RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (Full Version)

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LadyConstanze -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 2:02:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Steponme73

Ask Al Gore why it is so damn cold when the earth is warming at an "alarming" rate!!!


Yeah, the concept of climate changes is really terrible hard to comprehend...




pahunkboy -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 2:03:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steponme73

Ask Al Gore why it is so damn cold when the earth is warming at an "alarming" rate!!!


LOL.

He will say that when it is cold- that means the earth is warming.  The kicker is people actually beleive that!




DesFIP -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 2:04:01 PM)

For outside pipes, try heat tape. Just make sure to closely inspect it every spring because once it starts to crack it can cause a fire. It should last two - three years without trouble though.




LadyConstanze -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 2:04:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steponme73

Ask Al Gore why it is so damn cold when the earth is warming at an "alarming" rate!!!


LOL.

He will say that when it is cold- that means the earth is warming.  The kicker is people actually beleive that!




The kicker is that the WHOLE PLANET is experiencing massive climatic changes, did you miss them?




pahunkboy -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 2:07:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steponme73

Ask Al Gore why it is so damn cold when the earth is warming at an "alarming" rate!!!


LOL.

He will say that when it is cold- that means the earth is warming.  The kicker is people actually beleive that!




The kicker is that the WHOLE PLANET is experiencing massive climatic changes, did you miss them?


The scam is eugenics based.   It is meant to deny humans basic needs that are required for life.

So who shall die first?

WHO?




LadyConstanze -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 2:08:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

For outside pipes, try heat tape. Just make sure to closely inspect it every spring because once it starts to crack it can cause a fire. It should last two - three years without trouble though.



Never heard about it but we changed it now anyway, I think when they modernized the house they tried to make the changes not obvious and keep everything the style when it was build (sometime in 1780 if the papers are correct) that's why they used the small copper thing, since the pipes had to be replaced, it made sense to all have them on the inside, even if they are on the outside wall.




LadyConstanze -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 2:10:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy


The scam is eugenics based.   It is meant to deny humans basic needs that are required for life.

So who shall die first?

WHO?




OK, blizzards and cold winters are now a conspiracy.... And you learned that where? Now I remember, you think universities don't produce anything of value because you don't need a university to work in a factory or drive a truck...




RapierFugue -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 2:11:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steponme73

Ask Al Gore why it is so damn cold when the earth is warming at an "alarming" rate!!!


LOL.

He will say that when it is cold- that means the earth is warming.  The kicker is people actually beleive that!


Is there any subject on which you're not entirely, 100%, clueless?

Small-scale, short time-period climatic conditions (which these are) have nothing whatsoever to do with ongoing, global average temperature changes, at least not within the parameter ranges likely to be seen in the next 50-100 years.

Global average temperature increases may well give us more extreme winter weather, not less.




Aneirin -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 2:33:36 PM)

Perhaps because we are having a particularly cold winter this year, the feeling is that everything is falling apart, that is because we have had mild winters over the last twenty years or so, although I can remember weather as bad from my youth, so the reality might just be, we have become too soft. The other thing that strikes me, is the belief that man rules the world, well, the civililised western world at least, and with that belief in our infrastructure, we tend to forget just what this planet can do. Perhaps the planet is just reminding us who is the boss here, for as demonstrated, it can wipe us out with ease, our infrastructure will not hold up to the planet's actions for too long before it fails. Now I believe that man can  survive for three days without water, just to throw in an example of what could happen, extreme cold or drought via extremes of weather, which we are not geared up for.

Due to my past, in my house, I keep portable multifuel cookers and fuel, flint and steel ignition equipment candles, torches, water filters, water purifiers and sterilising tablets and loads of tinned food, I am aware infrastructure can fail, just like the services in my house, so I am prepared for what comes, if it comes, failing that, I use the stuff for backpacking and bivvying during other times of the year. For going out, I have snow shoes and ice cleats, if it gets that bad, and loads of winter gear and I don't have central heating in my place, and only bought an oil fired convection heater only two weeks ago, the first winter I have been forced to get heating in the last five years.

As to this winter being the coldest, I seriously doubt that, and it's not over yet. But one thing is of interest, the yachties and commercial fishermen around here have noticed something, every time the US Eastern seaboard experiences extremes of weather, within two weeks later, the UK will get another blast, so seven to ten days, maybe a few more or a few less, the snow will be back in the UK and when that comes, it will be back to headless chicken mode and woe is us again and with that the press having a field day. The media of course I believe exasperates the problem, by feeding information that people don't really need to know.




LadyConstanze -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 2:46:25 PM)

Actually a couple of my friends work for universities and they are regularly on stations in Norway that are in the arctic circle, about 5 years ago they noticed that the consistency of the snow had changed, something nobody ever remembers having seen or experienced, the ice was actually melting, even the grandparents never experienced that... As to the media exaggerating it, you must be kidding, I tend to trust scientists and they tend to think it's actually downplayed...




