Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"?

Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (Full Version)

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gungadin09 -> Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/19/2011 6:46:01 PM)
It seems to me that most posters here see themselves as participating in some sort of lifestyle BDSM, rather than kinky "play". And that the basis for this lifestyle is the partnership between Someone with a Dominant orientation and someone with a submissive one. (Or, in some cases, more than one person with that orientation). That the Dominant is defined as Someone with a deep, inborn need to play the dominant role in a relationship. That the submissive is defined as someone with a deep, inborn need to play the submissive role in a relationship. But where does that leave switches? Switches often seem to be viewed as a kind of anomaly, perhaps even casual players who are just out to get their kink on (not that there's anything wrong with that!). Help me out here. Where are all the lifestyle switches? Or, does such a thing even exist? pam (with apologies to leadership527 if i stole this idea from Him)

leadership527 -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/19/2011 6:53:32 PM)
Nope, not what I wanted to post about :) Insofar as "lifestyle switches", I personally have never subscribed to the boolean thinking that permeates BDSM. To me, "switch" seems like the most normal thing by far. The only question in my mind is "switch" when and under what circumstances. At least for me, the more closely I look at REAL humans, the more resistant they become to simple classifications and absolute statements.

gungadin09 -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/19/2011 7:16:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gungadin09 Help me out here. Where are all the lifestyle switches? Or, does such a thing even exist? Well, i guess what i'm asking is whether Dominance and submission are seen more as inborn personality traits or behaviors. And if they are seen as inborn personality traits, can "switch" be an inborn personality trait? Because to me the "lifestyle" part of lifestyle BDSM is derived from the fact that orientation is the same as personality (rather than a kind of roleplay). pam P.S.- Are You sure this isn't Your idea?

Palliata -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/19/2011 7:25:00 PM)
I have met people who define themselves as lifestyle switches. It tends to be a battle of wills on a daily basis, and whoever is feeling more dominant that day ends up winning and being in charge until the other person rises up and takes over. It's like living in Animal House lol. Quite an interesting dynamic, though not one I'd personally want to live in. I'm not sure what that means in terms of the overarching human nature issue inherent in the lifestyle, but it does definitely exist. I would say that, as leadership said, people come in a very diverse lots, and the moment you think you've got them classified someone will spring up on the line and that will be that.

SweetDommes -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 12:05:01 AM)
I'm a switch - I'm submissive to Holly, Dominant to ... pretty much everyone else in my life that I won't get fired for it. shrugs It's rarely an issue for me. I may not always like what I'm told to do by Holly ... but I'm sure that every single pyl on this board can say that about orders given by their PYL at some point in time or another. *pyl stands for "pick your label"

TotalDiscipline -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 3:17:40 AM)
quote: That the Dominant is defined as Someone with a deep, inborn need to play the dominant role in a relationship. not inborn, not play and not a need it happens..it developed....and is accepted by the partner ( for me at least)

catize -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 5:14:08 AM)
quote: It seems to me that most posters here see themselves as participating in some sort of lifestyle BDSM, rather than kinky "play". And that the basis for this lifestyle is the partnership between Someone with a Dominant orientation and someone with a submissive one. (Or, in some cases, more than one person with that orientation). That the Dominant is defined as Someone with a deep, inborn need to play the dominant role in a relationship. That the submissive is defined as someone with a deep, inborn need to play the submissive role in a relationship. I am not submissive all the time. I am, if not dominant, strongly assertive in my work and with my friends. I am submissive in my intimate relationships. A few posters on here would say that makes me a switch. ~~shrugs~~ “Want” or “need” is irrelevant to me. My D/s relationships are less contentious, happier and more fulfilling than my previous non D/s attempts at dating or marriage.

