Gay rights in the US military

Gay rights in the US military (Full Version)

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Jaybeee -> Gay rights in the US military (12/15/2010 4:22:40 PM)
"Out" Gays Wanted in the US Army!! The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy has been finally reversed. This could be a golden chance for the usmc to prove, finally, that is is as LGBT -friendly as any other government department, like the Internal Revenue, which has a long and proud history of offering equal opportunity employment to openly homosexual men and women. Personally I think an armed gay man has just as fighting spirit and tenacity as any hetero. We all know barrack-room language can be pretty bawdy to say the least, so I don't see why a gay private can't express sexual appreciation for a colleague at chow time. I think though, the proudest moment for the usmc will be the first time that two unit members, who fought together, get married in a gay ceremony - in FULL dress uniform. It can happen. I wonder if, when the words, "You may now kiss the groom" are uttered, the congregation will throw their hats in the air??

KenDckey -> RE: Gay rights in the US military (12/15/2010 4:28:11 PM)
Link didn't work. Got another one that changed the law?

jlf1961 -> RE: Gay rights in the US military (12/15/2010 4:38:01 PM)
Actually, the House voted on a stand alone bill to end DADT, HOWEVER, the senate has yet to vote on the stand alone bill. In other words, the law still stands. The resolution to end DADT has to pass both the senate and the house, then be signed by the president.

tazzygirl -> RE: Gay rights in the US military (12/15/2010 10:37:21 PM)
Talk about being a hypocrite.

DMFParadox -> RE: Gay rights in the US military (12/15/2010 11:14:00 PM)
I've broached this topic before. Playing devil's advocate: One positive benefit of homophobia - according to some theories, this relates to how homophobia developed in western culture - is that it dampens wartime rape. Warriors raping the losers was very, very common to almost all preindustrialized cultures we know of. Further, it relates to power and status in ways that are hard to discuss. Mind you, I'm not speaking to men raping women, which was equally prevalent. I'm speaking to male-on-male rape. To be the victim of such is to lose a lot of status in many military cultures. So rape within a military is also problematic; they won't get reported as often, and the incentive to act aggressively is greater. I think we're probably at a point now where we can be open about sexuality and mitigate the rampant abuse of past militaries, but it bears careful watching. 20th century armies had almost as bad a record as previous ones, and the scope was far larger. We shall see what the 21st century reveals.

KenDckey -> RE: Gay rights in the US military (12/16/2010 6:02:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Actually, the House voted on a stand alone bill to end DADT, HOWEVER, the senate has yet to vote on the stand alone bill. In other words, the law still stands. The resolution to end DADT has to pass both the senate and the house, then be signed by the president. That is what I thought. Seems like someone is sending out misinformation.

DomKen -> RE: Gay rights in the US military (12/16/2010 6:52:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DMFParadox I've broached this topic before. Playing devil's advocate: One positive benefit of homophobia - according to some theories, this relates to how homophobia developed in western culture - is that it dampens wartime rape. Warriors raping the losers was very, very common to almost all preindustrialized cultures we know of. Further, it relates to power and status in ways that are hard to discuss. Mind you, I'm not speaking to men raping women, which was equally prevalent. I'm speaking to male-on-male rape. To be the victim of such is to lose a lot of status in many military cultures. So rape within a military is also problematic; they won't get reported as often, and the incentive to act aggressively is greater. I think we're probably at a point now where we can be open about sexuality and mitigate the rampant abuse of past militaries, but it bears careful watching. 20th century armies had almost as bad a record as previous ones, and the scope was far larger. We shall see what the 21st century reveals. What a load of bull. The fact is that prior to christianity spreading middle east values the west had a very relaxed view toward homosexuality. Military cultures did not view homosexual relations amongst soldiers as anything particularly unusual (see Sparta). This was also true in the East where samurai commonly had other samurai as lovers.

hlen5 -> RE: Gay rights in the US military (12/16/2010 4:00:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee ............................We all know barrack-room language can be pretty bawdy to say the least,....................... How would YOU know??

Jaybeee -> RE: Gay rights in the US military (12/16/2010 4:19:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee ............................We all know barrack-room language can be pretty bawdy to say the least,....................... How would YOU know?? "Know thine enemy", dear. And how about you? Don't you believe a couple of burly Green Berets should be allowed kiss passionately in the rec room while their buddies play Pool??

KenDckey -> RE: Gay rights in the US military (12/16/2010 8:39:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee ............................We all know barrack-room language can be pretty bawdy to say the least,....................... How would YOU know?? "Know thine enemy", dear. And how about you? Don't you believe a couple of burly Green Berets should be allowed kiss passionately in the rec room while their buddies play Pool?? You may have been watching to many movies Jaybeee. First, there are regulations about who can associate with whom. Secondly, did you know that public affection in uniform is against regulations? Third, the army doesn't have any rec rooms, they have day rooms and not all of them have pool tables. Fourth, who cares.

lazarus1983 -> RE: Gay rights in the US military (12/16/2010 9:24:58 PM)
Unless you've actually served, you DON'T know, jaybee. Doesn't matter how many books you've read or how many episodes of NCIS you've watched. That's one of those things that has to be experienced to be understood.

Charles6682 -> RE: Gay rights in the US military (12/16/2010 10:57:44 PM)
There are many other free nation's that allow their troop's to serve openly.They seem to be doing fine.Why would it be any different in our armed force's?Clearly many in our Armed Force's are not against it.This is a matter of doing the right thing.DADT should be repealed.

DMFParadox -> RE: Gay rights in the US military (12/17/2010 8:20:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DMFParadox I've broached this topic before. Playing devil's advocate: One positive benefit of homophobia - according to some theories, this relates to how homophobia developed in western culture - is that it dampens wartime rape. Warriors raping the losers was very, very common to almost all preindustrialized cultures we know of. Further, it relates to power and status in ways that are hard to discuss. Mind you, I'm not speaking to men raping women, which was equally prevalent. I'm speaking to male-on-male rape. To be the victim of such is to lose a lot of status in many military cultures. So rape within a military is also problematic; they won't get reported as often, and the incentive to act aggressively is greater. I think we're probably at a point now where we can be open about sexuality and mitigate the rampant abuse of past militaries, but it bears careful watching. 20th century armies had almost as bad a record as previous ones, and the scope was far larger. We shall see what the 21st century reveals. What a load of bull. The fact is that prior to christianity spreading middle east values the west had a very relaxed view toward homosexuality. Military cultures did not view homosexual relations amongst soldiers as anything particularly unusual (see Sparta). This was also true in the East where samurai commonly had other samurai as lovers. Negative on that, chum. Germanic epic traditions have a lot of gay bashing, which develops further as the civilization matured. It could be said that Middle Eastern values influenced this progression, but it was already gaining traction by the time Christianity got there. Correlation, not causation. Most telling are the changing views on thralls. To be a thrall was to be a sex toy; and by proximity, to be a 'bottom' sex partner was to be a thrall. As attitudes towards the practice changed, so did attitudes towards homosexuality. They were fairly closely tied in pre-christian Europe. Not that there's anything like a straight line in any of this. During the Renaissance, homosexuality was encouraged among certain sets, and discouraged among others. It would take books to describe, and researchers/historians writing papers and such... oh look at that, there are some.

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