IanB -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 4:07:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Actually a couple of my friends work for universities and they are regularly on stations in Norway that are in the arctic circle, about 5 years ago they noticed that the consistency of the snow had changed, something nobody ever remembers having seen or experienced, the ice was actually melting, even the grandparents never experienced that... As to the media exaggerating it, you must be kidding, I tend to trust scientists and they tend to think it's actually downplayed...



Here in Austria, I occasionally chat with older people,in their 60's and 70's. They all say the winters are much milder than they used to be, that there is much less snow on the ground in winter. 30-40 years ago in Vienna in their gardens, the snow covered the ground the whole winter, and they were shoveling fresh snow almost every week. These days the garden is green through the winter, and they shovel snow 2-3 times each winter.

Sure it's cold now, but it seems the cold we have now is today the exception. But that exception seems to have been the rule 40 years ago. So how do you interpret it?

I'd call that a change in climate.

The only thing I object to is how the politicians are handling it. They are taxing car ownership and usage heavily, but these account for at most 5% of the pollution. The rest is industry. Why do we as small individuals have to bear the pain of saving 1% of the total pollution when a far greater saving could be made with cleaner industry. Fix them up first, then worry about our cars.

_____________________________
There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!
OK, and what about the other E? ;)




LadyConstanze -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 5:07:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: IanB


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Actually a couple of my friends work for universities and they are regularly on stations in Norway that are in the arctic circle, about 5 years ago they noticed that the consistency of the snow had changed, something nobody ever remembers having seen or experienced, the ice was actually melting, even the grandparents never experienced that... As to the media exaggerating it, you must be kidding, I tend to trust scientists and they tend to think it's actually downplayed...



Here in Austria, I occasionally chat with older people,in their 60's and 70's. They all say the winters are much milder than they used to be, that there is much less snow on the ground in winter. 30-40 years ago in Vienna in their gardens, the snow covered the ground the whole winter, and they were shoveling fresh snow almost every week. These days the garden is green through the winter, and they shovel snow 2-3 times each winter.

Sure it's cold now, but it seems the cold we have now is today the exception. But that exception seems to have been the rule 40 years ago. So how do you interpret it?

I'd call that a change in climate.

The only thing I object to is how the politicians are handling it. They are taxing car ownership and usage heavily, but these account for at most 5% of the pollution. The rest is industry. Why do we as small individuals have to bear the pain of saving 1% of the total pollution when a far greater saving could be made with cleaner industry. Fix them up first, then worry about our cars.

_____________________________
There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!
OK, and what about the other E? ;)



Well yes, the changes in climate aren't natural and because in Austria the winters are milder it doesn't mean that that happens everywhere, polar caps melting is a serious reason for concern. I also don't agree with how the politicians handle it, personally I think they should tax those gas guzzling cars to high heaven, along with products that cause a lot of pollution. In case anybody needs a big car as a penis extension, they can pay for the privilege of polluting the environment. The "let everybody else start, not me" mentality is a bit odd.

I live in a typical middle class area, everybody HAS to have 2 cars (I don't really don't need a 2nd car) and the 2nd car - used to go to supermarkets or run the kid to school and back - is usually a big 4 wheel drive, typically a Range Rover and they all complain about the petrol prices, I think petrol is still too cheap judging by their choice of cars.




RapierFugue -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 5:19:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Well yes, the changes in climate aren't natural and because in Austria the winters are milder it doesn't mean that that happens everywhere, polar caps melting is a serious reason for concern. I also don't agree with how the politicians handle it, personally I think they should tax those gas guzzling cars to high heaven, along with products that cause a lot of pollution. In case anybody needs a big car as a penis extension, they can pay for the privilege of polluting the environment. The "let everybody else start, not me" mentality is a bit odd.

I live in a typical middle class area, everybody HAS to have 2 cars (I don't really don't need a 2nd car) and the 2nd car - used to go to supermarkets or run the kid to school and back - is usually a big 4 wheel drive, typically a Range Rover and they all complain about the petrol prices, I think petrol is still too cheap judging by their choice of cars.

What most people would tend to look for in such situations would be fairness; that those who pollute most should pay most. In which case private car owners should be paying a great deal less for motoring than industry does for (not) cleaning its act up.

But, as big companies are more powerful influencers of political will (because they provide much of the financial backing) it sadly falls on the poor motorist, yet again, to bear the brunt of costs. It's bullshit, it's been going on for years and most likely won't stop for some time, if ever, and the greatest sadness is when you see people who buy into the bullshit - it's like watching turkeys voting for Christmas.

