Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (Full Version)

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ownedbyPF -> Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/7/2010 11:28:45 PM)

I was reading in the other thread about punishment dynamics which had a thing or two about just sitting down and talking it out. I have seen this idea before, and I wanted to post on it, but I didn't want to derail that thread. I agree there needs to be conversation. My Owner always talks everything over. What happened, why it happened, what needs to be done differently next time. All good.

However, we don't operate in the fashion of obey or leave. We operate under, obey, be whipped, obey :) Thank God we do because if not, I wouldn't be with him. I can't help that simple fact. I have found that, for me, my obedience must be something that is demanded. I want to obey. I want to be pleasing to him. Yet, I need it to be forced from me. If it isn't forced, then to me, it's just a request and I am selfish enough, or near sighted enough, to justify not following a request. It is what makes our relationship different than my vanilla marriage.

As an example: I know I shouldn't speed. It's dangerous, and expensive. If my ex said, you need to stop speeding, my response was, yeah, I do. When my Owner says, don't speed, as hard as it to not do so, I don't. However, I'm not in the car thinking, don't speed because he will be disappointed if you get a ticket. I'm picturing the last time I got a ticket when the bottoms of my feet were caned. (Answer to a lead foot [;)] ) It is his backing up of "requests" that forces me into submission. Another example would be that I can be really awful when I'm angry. It takes a lot to get me there, but when I get there, wow! I can slice and dice you verbally in two seconds flat and not give a shit that I did it. However, with him, that isn't the case. With him, since I know the consequences of said action, I still get angry, but I can present it respectfully, and clearly, and actually really, before I even get there (that whole demand of emotional transparency thing).

I would like to say his disappointment in me is more than enough to push me into obedience. I'm too selfish for that to be an accurate statement. He understands that my lack of following a command, when he isn't present, has nothing to do with not wanting to submit to him, or please him, or obey him, and everything to do with my inability to always muster up the will to do what he said vs what I want, at that given moment.

Now, having said, please note, really important note!! Because of his punishing in the past and making it clear that obedience was not a choice, but rather a demand, and putting a bit of fear into me, I rarely get in any trouble now. I am very dilliigent to be pleasing and obedient and I can go months without any issue arising. And, as I said, it had nothing to do with wanting to please him in the first place, I just couldn't always see the big picture enough to get myself to follow through when it seemed less than appealing. For me, having a man who understood that my desire to submit had little to do with my actions was a life saver. He took the time to get into my head, and spent the energy whipping me, even when it meant daily cos I just kept fuckin it up! Then I got with the picture (because let me be clear... I did not enjoy his punishments one iota...) and I am grateful he stuck with me and pushed me into where I wanted and needed to be!

Ah, and one more side note... I'm not really talking about willful disobedience, I didn't out right not do what he would say, it was more that I was a master at finding the wriggle room. The little tiny crack that I could spread open and justify to myself that whatever "it" was, was okay. Other men let me do this. Vanilla men certainly did, and before you knew it, I was running the show, and yet, miserable that I was running the show and "getting away" (for lack of a better term) with whatever I wanted. I was so good at justifying it, they even bought into it. My Owner, did not. He called me on every little thing and didn't buy any of my dazzling bullshit. (So dazzling that sometimes I was so blinded by its shine that I didn't even realize I was doing it until he stripped it down.)Thank God.

So, this is how it worked/works for me. My questions would be A) Who else had the same internal struggle and needed it "forced" out of them, if anyone, hey I could be a lone duck, I'm okay with that :) B) If you are someone who didn't need the consequences of failing to please... what makes it different for you than sublimely following a vanilla man that you thought equally highly of? (And please give me some insight, not just, I love him, and want to please him... I could say the same thing, now.. I'm looking to really get how it works/worked for you... what made you able to just shelve what you wanted and follow his rules?)
~s





ranja -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/8/2010 2:21:10 AM)

i certainly can identify with this
i did follow my *vanilla* man that i thought highly of for years and years trying to dom myself... until finally i was extremely resentful and bitter... and He totally sick of me always demanding more...

my problem is selfishness and laziness and nagging and i respond much better to being told off or pain to correct these attitudes when they annoy Him (and me) than to lengthy discussions about my behaviour, or even worse Him trying to ignore me...

my Husband suffers stubbornness i can not tell Him off or hit Him for this... if i did, i would be punished haha
so i have to respectfully and carefully manipulate to make Him see sense... different courses...



SpiritedRadiance -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/8/2010 4:18:17 AM)

I'm one of the obey with out punishment types.

