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De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 12:09:18 PM

pahunkboy

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Ok- ponder this. My neighbor claims she can not flush the the toilet if the power goes off.

She has city water. Heats with electric.

I have no idea how she concludes this.

Yet- older houses can be jerry rigged-- any idea what the deal is??

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 12:11:18 PM

DarkSteven

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At the local grocery's toilets, the flushing is electrically activated, either by motion or by pressing a button. Maybe she has a toilet like that?

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 12:11:36 PM

DomKen

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The only real issue would be if her water pressure is so low that she has a supplemntal pump to bring the pressure up. Seems unlikely.

Simple way to verify is to flip her breakers and flush the toilet and see what happens.

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 12:16:05 PM

pahunkboy

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The toilet is the standard $39 type.

If she keeps a jug of water- and pours it in- then she can flush it she said.

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 1:27:41 PM

DomKen

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She should have no troule flushing with the power off then.

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 2:10:14 PM

DesFIP

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Is her tank filling properly? Because the tank ought to have enough water for two flushes before it needs to refill from the main water tank, and that one requires electricity. During ice storms, I fill the tub so I can flush without hauling a bucket up from the basement where I draw it off the main tank and the hot water heater.

$39 cheapo toilet? Then it doesn't flush properly so she has to flush twice to get all the fecal matter in the drain pipe. At which point there's no more water in the tank. A better toilet will have high pressure flushing so she doesn't need to flush in multiple times.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 12/30/2010 2:15:19 PM >

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 2:11:19 PM

hertz

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She could have a Macerator. You often find these in flats and conversions because it allows for the use of small-bore sewer pipe. basically, it's a box with a whizzing blade inside it. The poo goes in, gets chopped into mush, and pumped out. It needs power to operate...

Ach - didn't read your second post. If it's a case of the cistern not filling when the electricity is off, then that strongly suggests a pumped water supply to the cistern. Maybe it uses rain-water scavenged from gutters and stored in a lower tank - that would be pretty cool.

< Message edited by hertz -- 12/30/2010 2:15:32 PM >

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 2:14:53 PM

pahunkboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Is her tank filling properly? Because the tank ought to have enough water for two flushes before it needs to refill from the main water tank, and that one requires electricity. During ice storms, I fill the tub so I can flush without hauling a bucket up from the basement where I draw it off the main tank and the hot water heater.

...actually her toilet is sluggish. Almost like it needs a snake to clear the pipes.

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 2:20:40 PM

pahunkboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

She could have a Macerator. You often find these in flats and conversions because it allows for the use of small-bore sewer pipe. basically, it's a box with a whizzing blade inside it. The poo goes in, gets chopped into mush, and pumped out. It needs power to operate...

Ach - didn't read your second post. If it's a case of the cistern not filling when the electricity is off, then that strongly suggests a pumped water supply to the cistern. Maybe it uses rain-water scavenged from gutters and stored in a lower tank - that would be pretty cool.

A tree snags her wire- so she was out of power over 1/2 the house- is there anything on the street- that lack of electric would cut off city water? When it is just one house?

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 2:34:34 PM

hertz

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quote:

A tree snags her wire- so she was out of power over 1/2 the house- is there anything on the street- that lack of electric would cut off city water? When it is just one house?

Now it's getting weird. Do you know the answers to the following questions?

She lost power over only half the house? That suggests a problem with her internal wiring, or a breaker. If it was a problem outside the house, surely she would lose all power? It could be that a temporary interruption caused by a tree branch outside has caused a circuit fuse to blow covering part of the house. I wonder what circuits she lost? Lights? Lights and sockets? sockets only?

You say her water has cut off. Is that all water - taps and everything? Or just her toilet? If just the toilet, and if half the house is still without power, then I'd be thinking about looking at the fuseboard/consumer unit for flipped switches...