I don't drive a big 4x4, but then I don't have a family* to transport and keep safe. If I did I'd certainly consider a large 4x4 or SUV - they're safer in impacts for rear seat passengers than a lot of conventional vehicles, including estates, and they're versatile enough to be able to accommodate larger numbers and/or loads.

Industry needs to get its act together first; only after they've done their bit can the powers that be start with those contributing far less to the overall effect. Sadly though, as I've said, the snow-job of misinformation by the green and other political sectors has ensured that anyone who talks sense on the subject is quickly shouted down by idiots.

*and have thus made the single biggest contribution to resource conservation possible, so where's my lower petrol prices?




LadyConstanze -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 6:34:57 PM)

If you are having one child and you use a Range Rover to drive it to school and back and do your supermarket run, drive to the gym and the yoga class (I'm going to the same, takes me a whooping 10 minutes to walk there, takes them longer as they drive around and around to look for a parking space, can't possibly WALK on your way to a workout, what a concept, shocking) they can pay for it. Seriously, driving a kids in the age range of 7 to 16 to school when there is a bus stop around the corner and the schools in the area are all easily reachable by public transportation, we're not talking about a high crime area, I'd think they are not really teaching their kids how to be slightly responsible. With very small kids I would understand but seriously, from a certain age on they should be able to take a bus. Also several kids go to the same school, but they all have to be driven there in separate cars, yet you always hear the parents complain about the petrol prices...

And there are families that can't afford big cars to drive their kids to school, those kids have to take public transportation (again what a shocking concept), I guess they will be damaged for life...




pahunkboy -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 6:37:12 PM)

quote:

It is meant to deny humans basic needs that are required for life.
quote:

ORIGINAL: IanB


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Actually a couple of my friends work for universities and they are regularly on stations in Norway that are in the arctic circle, about 5 years ago they noticed that the consistency of the snow had changed, something nobody ever remembers having seen or experienced, the ice was actually melting, even the grandparents never experienced that... As to the media exaggerating it, you must be kidding, I tend to trust scientists and they tend to think it's actually downplayed...



Here in Austria, I occasionally chat with older people,in their 60's and 70's. They all say the winters are much milder than they used to be, that there is much less snow on the ground in winter. 30-40 years ago in Vienna in their gardens, the snow covered the ground the whole winter, and they were shoveling fresh snow almost every week. These days the garden is green through the winter, and they shovel snow 2-3 times each winter.

Sure it's cold now, but it seems the cold we have now is today the exception. But that exception seems to have been the rule 40 years ago. So how do you interpret it?

I'd call that a change in climate.

The only thing I object to is how the politicians are handling it. They are taxing car ownership and usage heavily, but these account for at most 5% of the pollution. The rest is industry. Why do we as small individuals have to bear the pain of saving 1% of the total pollution when a far greater saving could be made with cleaner industry. Fix them up first, then worry about our cars.

_____________________________
There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!
OK, and what about the other E? ;)




It is meant to deny humans basic needs that are required for life.




LadyConstanze -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 6:47:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy


It is meant to deny humans basic needs that are required for life.



WTF are you talking about???? Global warming, a sad fact that is happening and one aspect of it are unusual weather changes world wide, like warmer winters in one place, much colder winters in another place, erratic weather changes do happen, how is that denying basic needs? What do you require for life and what is denied to you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

It isn't a conspiracy to deny you your burger, it really happens, remember Heathrow and lots of snow that usually didn't happen.... It's really not Dr. No arranging all of it in his lair with a big computer... I don't have kids, I possibly shouldn't be too concerned about simple stuff like air, clean water, an environment that is stable, melting polar caps, for the next generations, but somehow I think just because I don't have kids is not a good enough reason to trash the planet for future generations.




pahunkboy -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 6:55:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy


It is meant to deny humans basic needs that are required for life.



WTF are you talking about???? Global warming, a sad fact that is happening and one aspect of it are unusual weather changes world wide, like warmer winters in one place, much colder winters in another place, erratic weather changes do happen, how is that denying basic needs? What do you require for life and what is denied to you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

It isn't a conspiracy to deny you your burger, it really happens, remember Heathrow and lots of snow that usually didn't happen.... It's really not Dr. No arranging all of it in his lair with a big computer... I don't have kids, I possibly shouldn't be too concerned about simple stuff like air, clean water, an environment that is stable, melting polar caps, for the next generations, but somehow I think just because I don't have kids is not a good enough reason to trash the planet for future generations.



You need to live as the Amish do for 6 months.  Then come tell me about basic human needs.




