Ready for the next bailout ? (Full Version)

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MrRodgers -> Ready for the next bailout ? (2/28/2011 12:50:10 PM)

Coming soon to your neighborhood newspapers and financial smut shops. Only delayed by the charm of its contining Ponzi features. I like the universal slant, similar to what I see in wall street's capitalism...the big con.

Imagine Madoff and Stanford (the two most recent huge Ponzi schemes) get a bailout. Debts are paid and they get bonuses for having 'stayed on to get the job done.' See why I call it a culture of greed and avarice ?

As I have written for me, the definition of 'capitalism' is strictly technical. By that I mean it can only truly be defined by its function.  Example: totalitarianism is defined as the state's 'total' control. Communism is defined as a 'communal' or collective means of production with state control.

Why another bailout ? Paper financial derivatives. Just what is that you ask ? It is yet another piece of paper the underlying value of which is extremely questionable and in fact...zero, same as our old favorite which presumably had value, they being mortgages. They of course did not have nearly enough value. Once anyone got a AAA rating on them though, well it was off to the races...for more money.

A friend visited, a businessman who went to check out a lecture and investment advice form a broker/banker/equity fund manager. Inspired by his account of the lecturer who called the big banks thieves, whores and...they continue to be.

Imagine, there were many on 'wall street' who didn't get a dime and took serious hits...or disappeared. Many smaller firms were wiped out altogether not being 'too big to fail.'
The 6-7 big investment bankers/retail bankers/brokerage houses...CAN DO ANYTHING THEY WANT and get away with it. Now it is derivatives the underlying value of which...IS ZERO.

Once anyone or enough investors/speculators want to cash-out and there isn't nearly enough money, it all...comes down again. ONLY this time it could be and very likely will be...in the 10's or 100's of $Trillions.  Be prepared for your 401K's, Roth's, Keogh's etc. to be worth almost nothing. Your kids or their kids to keep warm, liting the stove with kindling provided by daddy's Microsoft stock.

It's their paper game and has worked almost completely unregulated to-the-tune of $billions in private wealth amassed in the last 30 years and taxpayers holding the bag like what...like what ?

Like what we DIDN'T do for Madoff or Standford. That unfortunately...is the only difference here.



DCWoody -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (2/28/2011 1:12:13 PM)

Jesus fuck I can't even bring myself to read that. By the end of the 2nd paragraph I'm overcome with a desire for mashed potato and a wooden spoon. You're blathering man.



MrRodgers -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (2/28/2011 1:56:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

Jesus fuck I can't even bring myself to read that. By the end of the 2nd paragraph I'm overcome with a desire for mashed potato and a wooden spoon. You're blathering man.


Hardly, but I'll take that as a no...you are not ready for the next bailout.



hlen5 -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (2/28/2011 3:09:32 PM)

Have you watched the documentary that won this year's Oscar, "An Inside Job"?



MrRodgers -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (2/28/2011 3:39:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

Have you watched the documentary that won this year's Oscar, "An Inside Job"?

No I have not. But I will now. Thanx



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (2/28/2011 3:43:08 PM)

Not as bad as Michael Moore but still terribly hyperbolic and over-dramatic, besides only showing a surface level understanding of the issues. That this could win Best and "Waiting for Superman" not even nominated puts the Oscars at about the same level as the Nobel Peace Prize.



Musicmystery -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (2/28/2011 4:11:29 PM)

Yeah, but as Mr. R sees no difference between mortgages and financial derivatives, he's never going to notice the superficial treatment of issues, the hyperbole, or the melodramatic tone.



MrRodgers -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (2/28/2011 7:31:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Not as bad as Michael Moore but still terribly hyperbolic and over-dramatic, besides only showing a surface level understanding of the issues. That this could win Best and "Waiting for Superman" not even nominated puts the Oscars at about the same level as the Nobel Peace Prize.

I am all eyes. Give me some of that ole time religion...er I mean 'below' surface understanding.