gungadin09 -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 7:31:37 AM)
Looking through the responses people are saying that they do NOT behave "Dominantly" or "submissively" 100% of the time. They may behave one way at work, and another with their partner. Or, not even always with their partner; that they may submit (albeit reluctantly) to an order to even though they strongly disagree. In other words, Dominants and submissives are not automatons who walk around blindly following some sort of Dominant or submissive "code of conduct" because they've been hardwired to do so. Well, i KNOW that. That was my point. Maybe i didn't phrase the OP well. What i'm confused about is why people behave differently in these different situations. If someone asked me to explain my behavior in a nutshell, i would say that i act the way i do because of who i am. i was born with certain traits. Those inborn traits were further acted upon by my environment and experiences to form the person i am now, and i formulate my actions based on THAT: my personality, my wants and needs, my sense of ethics, my understanding of reality, how i see the world. And yet, even though who i am remains constant throughout, the same stimuli may evoke very different responses depending on what my environment is. In other words: what i would submit to from my boss at work, what i would submit to from a total stranger on the street, what i would submit to from someone i didn't know but who labeled themself "Dominant" in an email, and what i would submit to in a D/s relationship... in each case my behavior would be very different. In other words, even though i think of myself as having a submissive personality, i am still "choosing" my level of submission in each of these cases. My behavior cannot be explained by innate temperment alone. We all behave with varying degrees of submission and dominance in our lives. Neither of us is entirely one or the other. i brought up the question of "lifestyle switches", because i think that's the crux of this issue. What does does it mean to be involved in "lifestyle BDSM" and what does it mean to be a switch, when innate characteristics influence everyone's behavior but do not predetermine it? We are all "switches" in our lives, to some extent or other. Since (presumably) our personalities aren't what's changing from one example to the next, would it be fair to say that that's because in different circumstances we play different "roles"? If so, then where does the "role" or "choice" end and "who we really are" begin? pam

leadership527 -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 9:06:16 AM)
Well, i guess what i'm asking is whether Dominance and submission are seen more as inborn personality traits or behaviors. Heh, no matter how many times it's asked, that old "Nature vs. Nurture" question just never gets old, does it? Like always, I'm gonna go with "both". *And if* they are seen as inborn personality traits, can "switch" be an inborn personality trait? Well, I suppose that's going to depend on what, exactly, you mean by "them". The view that I most like is to separate out dom/sub so that they aren't on the same continuum. Then ask individually how dominant and how submissive a person is. I'd assume that anyone with any reasonable amount of both could switch. That would be pretty much every human on the face of the planet. After that it all comes down to motivation. Because to me the "lifestyle" part of lifestyle BDSM is derived from the fact that orientation is the same as personality (rather than a kind of roleplay).** Hrrrrm, I don't see your use of "personality" and "roleplay" the same. Saying something is "inborn" is not the same as saying that it's a personality trait. Whether it's more nature or nurture, whatever the final verdict is is what it is. Some combination of nature & nurture made Carol what she is and that can only be easily labeled as "sub" in really broad brush strokes. I do not think of the folks who have a radical split between their public and private behavior as engaging in any sort of artificial behavior. I see them as humans who behave one way in situation X and a different way in situation Y.... which is in fact how humans behave in general. The question of switches is, in my mind, an artifact of overly simplistic boxes being applied in BDSM terminology. The theoretical model is flawed and so the experimental data doesn't line up with it. I generally think that ALL humans are switch at the capability level. The desire to polarize is an add-on behavior having more to do with social rank than actual human nature. In an odd sort of way, that means that all the focus on "true-ness" causes people to behave "un-truly" laughs *P.S.- Are You sure* this isn't Your idea?** Well, now that I see it spelled out more, it is sort of what I was wondering about. But you take a very different view on "by personality trait" than I do which changes the question radically. What spurred this thread was the general case of "what happens BEFORE any agreement when two people meet". If you're looking at default behaviors, then they behave according to their default. If you're looking at situational behaviors, then they behave according to their default until the situation changes (presumably some agreement to submit). I see no intrinsic value in nature vs. nurture. EDITED TO RESPOND TO: In other words, even though i think of myself as having a submissive personality, i am still "choosing" my level of submission in each of these cases. yes, this would be how I see Carol also. When I say that I don't believe she has real choice or consent, what I'm saying is that she is under so much coercion by our default behaviors that I see the choices she makes as "under duress" and so "consent" becomes a tenuous concept at best. But also, given sufficient provocation, even with me, she can choose to act in some other way than her default comfort zone.

