money and benefits. The staffing part of our list was what we " gave up ". Again, speaking only for me : it would have been somewhat unethical to walk out on my patients if indeed they were in danger with the number of nurses currently employed, leaving them with less staff and " imported nurses ". ON the flip side, if I felt my nursing license was in danger due to conditions, I would definately walk out, but more likely would have already resigned.

From what I have read about the Washington nurse's it seems the hospital wants to do away with shift and weekend differentials, which would result in a fairly decent reduction in pay for the nurse.

On the staffing issue: I have read that there have been 500+ reports filed by the nurses on short staffing. They are called ADO's or Assignments Depspite Objections. I know this trick too. Everytime as much as one nurse calls in sick or fails to show up and is unable to be replaced, you make out one of these reports. It not an official Health Department report, it's a union form you give to the hospital. Let's say there were 10 nurses scheduled and 9 showed up. All 9 nurses make out a report on the same thing. That gives you the overinflated numbers on how bad it appears. There have been no deaths associated with the complaints. The union says the high resignation number is due to short staffing and new nuses not being able to deal with it. I would * guess * that that is a reason for some of the nurses, but anyone who is a nurse or healthcare professional knows the scary turnover rate amongst healthcare professionals everywhere.

This particular hospital has 926 beds and 1,666 nurses on staff. The hospital has hired 385 new nurses since Jan 1.
239 nurses have left the hospital since the same date. So it is only a + 136 gain in manpower. Hard to tell if that number of nurses is good or not, as we don't know how many are full time, part time, weekend only or per diem. So the base number may skew the actual picture of what staffing looks like. I will credit the hospital in that it doesn't appear that they are" not trying" to get nurses or that they are not hiring nurses. Quite the opposite. That's a huge number of nurses to hire in 3 months


I am not anti union. What I am saying, based on my own experience, is that a nurse going on strike is very,very, different than other workers and they need to handle the public perception much differently. There's tricks on both sides, it's all part of the game.
My own opinion is this strike/lockout will be resolved when the hospital gives in to the union and does not take away shift/weekend differentials and they will come up with a " plan " or " commitee " to work together to improve staffing and safety issues "in the future".

I consider myself fortunate that we never got to a walk out or strike when I was in the union. It would have been a huge ethical dilema for me and I can honestly say I'm not sure I could have actually walked out. I know, I know... pretty bad for a Union Steward, bargaining unit negotiater. But... I believe I would have done it if it ever had been a proposal/hardline to reduce my pay, which is the case here. So I stand by these nurses for the wage and benefit portion of the strike/lockout. I'm not saying staffing/patient safety isn't a concern, I am saying it is not the motivating factor for the strike/lockout. < IMO>

mbmbn



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Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 10:35:01 AM   
truckinslave


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Thank you. I think you deserve a lot of respect for that post.

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 10:44:34 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

You do realize the boards only tests basic, safe nursing practices.


depends on which boards. You do realize there are different ones for different licenses?

It's neither demeaning nor unrealistic. My wife would be the first to tell you that I could sit through (most) of the classes and cruise through... Nursing isn't med school; an msn isn't a jd. It's just not that difficult a field.



_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 10:48:22 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

You couldnt even get that right.


Perhaps Orlowski didn't get it right, but I quoted him absolutely perfectly , as taken from a website provided by the OP.

Someone was in a mood last night.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 10:59:23 AM   
truckinslave


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No one wants their loved ones ignored. I had a premie in a NICU for over 90 days... developed major respect for those people. The doctors have to conduct life and death experiments on a relatively frequent basis. The nurses come to work day after day, trying to save the most helpless of the helpless, knowing they are going to watch babies die.

The burnout rate is of course very high, but how do you even make the first month. Knew a woman once who spent a decade on a childrens oncology word. How do you do that?



_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Louve00)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 11:23:46 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

You do realize the boards only tests basic, safe nursing practices.


depends on which boards. You do realize there are different ones for different licenses?

It's neither demeaning nor unrealistic. My wife would be the first to tell you that I could sit through (most) of the classes and cruise through... Nursing isn't med school; an msn isn't a jd. It's just not that difficult a field.




Let me clarify... which nursing does your wife teach?

~ETA

All RN's take the same boards... the same test to determine basic, minimum standards of care.

LPN's have their own.

CNA's have their own.

NP's have one as well.

Again, which does your wife teach that you, someone who has not performed any clinical training, could pass with a two week cram course?

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 3/5/2011 11:43:36 AM >


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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 11:34:13 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

No one wants their loved ones ignored. I had a premie in a NICU for over 90 days... developed major respect for those people. The doctors have to conduct life and death experiments on a relatively frequent basis. The nurses come to work day after day, trying to save the most helpless of the helpless, knowing they are going to watch babies die.

The burnout rate is of course very high, but how do you even make the first month. Knew a woman once who spent a decade on a childrens oncology word. How do you do that?




quote:

Nursing isn't med school; an msn isn't a jd. It's just not that difficult a field.


So much for that "respect" you spoke about.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 11:52:48 AM   
truckinslave


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She is an NP, teaches RN hopefuls.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 11:56:29 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

So much for that "respect" you spoke about.