In my house my father was always in charge, he had a very simple way of keeping order in the house, the rewards for doing as told and obeying were highy pleasing and always something each child wanted. For me it was the need for the library trip, or the new book, or the choice of dinner/resturant/tv show was alway enought to make me follow what ever was requested growing up.

When I was a teen of couse I tested my boundries, and my father sitting down and expressing how unhappy he was how displeased and how he had such high expectations he knew I could meet, and how not meeting them was only because I chose not to obey....how he just was so sad.....

I cried for almost a month after that conversation....14 years of nothing but apprasial and good girls and I'm so prouds do that to you....

Its not about kink for me, while its amazing and I adore spakings and bondage, for a compatible partner in the dynamic....I could give it up. As great aS it is a man who can inspire me to submit is worth more then those whips and chains.

As for for following his rules its rather easy for me, compatibility is a huge factor as well as his attitude, our wants and needs are similar enough that doing what he wants how he wants is in fact what I want and what I need... I wouldn't follow a man who's rules were against my nature, I wouldn't be able to submit, so a man who doesn't want a dynamic or who's poly for instance I couldn't follow.

My current partner hasn't filed out rules for the relationship yet, its still rather new, however we both have similar priorities when it comes to family and work and friends. He works to make us both happy, when he makes decisions its after he let's me know my opinion matters he explains when I don't understand, he shows me he has his position for a reason and he gives me a reason to follow, the benifits of following out weigh the task or changes necessary to follow. If I don't follow its because the reasons are no longer enough such as a incompatibility that wasn't forseen or he shows he no longer fit to lead me he's given me reason to believe I shouldn't follow him anylonger such as breaking my trust or no longer being a man of honesty



DesFIP -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/8/2010 4:33:43 AM)

I can't tell how old the op is. Usually however there comes a point where you grow up and don't want to have everything be done by force. And it's certainly true of dominants that usually it's only the young ones who go for the constant force play.

Punishment just makes me fear him. It doesn't make me love him and want to please him more. I may not repeat the bad behavior but I won't want to be near him, for fear of angering him again. It simply puts a wedge between us. Making me stop talking because not saying anything is easier than watching my words.

Of course the difference for the op is that she has someone who loves her anyway, so her relationship with her dominant is different than those of us who have only one partner. She can be very careful when talking to him because she has someone else to whom she can talk freely.

Her relationship is not comparable to those of us for whom our dominant is our only partner.

   



MaxsGirl -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/8/2010 5:10:08 AM)

I'm a little of both.  I've had two serious and long-term vanilla relationships, one with a man who honestly tried to dom me because he knew I needed it, and it didn't work out.  More recently I was in a longish relationship with a man who described himself as a dom, but who was unable to control me and who I felt no particular urge to submit to (depite really wanting to on some level).  I loved all three of these men and wanted to please them, but none of them was able to be dominant to me, or to inspire me to submit.  My owner, on the other hand, doesn't need to raise a hand to me to in most circumstances, I submit because he has a dominant energy about him that causes me to want to do so.  That is not at all the same as bowing to the wishes of a vanilla partner out of love.  I feel that I have to submit to him, but he rarely has to use force with me to bring it about.

That said, he can and does use force when it's warranted.  We're still a fairly new couple, having been together for less than a year, and so I'm still learning what all the rules and expectations are as we go along.  I've been beaten for snooping, I've been beaten for being lazy, and I've been threatened with a beating for things which I haven't even done (yet). [sm=angel.gif]  Alpha knows that I want to submit to him completely, but the reality of submission is not always black and white.  I'm a strong-willed woman and have been on my own for a long time, so sometimes I let my will override his, if only from force of habit.  That is when physical punishment comes in.  Thankfully Alpha, though he is a sadist in the bedroom, takes no real pleasure from punishing me but hands out those particular beating with a sort of grim determination.  It's that combination of pain and his disappointment that is most effective against my bad behavior.



quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Punishment just makes me fear him. It doesn't make me love him and want to please him more. I may not repeat the bad behavior but I won't want to be near him, for fear of angering him again. It simply puts a wedge between us. Making me stop talking because not saying anything is easier than watching my words.



But for some of us fear and love go hand in hand.  I have a hard time respecting a man that I don't fear just a little bit, and without respect there can be no love.  That might not be the dynamic that works for everyone, but it works very well for us, and probably for others here.  Fearing him a bit also makes me more likely to be completely honest with him - I know that telling him outright about something I've done wrong will bring a punishment, but it's better than what will happen if I try to hide something and fail.



angelikaJ -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/8/2010 5:10:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I can't tell how old the op is. Usually however there comes a point where you grow up and don't want to have everything be done by force. And it's certainly true of dominants that usually it's only the young ones who go for the constant force play.

