In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (12/30/2010 7:20:18 PM)

In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks

- A California law that threatens attorneys with a $10,000 fine and up to year in jail if they charge clients in advance for negotiating mortgage loan modifications prohibits most borrowers from hiring a lawyer to represent them against the powerful banks, a homebuyer claims in Federal Court.

He adds: "The State of California imposes no similar restriction on the ability of a bank to hire a team of attorneys."Solano County resident Christopher Duenas says that California Senate Bill 94, which Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed into law in 2009, violates his rights to free speech, due process and equal protection by barring attorneys from accepting an advance fee for representing him in loan modifications and foreclosure negotiations."The State of California has made it a crime punishable by one year in jail, a fine of $10,000 and professional discipline for an attorney to represent a borrower in a dispute with a bank regarding a 'loan modification or other form of mortgage forbearance,'" the complaint states. "The State of California imposes no similar restriction on the ability of a bank to hire a team of attorneys."Duenas says that the bill, which was intended to stop loan modification consultants and real estate agents from charging advance fees, was enacted after Schwarzenegger pressured lawmakers to add attorneys to the list."Gov. Schwarzenegger's pressure on state legislators resulted from intense lobbying by several groups, including the banking industry, which feared that attorney representation of borrowers would prevent banks from having absolute control over their legal relationship with the borrower and the consequences of that relationship," the complaint states.


Since the bill became law, lawyers have refused to represent borrowers, fearing sanctions and jail time, the Duenas says. While borrowers may seek pro bono or deferred-payment legal assistance, this puts them at a disadvantage in negotiations with banks."The intended consequence is to chill free speech and to make reputable attorneys fear representing borrowers," the complaint states. "It is true that borrowers can attempt to find attorneys to represent them at no charge, or attorneys who agree to forego billing for fees earned for one to two years. But there is not a sufficient pool of such free legal assistance to serve the number of borrowers facing complex battles with their lenders. And if borrowers are forced to rely on volunteer legal assistance, the State of California should also have prohibited attorneys from representing banks on a fee-paying basis, and instead required the banks to seek exclusively volunteer legal assistance."Duenas seeks declaratory judgment stating that the law infringes on his ability to hire an attorney, in violation of the First and Fourteenth Amendments.He wants a preliminary and a permanent injunction barring enforcement of SB 94."Plaintiff seeks to have the same right that his adversary the bank has, which is to hire the attorney of his choice to provide advice and counsel and to represent him in his decisions regarding his mortgage and in his negotiations with his bank," Duenas says.He is represented by Sean Olender with Olender Pham of San Jose. http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/12/29/32946.htm




DarkSteven -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (12/30/2010 7:24:21 PM)

No way.  This is unbelievable...If the Obama administration finds out about this, it gives them wonderful PR in decrying the greedy banks subverting their well-intentioned legislation to modify loans.  A no-lose proposition for the administration, which will force a quick about-face by California, making the state and the banks look bad.  And the banks cannot afford bad PR now.




KenDckey -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (12/30/2010 8:48:47 PM)

Hey Steven   it is either that or as I hear soooooooooo many times.   California is setting a trend.  lol




truckinslave -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (12/30/2010 8:53:21 PM)

California is so ass-backwards.

Guys house is two weeks from foreclosure, which means he needs a lawyer bad.  So California says the guy has to find one who will work for free.

The last person out will not have to turn out the lights. The power will have already been out for weeks.




AnimusRex -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (12/30/2010 11:08:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
"Gov. Schwarzenegger's pressure on state legislators resulted from intense lobbying by several groups, including the banking industry, which feared that attorney representation of borrowers would prevent banks from having absolute control over their legal relationship with the borrower and the consequences of that relationship," the complaint states.


Another example of how California is not "business-friendly", I guess. Maybe all the wealthy people should flee to somewhere where the gummint doesn't have its socialist boot on the necks of the banks.




pahunkboy -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (12/31/2010 6:27:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

No way.  This is unbelievable...If the Obama administration finds out about this, it gives them wonderful PR in decrying the greedy banks subverting their well-intentioned legislation to modify loans.  A no-lose proposition for the administration, which will force a quick about-face by California, making the state and the banks look bad.  And the banks cannot afford bad PR now.