Not at all tg.

people need not be geniuses, or doctors, or lawyers, to have my respect.

But the dedication, the compassion, the emotional toughness of the people I mentioned did not earn my respect but demanded it.

Even though I don't think a BSN is the most scholastically demanding degree there is.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 11:58:28 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

She is an NP, teaches RN hopefuls


Thank you for proving just how full of shit you really are.

There isnt even an LPN who would state she could pass the NCLEX-RN exam without training.

You belittle your wife, the nurses who cared for your premature child, and anyone who has actually passed that extremely difficult exam.

You need to learn to lie better.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 12:09:19 PM   
truckinslave


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You need to learn not to make assumptions about people you don't know. Ive been around it for years, taken many of the tests my wife gives, picked up the odd smattering of pharmacological knowledge along the way, learned much of the jargon..... And it's a multiple choice test; I'm good with tests.

My wife would not bet (much, at least ) against my passing it. She's seen me take her tests cold and pass them.

Besides, even if I took it and failed it's not lying to have said I thought I could pass it. It's at worst an inflated ego. (Surely the only one here, I know, but still)

Finally, tg, had I wanted to lie I would have said the LPN exam.....

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 1:05:07 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
This is why some professions should never be allowed to unionize. If my relative died at that hospital the ink would not be dry on the death certificate before I filed the wrongful death lawsuit. A nurses strike is possibly more dangerous than a police strike.

BTW, from your site: Even with the cuts to shift differentials, Orlowski said, the nurses are among the highest paid in the metropolitan area. In 2009, the average nurse at the hospital center earned about $93,000, she said.

My wife teaches nursing.... don't even try to tell me how difficult the education required is, etc. Don't even try.

Now there's an idea, do not allow them to unionize which means your kin could die early anyway or with nurses as IC's we could do what the great freedom loving America has done so often...shoot them down or throw them in jail.

Doctors make $200,000/yr. and refuse medicare patients if they are not paid enough and all without a care...for their care.

Problem is your kin would just as likely die an awful death anyway and don't look now but the nurses would not be culpable anyway...management and ownership would be.

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RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 1:29:39 PM   
DomKen


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RN is a 3 or 4 year college program. There is no way any one person teaches the whole thing and it is extremely unlikely that a single person teaches more than a single narrow part. Since it is taught as part of a college or university program it is very unlikely that most of the faculty don't have PhD's or equivalent. A nurse practitioner might teach some practical aspects but no way does one teach the rest of it.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 1:44:50 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

FR:

From what I have read about the Washington nurse's it seems the hospital wants to do away with shift and weekend differentials, which would result in a fairly decent reduction in pay for the nurse.

I consider myself fortunate that we never got to a walk out or strike when I was in the union. It would have been a huge ethical dilema for me and I can honestly say I'm not sure I could have actually walked out. I know, I know... pretty bad for a Union Steward, bargaining unit negotiater. But... I believe I would have done it if it ever had been a proposal/hardline to reduce my pay, which is the case here. So I stand by these nurses for the wage and benefit portion of the strike/lockout. I'm not saying staffing/patient safety isn't a concern, I am saying it is not the motivating factor for the strike/lockout. < IMO>

mbmbn

I parsed your post because you have narrowed it down here to what is the main problem throughout American society...it is always about the money. These hospitals exist not for health care but for enrichment.

Washington Hospital Center is a non-profit but that of course doesn't prohibit a profit, it prohibits [its] distribution to any owners/investors. I know for a fact back in the 90's the Fairfax (Va.) Hosp. 'Association' for example...made $31 million in one year of  'non' profits which went a long way to explain how Drs. made $200,000/yr. each while the hospital 'administrator' made $1 million/yr. salary.


(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 2:33:09 PM   
truckinslave


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Nowhere did I say she has taught every (nursing) class in the program.
It is not unusual for nursing instructors at smaller venues to lack a PhD. The only initials after my wifes name are MSN, NP.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Union Nurses at Washington Hospital Center launch 1... - 3/5/2011 10:49:04 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

You need to learn not to make assumptions about people you don't know. Ive been around it for years, taken many of the tests my wife gives, picked up the odd smattering of pharmacological knowledge along the way, learned much of the jargon..... And it's a multiple choice test; I'm good with tests.

My wife would not bet (much, at least ) against my passing it. She's seen me take her tests cold and pass them.

Besides, even if I took it and failed it's not lying to have said I thought I could pass it. It's at worst an inflated ego. (Surely the only one here, I know, but still)


And you just keep going on and on. I was NALS, PALS and ACLS certified. I knew Drs who could not pass those tests. Dont belittle my knowledge base. There will come a time, as you have explained with the premie in NICU, who will require my form of "scholastically demanding degree".

Oh, and your dig about BSN nurses. Got news for you, the best trained RNs are diploma nurses. At one point, BSN nurses had failure rates on the boards like you wouldnt believe. Myself, Im just an ADN. 11 went to take boards... 11 passed the first time. But, even more amazing is... and hold on to your hat for this one... all RNs take the same exact test, regardless of the number of years to gain that degree.

https://www.ncsbn.org/1237.htm

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 40
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