Punishment just makes me fear him. It doesn't make me love him and want to please him more. I may not repeat the bad behavior but I won't want to be near him, for fear of angering him again. It simply puts a wedge between us. Making me stop talking because not saying anything is easier than watching my words.

Of course the difference for the op is that she has someone who loves her anyway, so her relationship with her dominant is different than those of us who have only one partner. She can be very careful when talking to him because she has someone else to whom she can talk freely.

Her relationship is not comparable to those of us for whom our dominant is our only partner.

   



Ummm Des, where do you extrapolate that she has more than one partner from this?

She talked about having been in a vanilla marriage and having an ex.

I appreciate the OP's post and it's honesty.

No, I don't do things (or not do things) out of fear of my Master... fear of disappointment? Yes.
However, Monday, my room was much less than tidy and before he left he did remind me verbally what the consequences would be if it isn't remedied for his next visit.
The physical consequences of a correction and his leaving is reminder of his disappointment.
His disappointment in me is usually, but not always enough.

Because I am not naturally neat, I am learning that it is easier to take care of small messes before they become bigger messes and then overwhelm me.
The issue for him is allergies.

Now one solution, of course, would be for him to declare it a compatibility issue and find someone else.

However, I am becoming better about keeping things clean, because I am learning that it is better for me to live in a more peaceful environment and he sees more to me than that negative.





MollyTroubletail -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/8/2010 5:27:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedbyPF

B) If you are someone who didn't need the consequences of failing to please... what makes it different for you than sublimely following a vanilla man that you thought equally highly of? (And please give me some insight, not just, I love him, and want to please him... I could say the same thing, now.. I'm looking to really get how it works/worked for you... what made you able to just shelve what you wanted and follow his rules?)





Wanting to please is like a sickness in me. Needing to please is the paramount thing in my life. I am possessed and controlled by that need sometimes even to my own detriment.

Why can't I submit to a vanilla man? I don't equate punishment with force. I need to feel the forcefulness in my life, I need him to lead and encompass me. I don't feel able to disobey a man I consider to be "Great".



mbes -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/8/2010 5:41:03 AM)

For the short answer, OP, I'll go with a. So no, you aren't a lone duck.
I wish I had more time right now, because this really resonates with me. I can't wait to read more responses later.
Oh, and in case there is a poll while I'm away, I have only one partner.



yellowroses -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/8/2010 7:23:38 AM)

How it works for me is that I love to please him. I love when he is happy with me and what I have done. I have never been punished by him and that is what works for us.

quote:

I would like to say his disappointment in me is more than enough to push me into obedience.


His disappointment when I have done something wrong and mine in myself is enough for me to be obedient.

My husband and I have had conversations about this a few times. I have always asked him..."have I ever done anything that is punishment worthy?" His answer is always no. We have been together almost 10 years and in that time I suppose I have forgotten things from time to time. When I do remember I correct the situation and all is well.

I have always had a deep desire to please. In my first marriage (which was vanilla) I used to do all kinds of things to please him. In the morning I would put his work clothes out and put them in he dryer first if it was a particularly cold morning as well as a towel for him to dry off with after his shower. I would get hs razor and shaving cream out and even put toothpaste on his toothbrush. Also make his breakfast and lunch. He didn't ever ask me to do any of these things. I actually created ways to please him. This continued in my second marriage. I came up with things that I thought he would like and now it is like a riutal.

quote:

A) Who else had the same internal struggle and needed it "forced" out of them, if anyone, hey I could be a lone duck, I'm okay with that :)


No I don't have that internal struggle and it doesn't need to be forced out of me.

quote:

I know I shouldn't speed. It's dangerous, and expensive. If my ex said, you need to stop speeding, my response was, yeah, I do. When my Owner says, don't speed, as hard as it to not do so, I don't. However, I'm not in the car thinking, don't speed because he will be disappointed if you get a ticket. I'm picturing the last time I got a ticket when the bottoms of my feet were caned.


I don't need my feet caned to remind me not to speed. I haven't received a speeding ticket since I was in my early 20's. I don't need my hand cut off to remind me not to steal either. I have never stolen anything.

quote:

Another example would be that I can be really awful when I'm angry. It takes a lot to get me there, but when I get there, wow! I can slice and dice you verbally in two seconds flat and not give a shit that I did it.