MrRodgers -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (2/28/2011 7:43:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Yeah, but as Mr. R sees no difference between mortgages and financial derivatives, he's never going to notice the superficial treatment of issues, the hyperbole, or the melodramatic tone.

Please point out those differences. What I 'see' is any number of very questionable mortgages packaged together to create a fairly large amount of money on a likewise very questionable piece of paper called a mortgage-backed security (a type of financial derivative) the value of which was...very questionable. As we discovered, should never have discovered...it was shit-paper and the creators and sellers knew it too.



Musicmystery -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (2/28/2011 7:47:11 PM)

Once you change a mortgage to a derivative, that's different.

Isn't it.



MrRodgers -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (2/28/2011 10:22:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Once you change a mortgage to a derivative, that's different.

Isn't it.

A single mortgage is inconsequential. Put 50 together for a $10 million 'security' the sellers knew were mostly junk is what made up MBS's.

So you tell us...what is the difference ?



Musicmystery -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (3/1/2011 6:47:48 AM)

Do you read?

As I've ALREADY noted, and you've ignored, CHANGING a mortgage to a derivative financial instruments changes it to...a derivative, obviously.

So your beef is with financial derivatives, not mortgages. That's very different than what you said in your OP.

I'd even agree with you in part on derivatives, if you ever stop being a dick.



MrRodgers -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (3/1/2011 8:43:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Do you read?

As I've ALREADY noted, and you've ignored, CHANGING a mortgage to a derivative financial instruments changes it to...a derivative, obviously.

So your beef is with financial derivatives, not mortgages. That's very different than what you said in your OP.

I'd even agree with you in part on derivatives, if you ever stop being a dick.

Stop this now. I read very likely...more than most. Financial derivative: In finance, derivative(s) is the collective name used for a broad class of financial instruments that derive their value from other financial instruments (known as the underlying), events or conditions. So, these derivatives...could be anything.

As I've written...cunt backed securities have more meat behind them then the junk that wall street comes up with. Those instruments are nothing but pieces of paper...printed by wall street.



Musicmystery -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (3/1/2011 8:48:05 AM)

Good. You read. Now go back and read the posts, and you'll see how you're being a dick.

In particular, you're repeating the point I made as a counterargument to the point I made.




pahunkboy -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (3/1/2011 8:50:39 AM)

Give it up Mr R.  These people will be in the FEMA camps.  No point rattling their quaint little world. 



MrRodgers -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (3/1/2011 9:52:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Good. You read. Now go back and read the posts, and you'll see how you're being a dick.

In particular, you're repeating the point I made as a counterargument to the point I made.

What counterargument ? The mortgages...do NOT change at all. They remain a loan on a house or whatever. The derivative is the document I type up that becomes a 'mortgage-backed security' and that becomes the 'derivative.' I'd readily admit my error if you could specifically point it out to me. There are stock futures and stock index futures...they are a form of derivative.

With the hedge funds now having sold $trillions in 'securities' the underlying value of which is zero...one empty wallet or bit of over speculation and we are looking at financial Armageddon. Just as in capitalism, if everybody wants their money (cash)...it isn't there.




Musicmystery -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (3/1/2011 9:56:22 AM)

This is going in circles.

Again, already said.

Stop typing "Nuh-uh! Blah blah blah" automatically, and look at what's been said first.



pahunkboy -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (3/1/2011 7:05:14 PM)

Yeah- MM- paper roses are never as good as real roses~!



EternalHoH -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (3/2/2011 10:39:27 AM)

I wonder if Boehner will cry when he has to write that taxpayer check against his tea buddy wishes??



EternalHoH -> RE: Ready for the next bailout ? (3/2/2011 10:46:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Not as bad as Michael Moore but still terribly hyperbolic and over-dramatic, besides only showing a surface level understanding of the issues.



And just think, it never even touched on Interest rate derivatives or oil derivatives or all those "fire insurance" policies written against the solvency of state governments or corporations other than GM.  The movie really only focused on the housing problem, which was only 10% of the ponzi scheme.

I did like it when they finally said the "p" word and called it a ponzi scheme. And we thought Madoff was the only bad boy in town.



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