The banks do not care about bad PR.  Not much.

I seen on how people made all the payments and still had a foreclosure. 

I am glad I am not mixed up in this mess.




truckinslave -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (12/31/2010 7:22:03 AM)

"I seen on how people made all the payments and still had a foreclosure."

There may have been an isolated mistake or two; it's a big country, there are a lot of mortgages, and mistakes do happen. And, for every such actual screw-up there were undoubtedly many baseless claims of foreclosures of paid-up motgages. But to suggest this is somehow policy, or widespread?

For one thing, it's obvious financial suicide in this economy. Not to mention illegal and extremely easy to prove (unless you in fact mail the payments in cash).






pahunkboy -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (12/31/2010 9:19:10 AM)

http://4closurefraud.org/2010/12/31/robo-signing-the-dead-sign-affidavits-nationwide/




DarkSteven -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (12/31/2010 9:35:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

"I seen on how people made all the payments and still had a foreclosure."

There may have been an isolated mistake or two; it's a big country, there are a lot of mortgages, and mistakes do happen. And, for every such actual screw-up there were undoubtedly many baseless claims of foreclosures of paid-up motgages. But to suggest this is somehow policy, or widespread?

For one thing, it's obvious financial suicide in this economy. Not to mention illegal and extremely easy to prove (unless you in fact mail the payments in cash).



It IS an issue, truckinslave.  The problem is that the banks thought they had found an unlimited money machine in rushing through massive amounts of bad loans.  They got very good at processing them quickly, without due diligence.

Now that they are souring in a massive way, the banks cannot deal with the workload.  They're cutting corners and still not doing their jobs.

http://www.boston.com/realestate/news/blogs/renow/2010/03/new_bank_tactic.html

Another link: http://www.boston.com/realestate/news/blogs/renow/2010/12/banks_behaving.html




Termyn8or -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (12/31/2010 11:17:59 AM)

Direct to OP.

Interesting the wat they did that. By putting the regs on the lawyers, I see no way to fight it in court, on Constitutional grounds. The only saving grace is that lawyers themselves will probably mount a fight against it. For the money of course.

Not beating around the bush, I could make a backroom deal with a lawyer for such services somehow, but people shouldn't have to do that..

There will be a fight over this, however I can see some stop gap measures. Base the fee on a contingency. Any up front payments are not due until the end of the case, but that doesn't stop people from paying in advance. Then it would be like a retainer, which would not be illegal, unless the pricks really wrote it well. Is the lawyer barred from accepting advance payments period ? If that's the case it will be gone by dawn.

T




pahunkboy -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (12/31/2010 11:33:08 AM)

I have to wonder about some of these crazy judges.

I am trying to picture this happening locally- and while we have our share of nut shows-  I dont think this would stick here.




ricken -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (12/31/2010 11:40:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

No way.  This is unbelievable...If the Obama administration finds out about this, it gives them wonderful PR in decrying the greedy banks subverting their well-intentioned legislation to modify loans.  A no-lose proposition for the administration, which will force a quick about-face by California, making the state and the banks look bad.  And the banks cannot afford bad PR now.



I really don't see obama getting too involved in REALLY helping poor consumers.
Look at who is involved in his real estate deals.
Look at his vice president and the influence he had on consumer bankruptcy





claree -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (1/1/2011 2:08:47 PM)

I hadn't seen this story, but we have had a huge problem in California with shady real estate agents and attorneys who after the crash became shady loan modification agents/attorneys.  There's been lots of stories about the attorneys collecting several thousand dollars up front and then being "unavailable" and the house goes to foreclosure anyway.

I've seen a culture of "we deserve a free house" here, although it may be the same in other areas.  People purchased $300 and $400K homes with little more than minimum wage salary and truly believe that the pending foreclosure isn't their fault at all.  A home near me was sold for $300K to a WalMart greeter who made $400 a month payments for 18 months and then destroyed the house as revenge for the foreclosure.

I do have a question, though.  If you don't have sufficient income to make your house payments, what do you need an attorney for?  If your income is $40K a year and you bought a $400K house--not unusual here, no attorney is going to be able to fix that.




pahunkboy -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (1/1/2011 2:10:57 PM)

Good point-  if one cant make a payment how does one pay an atty.