RapierFugue -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 6:56:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

If you are having one child and you use a Range Rover to drive it to school and back and do your supermarket run, drive to the gym and the yoga class (I'm going to the same, takes me a whooping 10 minutes to walk there, takes them longer as they drive around and around to look for a parking space, can't possibly WALK on your way to a workout, what a concept, shocking) they can pay for it.

You have, yet again, completely missed the point. Cars are a very small proportion of the overall problem, and yet motorists are unfairly targeted by certain governments (most especially the UK, but also several other European governments) in their taxation of petrol, road fund licence (more tax) (which doesn't even get spent on the roads) and levies on car insurance.

It's unfair, disproportional, and wrong. A few idiot greens spouting bullshit, or holier-than-thou types who would rather we were all still back in the Dark Ages and walking everywhere, doesn't make the persecution of motorists fair, reasonable or right.




LadyConstanze -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/30/2010 7:01:51 PM)

Well, you know what they say about opinions, they're like ****, everybody has one, you're certainly entitled to yours, maybe if people would walk around the block once in a while they wouldn't have a less problems with obesity, and despite it being a "small problem" it is a problem, but I guess there will always be the odd idiot who's too grand to use public transportation arguing his right to pollute the air as he needs to drive to get cigarettes... Have a nice day.




RapierFugue -> RE: UK: WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS... (12/31/2010 1:22:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Well, you know what they say about opinions, they're like ****, everybody has one, you're certainly entitled to yours, maybe if people would walk around the block once in a while they wouldn't have a less problems with obesity, and despite it being a "small problem" it is a problem, but I guess there will always be the odd idiot who's too grand to use public transportation arguing his right to pollute the air as he needs to drive to get cigarettes... Have a nice day.

Nice reply. You managed to, once again, complete miss the point of my and other's posts, while being insulting and labelling people selfish when they're not actually the problem. The person driving a well-designed, modern vehicle, regardless of size, isn't "polluting the air" to any significant degree. Indeed, in more polluted areas of the world the air coming out the back of the vehicle is cleaner than the stuff going in the front.

In terms of global warming, modern private vehicles are not a significant contributor, even if you do buy the theory that the current climatic temperature changes are wholly man-made (and that’s not a given, despite what some “experts” would have you believe). So what it comes down to isn’t people being “selfish”, it’s that people are not doing what you want them to. Those are your issues, not theirs, and it’s unfair of you to project your personal policies onto them.

Successive governments in European nations have been happy to jump on board the “bash the motorist” bandwagon because it’s a rich source of funding through taxation, and thus gives them pots of money to prop up their fiscal incompetence. The propaganda and bullshit surrounding this multi-billion dollar/pound/euro lie has now reached the point where millions of sheep blithely accept “truths” that are anything but, and (as I previously stated) anyone who dares swim against the tide of lies by (for example) demanding that industry does its bit first and foremost is labelled “selfish”. Congratulations; you are now officially a slave of the propaganda machine.

As one other item of thought on the topic of your ill-informed and ill-researched rant against “4x4” owners, consider the following; in your world, vehicles like 4x4s would be outlawed for any but the uses you deem “correct”, and vehicles like hybrids would be promoted as “good”, but in actual fact the direct environmental impact of such vehicles, when you take into account the materials used in their construction, the distances those materials have to be moved around the world in order to convert them to useful items, the appalling environmental impact of converting those materials into useful batteries, their capacity to be themselves recycled (abysmal for anything that contains electric motors and batteries BTW), their cost of maintenance (significantly worse than more simple, conventional designs, as can be seen by considering the fact that the “hybrid” parts of the drive-train often have a significantly lower warranty life than the rest of the vehicle, and that no-one has yet designed a hybrid power-train capable of reliable use beyond the 100,000 mile mark) and their lifespan when measured against their cost of construction, is worse than for a well-designed “conventional” vehicle with a well designed, petrol or diesel engine. The fact that hybrids are becoming more fashionable, and that the numbers of them being produced is increasing, is testament not so much to their environmental impact, but more to the numbers of people blithely accepting the erroneous propaganda being spouted by those with a vested interest.

As to “public transport”, it’s largely a joke outside of major conurbations; there was an excellent piece on the comparative costs and timings of rural public transport vs. personal transport a while back (by one of the broadsheets, IIRC), and it concluded that, for the majority of people, public transport in rural areas was slower, much less convenient and comfortable, and (despite being effectively subsidised by taxes raised on private vehicles) more expensive for anyone not at either end of a designated, single-journey, route – in other words, almost everyone.

You don't like 4x4s. That's fine. I can’t say I'm much of a fan myself either, although for different reasons. But please don't try to pretend that your objection to them is anything other than personal prejudice, because to label their users “selfish”, in global environmental terms, is wholly incorrect.

As for your patronising “have a nice day” whine, I’ll have whatever sort of day I choose to, thanks all the same.




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