Has Anyone Seen This Yet??

Has Anyone Seen This Yet?? (Full Version)

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hlen5 -> Has Anyone Seen This Yet?? (2/16/2011 12:08:48 PM)
http://www.carbonnationmovie.com/

Fellow -> RE: Has Anyone Seen This Yet?? (2/16/2011 1:12:38 PM)
It is a positive message and OK. However, it will not have much effect in near future. It is directed towards (shrinking) upper middle class who has resources to do these things. Average Joe can not afford electric car or private windmill. The government is impotent. Billions of stimulus money were spent on green energy projects. Where are the results? No significant number of jobs or infrastructure were created except in China. Peak oil is here and in a decade it will force the transformation.

hlen5 -> RE: Has Anyone Seen This Yet?? (2/16/2011 2:00:08 PM)
How long are you willing to give the green industry to produce results? The money was earmarked for green projects just two years ago. When/where did you watch the movie?

joether -> RE: Has Anyone Seen This Yet?? (2/16/2011 2:36:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow It is a positive message and OK. However, it will not have much effect in near future. It is directed towards (shrinking) upper middle class who has resources to do these things. Average Joe can not afford electric car or private windmill. The government is impotent. Billions of stimulus money were spent on green energy projects. Where are the results? No significant number of jobs or infrastructure were created except in China. Peak oil is here and in a decade it will force the transformation. You really should get out more often from that dungeon you call a house. The green energy projects are aimed at getting people to look in to solar, wind and hydro energy as a means to not just meet the demands of the public, but keep the air/water/ground around them clean and viable for humans. I was watching a film the other day of an emerging company in Spain. They create solar farms. But not solar generation exactly. They set up a few hundred mirrors that redirect the sun's rays up to a tower construction (that must be 15-20 stories high). Within the top of this structure, the heat from the mirrors boils water that turns in to steam. That steam then generates the current needed. The problem: Start Up Costs. Generally, such an operation creates a plant on site, that builds everything needed for the operation. Once even 1/10th of the mirrors and tower (100% constructed) is in place, the energy generated builds the rest of the plant. Once 1/2 the facility is built, the energy to manufacture the remaining half drops to like 1/450th (the rest is sold on the grid). After the plant is built and in operation, the only costs are for labor. Water is generally abundant, sun is pretty abundant, and the materials are easily found. The only problem: The Start Up Costs. As I was watching that, I was thinking to myself: Why aren't we doing THAT, right here in the states? Don't ask me to give you a copy of where I saw it; as I cant remeber it. It had the feel of a documentary film to it. Very informative.

joether -> RE: Has Anyone Seen This Yet?? (2/16/2011 2:46:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 How long are you willing to give the green industry to produce results? We can deal with the problem now, or when we are behind the curve. One of those is the wise option, the other our metaphorical heads are stuck up are butts. The green industry is a relatively new industry, even though its been on the fringe for thirty years. Its gain respect as scientists start to see the affects (or after affects) of using oil , coal, and nuclear energy systems on a world wide level (not to mention heaps of data on state, county or reginal levels). Humans need good soil to grow crops. Those crops need the right sort of 'air' to 'breath'. Once those crops starting aborbing bad elements it gets translated into food we as humans, can not consume. Long term one could argue that limited food raises the price of said food. So, wouldn't it make sense that the soil, air and water are kept clean by using an energy source that isn't bad for the enviroment? Likewise, why not make green energy the next 'Dot Com'? Would generate tons of jobs, which would in affect, generate more jobs. Creates abundant power for the nation. And.....we stay wise to the failures of the Dot Com era of economics.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Has Anyone Seen This Yet?? (2/16/2011 3:01:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether As I was watching that, I was thinking to myself: Why aren't we doing THAT, right here in the states? Because its ridiculously inefficient compared to direct solar generation?

hlen5 -> RE: Has Anyone Seen This Yet?? (2/16/2011 8:25:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 How long are you willing to give the green industry to produce results? We can deal with the problem now, or when we are behind the curve. One of those is the wise option, the other our metaphorical heads are stuck up are butts. The green industry is a relatively new industry, even though its been on the fringe for thirty years. Its gain respect as scientists start to see the affects (or after affects) of using oil , coal, and nuclear energy systems on a world wide level (not to mention heaps of data on state, county or reginal levels). Humans need good soil to grow crops. Those crops need the right sort of 'air' to 'breath'. Once those crops starting aborbing bad elements it gets translated into food we as humans, can not consume. Long term one could argue that limited food raises the price of said food. So, wouldn't it make sense that the soil, air and water are kept clean by using an energy source that isn't bad for the enviroment? Likewise, why not make green energy the next 'Dot Com'? Would generate tons of jobs, which would in affect, generate more jobs. Creates abundant power for the nation. And.....we stay wise to the failures of the Dot Com era of economics. I couldn't agree more! Why not try to take the lead in this area??

Fellow -> RE: Has Anyone Seen This Yet?? (2/16/2011 9:59:18 PM)
quote: You really should get out more often from that dungeon you call a house. The green energy projects are aimed at getting people to look in to solar, wind and hydro energy as a means to not just meet the demands of the public, but keep the air/water/ground around them clean and viable for humans. I have no argument against green movement. All kind of nice things and inventions are being done. I was just pointing out that there are futuristic dreams and there is economic reality. The green energy projects numbers are totally inadequate. As you notice yourself, these projects do not generate high return on capital today (and this is the main reason the US falls behind). Military saving energy (in the movie) is totally ridiculous hypocrisy and an insult to a viewer. Local initiatives are necessary, but they do not make much change in macro picture. The main question is not in technology but how to change ideology. The movie tries to do it, but in idealistic way [good will of entrepreneurs]. Yes, super-rich can play a little PR campaign around the issue and we adore them even more. Communist China invests the most in green energy today. I guess it is to some extent the result of being communist (the government can force things to happen, I do not advocate communism). The net pollution by China is still increasing.

hlen5 -> RE: Has Anyone Seen This Yet?? (2/17/2011 8:13:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow ......All kind of nice things and inventions are being done. I was just pointing out that there are futuristic dreams and there is economic reality. The green energy projects numbers are totally inadequate........ Communist China invests the most in green energy today. I guess it is to some extent the result of being communist (the government can force things to happen, I do not advocate communism)..... The only way to get green tech more practical, efficient and less expensive is to keep working on it. Think of the original "car phones" that came in a bag vs the cell phones(mini pcs!) that we carry in our pockets today! I think China is taking the long view on green energy and I think we should too. I would love to see the US more like Samso, Denmark. I think it takes forward thinking people to make the innovations necessary to make green energy more practical.

DomYngBlk -> RE: Has Anyone Seen This Yet?? (2/17/2011 8:19:24 AM)
Thanks for that hlen....can't wait to see it

PyrotheClown -> RE: Has Anyone Seen This Yet?? (2/17/2011 1:48:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: joether As I was watching that, I was thinking to myself: Why aren't we doing THAT, right here in the states? Because its ridiculously inefficient compared to direct solar generation? OMFG....I'm actually agreeing with you on a political thread lol

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