CalifChick -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 9:37:53 AM)
I usually put my flame-proof suit on when this sort of question comes up. ;) I don't believe that such a thing as a switch exists. I believe the following: - dominance and submission are intimate relationship orientations; not everyone is either one of these, there is no power component to their intimate relationships - being dominant or submissive regarding your intimate relationship has no bearing on your personality when dealing with others (work, friends, family, etc.) - people that I know that describe themselves as switches go on to describe sexual activities, not intimate relationship orientations. I call these "switching" sexual activities "topping and bottoming" not dominance and submission. quote: In other words: what i would submit to from my boss at work, what i would submit to from a total stranger on the street, what i would submit to from someone i didn't know but who labeled themself "Dominant" in an email, and what i would submit to in a D/s relationship... in each case my behavior would be very different. I don't call what happens at work "submitting", I call it working for someone else (as opposed to working for yourself). I don't describe everyday relationships with the terms we use for BDSM relationships, nor the terms used for sexual relationships. If you work for a woman and you are a woman that doesn't make you a lesbian; if you do what your boss tells you to do, that doesn't make you submissive to your boss. Cali

Reform -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 9:45:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gungadin09 i brought up the question of "lifestyle switches", because i think that's the crux of this issue. What does does it mean to be involved in "lifestyle BDSM" and what does it mean to be a switch, when innate characteristics influence everyone's behavior but do not predetermine it? We are all "switches" in our lives, to some extent or other. Since (presumably) our personalities aren't what's changing from one example to the next, would it be fair to say that that's because in different circumstances we play different "roles"? If so, then where does the "role" or "choice" end and "who we really are" begin? pam It seems to me that you think that only one type of characteristic can be present in any one person. I fully believe I have both sub characteristics and domme ones. How I chose to act on them at any given point through my life have awarded me different labels over time. Currently I am a switch, though how "lifestyle" I am is still being questioned. I thought for a long time that I wanted another partner to submit to, but then I realized, I love my switch relationship too much. Why should I change my dynamic to better fit what others understand as switch (the center of a hierarchal triad)? At first I was playing at the role of domme. But that doesn't mean "it" wasn't always there. For my life personally, I know it was, but it had been suppressed. I was able to play a role until it felt comfortable and natural and became who I am. "Who you are" is a choice in so much that you can make a decision and change yourself. If you make no choice, that it a choice too. As to whoever was talking about battle of wills on a daily basis; in my home, I'm in charge as a default. If he's feeling Domly or I'm feeling subby, we do something about it, but he knows unless he wants a fight to just go with it ;)

IronBear -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 10:55:33 AM)
I have several friends in the lifestyle in that they live it (as much as possible) 24/7 and who are switches. In a couple of cases they (the female switch) also has a sub. Another lady I know is also a Pro Domme who switches with her husband, she says this helps balance her.

CalifChick -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 11:27:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Another lady I know is also a Pro Domme who switches with her husband, she says this helps balance her. So some days she is dominant to him and some days she is submissive to him??? I'm so confused. Or are you saying that she is dominant to her professional clients and submissive to her husband? At the risk of offending my pro-domme and former-pro domme friends, I don't see a professional relationship as a dominant/submissive relationship, but one of topping/bottoming. I was listening to a friend, who identifies as a switch, talk about a romp in the sheets with her boyfriend. She said, "so then I said, you be the dominant now and do fun stuff to me!" I just snickered and said, "yeah, you're a switch, uh huh, right". Cali

IronBear -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 11:42:49 AM)
Not really, she tends to keep her private life separate from her business life. Its more the case of when she has had a full day of clients and she needs to relax, she prefers to become sub to her husband just as a few of the Gorean kajirae enjoy shedding their business life when they get home and serve their Master. Her hubby keeps away from the public scene but has a sub of his very own too.

leadership527 -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 12:12:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick So some days she is dominant to him and some days she is submissive to him??? I'm so confused. you know, I sympathize. We were at a MAsT meeting one time and a couple came in and introduced themselves as Switch M/s. Near as I could tell, he was the master sometimes and she other times. It made my brain bubble for a moment but then I figured it out. It doesn't matter. Whether or not it makes my brain blow up means nothing because for them this happened automatically and easily and wasn't an item of confusion. Consider... at the experiential level, their experience was identical to Carol's and mine. "At any given moment it is clearly true that someone is in charge and there is never any confusion about who's who." The fact that the role is portable between them is only really a problem if it causes problems which, for them, it didn't. I suspect that it would never be possible to enumerate the mechanics of how they sorted it out... I doubt they could give an explanation no matter how much they tried. Now, some might want to quibble about the M/s terminology but nobody did at that MAsT meeting and I won't. I figured that if they attended the meetings and the things everyone else talked about made sense and were relevant then they must be in the right place. Besides, I like being around happy couples :)