I don't need (insert punishment here) to remind me not to speak rudely or treat someone unkindly especially him if they do something to make me angry or even if my blood sugar is low or I am tired or I am just not in a good mood.

quote:

B) If you are someone who didn't need the consequences of failing to please... what makes it different for you than sublimely following a vanilla man that you thought equally highly of? (And please give me some insight, not just, I love him, and want to please him... I could say the same thing, now.. I'm looking to really get how it works/worked for you... what made you able to just shelve what you wanted and follow his rules?)


I don't know what makes it different for me. I am just wired to please and submit. This is exactly this answer you didn't want but I want to please him. I don't consider it shelving what I wanted. It IS what I wanted. I want to please him.

I must add that there are times when my husband recognizes my need for a little physical pain or discomfort to aid in my submission. He (being slightly sadistic) gives that to me in anyway that he sees fit. I am continual in awe of how he knows when these times are.

yellowroses



barelynangel -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/8/2010 9:23:18 AM)

To me being a slave doesn't have anything to do with how much need a person has to please or obey. I also never saw slave as an ultra submissive or someone more likely to submit. I think pleasing and obeying is a result for many women held in slavery by men whose will is strong than hers. But I also believe it's a result ofvsubmissive women to a dominant man. My slavery was a discipline based not punishment based. It may be semantics but mentally for me it wasn't. His will, mastery, and determinations kept me striving to meet and maintain his expectations and standards. His discipline was a tool used when he thought it would benefit me to maintain striving for what he determined for me. I am not a pleaser just to please. I tend to like to do what I want to do. So I was many times a disobedient slave. When I was because of his will snd mastery I was disciplined in whatever way he determined if he determined that would benefit me in striving to meet his expectations and standards he set for me. This all happened because his mastery and will was there to carry out his determinations of how I would exist in his life. He didn't need my obedience or to be pleased with me. I was his slave. Which meant I would exist in his life as he determined and he created the atmosphere and environment for me to do so. That included his discipline his determinations etc. The pleasing and obedience were simple a result of how he kept me. Not why I existed as I did.

If that made sense

Angel



agirl -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/8/2010 3:02:27 PM)

quote:

I'm looking to really get how it works/worked for you... what made you able to just shelve what you wanted and follow his rules?)
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedbyPF

Being obedient is never going to be easy for me, even after years and years with M. I'm not submissive and the main drive in my life is to do what *I* want to do. I don't have a *pleasing* nature, or a *serving* one and I don't have the * he might be disappointed in me* thing, either, as I can't recall a time when he ever HAS been.

Not following an instruction doesn't disappoint him; he has an attitude of * Ok, won't do it THAT way, then maybe THIS option will suit!! The second option is vastly more awful (swift and painful) than if I'd just *done it*. HENCE.....I tend to swallow my hedonistic tendencies and get on with it.

In reference to Des's post........It has nothing to do with being *grown-up*. Not all of us have the same motivations for following orders or intructions. I don't fear him if I land myself with a penalty.....and I can probably count on one hand the amount of times he's ever been angry with me throughout a decade. He is perfectly happy with me even as he administers it. There's no upset at all, it's just something that has to be done.

He KNEW the person I was before he owned me; no need to be disappointed, no need to get angry with me.......all he had to do was find the solution, and he's imaginative enough to do that without anger or disappointment.

The last thing I ever want to have around me is someone for whom I have to worry or care about disappointing or angering. Loving him wouldn't make me any MORE likely to want to *please* him, either. It's not about loving, or being pleasing, it's about being in a relationship that suits WHO you are, with someone that has no problem or angst with that......and who can do the job they signed up for ie, mastering ME.

agirl




CaringandReal -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/8/2010 3:11:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedbyPF
So, this is how it worked/works for me. My questions would be A) Who else had the same internal struggle and needed it "forced" out of them, if anyone, hey I could be a lone duck, I'm okay with that :) B) If you are someone who didn't need the consequences of failing to please... what makes it different for you than sublimely following a vanilla man that you thought equally highly of?


A. I think I would have performed much better (smoother, easier) under the forced style you describe and also been saved a lot of angst, but that was not in the cards. My former master had a different style: it was slow, gentle, and utterly inexorable. It got the same results in the end, force is force after all, whether it appears gentle or harsh. He decided, for his own reasons, that he needed to be gentle with me, and no matter how many times I begged him to be more harsh, that extremely stubborn individual never swerved from his decided course. In the end, the point was moot, he got the high level of service he wanted from me, which was basically to always obey him, immediately and completely.