DarkSteven -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (1/1/2011 7:28:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: claree

I do have a question, though.  If you don't have sufficient income to make your house payments, what do you need an attorney for?  If your income is $40K a year and you bought a $400K house--not unusual here, no attorney is going to be able to fix that.


If you can claim damages, you can get an attorney on contingency.

If your financial situation is completely screwed, you can pay an attorney what you ought to pay everyone else. The lawyer gets paid, and the others get stiffed.




Termyn8or -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (1/2/2011 4:08:31 AM)

FR

It took a while but I figured a way around it. Go to a lawyer for a free consultation and pay him $21 as a retainer now. Or if you know a lawyer you can just claim you did. That puts him on retainer before the action is at hand. Then he tells you verbally how much he wants and you pay it as part of his "fee program". That is a retainer, just as the salaries of the lawyers the banks have to pay. (that reminds me I owe WC a hundred, or something like that)

Tell me it won't work, tell me things are that different in CA. If so we need a rescue and relief fund to get people out of there. If due process is that hard to come by, most of them would be happy in Singapore, and the rest might like Cambodia or Iraq. At least I would.

Still waiting for updates on this. Really all this is moot. Lawyers run this country and if you think they are going to let something impede the flow of money, either you are mistaken or you underestimate them. This is likely to fizzle out in notime.

T




truckinslave -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (1/2/2011 5:53:40 PM)

Your link said nothing about PAID UP mortgages, pahunk. Not that I saw.....




truckinslave -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (1/2/2011 5:59:19 PM)

"One of the nation's leading banks has recently faced at least four lawsuits in different cities across the country, having allegedly foreclosed on and seized the wrong homes." Emphasis mine.

Mistakes happen. Lawyers make companies pay for those mistakes.

But it's accidents- not policy. Banks are just not out there deliberately, willy-nilly foreclosing on mortgages not in default.




Termyn8or -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (1/2/2011 7:43:01 PM)

FR

Business is business. Right now the market is so depressed that they almost want houses. Usually they would rather have the money, but they can see. Money is going out of style at the moment and property is a great hedge against inflation if you can afford it right now.

They would take every house in this country if they could, only the law stops them. The OP indicates that they want to fix that minor problem. Wouldn't you ?

But they're banks ! They must be trustworthy and honorable ! Yeah right.

It must be a mistake. Well so was the invention of freon. (I think) I don't know about you, but if I make a mistake that makes me money I am apt to continue making that mistake. Why not ?

It's in the computer and computers don't lie. It didn't lie when you went over your credit limit by one dollar and they socked you with $75 in charges. It didn't lie when your water bill came out to $4,000.

My buddy paid his house off. While it was mortgaged he supposedly missed one payment. Now we are talking about an ex marine here. He missed a wedding because it interfered with his exercise regime. You could set your watch to when this guy scratches his ass. He began sending the payments in the form of a cashier's check via certified mail. Another notice appears that they didn't get their money that month. He calls. He worked for the post office, which is neither here nor there, but he found out that his payment had been signed for upon delivery. On the phone with the bank, he asked who signed for it. It turns out the person who signed for it was the person on the phone right now !

The burden of proof is on you, to prove you made the payment. Not the other way around. Lost in the mail doesn't count. Go direct deposit, and hope you get to the bank machine in time, or another option is to let them hold on to a bunch of your money for a small fee.

Mistakes eh ?

There used to be a saying - don't attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. I don't believe that anymore. Fifty years of this bullshit proves otherwise.

T




pahunkboy -> RE: In a Final Insult to Homebuyers, California Loads the Dice for Banks (1/2/2011 7:54:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

"One of the nation's leading banks has recently faced at least four lawsuits in different cities across the country, having allegedly foreclosed on and seized the wrong homes." Emphasis mine.

Mistakes happen. Lawyers make companies pay for those mistakes.

But it's accidents- not policy. Banks are just not out there deliberately, willy-nilly foreclosing on mortgages not in default.



Hahaha.

Good one.

Next answer.




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