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 5:27:23 PM

pahunkboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

A tree snags her wire- so she was out of power over 1/2 the house- is there anything on the street- that lack of electric would cut off city water? When it is just one house?

Now it's getting weird. Do you know the answers to the following questions?

She lost power over only half the house? That suggests a problem with her internal wiring, or a breaker. If it was a problem outside the house, surely she would lose all power? It could be that a temporary interruption caused by a tree branch outside has caused a circuit fuse to blow covering part of the house. I wonder what circuits she lost? Lights? Lights and sockets? sockets only?

You say her water has cut off. Is that all water - taps and everything? Or just her toilet? If just the toilet, and if half the house is still without power, then I'd be thinking about looking at the fuseboard/consumer unit for flipped switches...

I will have to ask her. She went to bed early tonight- under the weather...

Silly me- did not think of those questions. Thanks!

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 5:30:14 PM

sophia37

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You probably got the story confused. But yes. If I have no power my pump will not run, then no water. No water no filled tank. No filled tank no flush.

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 5:32:12 PM

TheBanshee

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She may actually be able to flush, but if her water pump is electric, it won't refill the bowl - I had an apartment that had this issue, when the power was out I had no running water. I always kept a couple of gallon jugs for such an event.

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 5:35:56 PM

pahunkboy

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Hi Ladies- but she has city water like I do.

The sewer is also a city sewer.

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 6:54:15 PM

DesFIP

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It's possible that her toilet needs snaking but more likely that it's too cheap to work effectively. The modern low flush toilets use very little water in comparison to the 5 gallon ones of our youth. Five gallons was a flood that pushed stuff through no matter what. Then came the 3.5 ones which saved a little water but still mainly worked. With the modern 1.6 gallon ones, you need it to be high pressure or it won't work. Lowes sells one for about $100 that claims it will flush a golf ball. I'm betting she upgraded a while back and doesn't have a good toilet.

As far as the electricity going out only in half the house, that baffles me. Makes me wonder if her panel is 200 amps or just 100. Considering her age, she may still be using the smaller panel that was fine 40 years ago but won't run modern homes without the circuit breakers shutting off whenever an appliance comes on.

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 6:58:00 PM

pahunkboy

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When the power went out in half the house- the power company came out- and did something to the outside wire. They did not charge her anything.

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 7:01:18 PM

DesFIP

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Okay, then it should be fixed now. I steer clear of dabbling in electricity or propane. Most stuff, we'll try to fix ourselves but it it's beyond just changing an outlet I call an electrician.

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/30/2010 7:14:42 PM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

She lost power over only half the house? That suggests a problem with her internal wiring, or a breaker. If it was a problem outside the house, surely she would lose all power?

Nope. The incoming power is 240V. That's two 120V lines, and a neutral. She had got one of the 120V lines cut, so she had one of them fully working. So she would have half her 120V lines nonworking, and her 240V appliances (dryer, maybe range) would not work either.

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"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/31/2010 12:17:59 AM

Termyn8or

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Yup, and the stupid idiots have my neutral fused out there. If anything ever happens I am going for the jugular. Me and Nationwide will be on the same side.

T

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RE: De-construct this jerry rig pls - 12/31/2010 2:41:04 AM

hertz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

She lost power over only half the house? That suggests a problem with her internal wiring, or a breaker. If it was a problem outside the house, surely she would lose all power?

Nope. The incoming power is 240V. That's two 120V lines, and a neutral. She had got one of the 120V lines cut, so she had one of them fully working. So she would have half her 120V lines nonworking, and her 240V appliances (dryer, maybe range) would not work either.

D'oh! UK tends not to work like this. The supply on the cable between overhead poles outside will be three phase, but the houses generally share the phases, which are separated at an overhead transformer. Three phase supply is used in industry but not (usually) in homes. This means if a phase goes you might lose your entire house supply whilst your neighbour is untouched. It is very unusual for a UK home to lose part of the internal supply only from external circumstances.

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