gungadin09 -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 12:45:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Reform quote: ORIGINAL: gungadin09 We are all "switches" in our lives, to some extent or other. Since (presumably) our personalities aren't what's changing from one example to the next, would it be fair to say that that's because in different circumstances we play different "roles"? If so, then where does the "role" or "choice" end and "who we really are" begin? It seems to me that you think that only one type of characteristic can be present in any one person. I fully believe I have both sub characteristics and domme ones. How I chose to act on them at any given point through my life have awarded me different labels over time. At first I was playing at the role of domme. But that doesn't mean "it" wasn't always there. For my life personally, I know it was, but it had been suppressed. I was able to play a role until it felt comfortable and natural and became who I am. "Who you are" is a choice in so much that you can make a decision and change yourself. If you make no choice, that it a choice too. Believe it or nor, that's actually the point i was trying to make in my OP, although i realise now that i phrased it terribly. i believe that "who we are" is the sum of our inborn characteristics, our experiences, and our choices; moreover, that that the lines separating the three are very blurry. "Who i am" has changed dramatically over the years, and continues to evolve. Even now, in this moment, i am capable of acting very submissively or very dominantly (and all the shades in between) according to what the circumstances demand. i am "playing a role" by responding to different stimuli, at least in the sense of making a choice. In the course of my life, i end up playing all these disparate roles, and yet none of them seems any more or less like "the real me". And i'm having some trouble wrapping my head around that. Actually, one of the things that brought this up is that i saw Reform's comment on another thread about how she was a submissive that turned into a Domme/switch because of a new relationship, and it got me to thinking... that's exactly the sort of thing that could happen to me, under the right circumstances. pam

ImaginativeWhims -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 1:18:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 Nope, not what I wanted to post about :) Insofar as "lifestyle switches", I personally have never subscribed to the boolean thinking that permeates BDSM. To me, "switch" seems like the most normal thing by far. The only question in my mind is "switch" when and under what circumstances. At least for me, the more closely I look at REAL humans, the more resistant they become to simple classifications and absolute statements. The bolded part here scares me a bit. Are you implying we're above real humans because we're not afraid to be honest about where we get our kicks? If so, I think I want a bronze statue of you in my front yard. Just sayin.

LadyPact -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 1:30:57 PM)
It's questions such as these that make Me want to steer away from the 'personality traits' argument. Folks who are in the switch category really are the same person, even though they are submissive in one dynamic a couple of years ago and are Dominant in the dynamic they might have today. Their personality didn't necessarily change. Instead they felt a different kind of energy depending on who they were interacting with. Some can feel both Dominant and submissive energy with the same person and instead feel their Dom or submissive side more depending on circumstances. I'm basing these comments on what I've heard from a number of switches over the years. I can't tell you how many times I've had people tell Me that they identify as switch, but when they interact with Me, I bring out the submissive part in them.

leadership527 -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 1:43:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ImaginativeWhims The bolded part here scares me a bit. Are you implying we're above real humans because we're not afraid to be honest about where we get our kicks? If so, I think I want a bronze statue of you in my front yard. ROFL... Uh... You'd be mistaking me with someone else... for starters someone who actually self identifies as a part of "us". You'll note that I usually say "BDSM'ers" as if they were someone other than me. No, I was suggesting that when you look at humans closely they are not simple and so simplistic statements are wildly inaccurate. Also, as I reread my post I realize again that I'm not talking about the same thing when I think of dom/sub/switch so I probably shouldn't have commented at all. I'm hoping one day soon I remember to stay out of any such conversation.

IronBear -> RE: Is there such a thing as a "lifestyle switch"? (2/20/2011 2:39:50 PM)
Jeff, my friend, you are a very wise man who knows who and what he is, usually knows when and when not to buy into debates so that often you often utter words of pure brilliance which should be saved as gems..

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