B. How did he differ from a vanilla man? How does the ocean differ from the rocks it turns so easily (and gently) upon the shore? How is an immovable mountain in your way different from a slender pine that can be easily cut down? He understood control and its successful application thoroughly, he manipulated me--sometimes directly, sometimes not--to get exactly the result he wanted, and his will never, ever bent or flagged. Sometimes he would feel compassion for me and allow me a little leeway for a short while. And then it was business as usual which meant, essentially, me doing his will. I was a wiggler too (in fact, while this is not a popular opinion, I believe most submissives are. It's how we discover the bounds of our cages). He allowed me some space to wiggle about on the hook, a little time to acclimatize, then he clamped down, hard.

Why did I obey him without constant physical punishment? He was a great, great man. This is going to sound old-fashioned maybe even a little corny, but who cares, it's the truth: I was inspired to provide him with a level of service befitting to a person of his station. I wanted this amazing, brilliant man to be pleased with me, proud of his possession, not regretful of choosing to own me. I could not bear to look at myself in the mirror if I did not do this. And we'd talk it through too. Coming to understand the real reasons why I did something was, along with my worship and wanting to be worthy of his regard, enough to effect change in most cases. He told me stories of previous slaves/submissives he had. Many of them got the harsh punishment I so craved--because he determined they needed it. He wasn't particularly thrilled with them as slaves, though.

So yeah, it was hard on me in a sense: I adore, eroticize, and am deeply moved by a punishment dynamic. But serving him in the way _he_ wished to be served was a far higher priority than my own personal preferences. That's the way it always is with dominants, or rather masters. It's a very special situation, I think, if you encounter one who is on the same page as you in dynamic styles. While same-pagedness is something I hope for, it is not something I bank on or expect. What I need and look for is that singular, hard, unflinching diamond core inside a person. I don't particularly care how it expresses itself--or even if that expression runs contrary to what I expect or desire. That inner will is what I respond to, not the form it takes. Having found such a thing once in my former master, I cannot settle now for anything less, although it's possible that, in a moment of weakness or need I might be tricked or trick myself into accepting something less. That thought scares me. Looking for that hard diamond core means I spend a long time waiting. My former master is a very hard act to follow. :(



littlewonder -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/8/2010 3:24:49 PM)

I don't obey him because I need to be forced to do so. Neither he nor I would ever even think of entering into such a relationship. For us it completely voids the whole idea of submission.

I obey him because I respect and love him and in return it is pleasing to him.

Bdsm has zero reason why I do so. I obeyed my husband and we had never heard of bdsm. I obeyed him because well..he was my husband and I'm traditional in my beliefs.




kyraofMists -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/8/2010 3:53:23 PM)


I am in an obey or leave relationship, but it would be highly inaccurate to think that I am going to be kicked out for making a mistake, being forgetful or not fully understanding the instruction I have been given. The obey or leave applies only to willful disobedience; an act where I know is required, I have the skill and time to complete what is required and I make a conscious choice to not do his will. That is what will end our relationship. Since the OP is not really discussing those type of situations, then the fact that I am in an obey or leave type relationship is irrelevant to my response...

I am a naturally obedient person with someone that I recognize as an authority figure. Pleasing him is a secondary and maybe even tertiary motivation; an instruction get given and I immediately seek to follow it. It really is an instinctive part of who I am. I have told this story several times, but it really does show how ingrained obedience is for me. Prior to this camping trip, I had only met his brother a few times; enough to know that they are a lot alike in many ways. We were sitting around the campfire and he tells me to go get him a drink. I start to stand up and his brother says with a commanding tone "Kyra, sit down!" and I sit. Then the realization hits and I get this baffled look on my face and have to make myself get up and get him a drink. I am pretty sure he could see the panic on my face and he said nothing, just watched me work out the nuances and force myself to disobey his brother. It was actually really difficult to force myself to get out of the chair. I am sure he got a little sadistic thrill in fucking with me that day.

It isn't about love, wanting to be pleasing, but it is just something about the other person that I instinctually recognize as an authority figure. It happens with his youngest daughter too. She has that same air of authority and confidence that he has and I have to consciously remind myself that I am the authority figure in our relationship. With someone who isn't dominant, I will not have that response to them. I have had non M/s relationships and they were not interested in me doing their will; he is and in fact it is a requirement in order to be in the relationship with him.

That is the big kicker for me... it has to be about doing his will and not mine. That is where I get my warm fuzzies. It isn't in being pleasing or making him happy; it is in knowing that I am doing his will. For me, doing things to please him originates with my will to be pleaing. What gives me peace is doing his will and let him worry about whether he is pleased or not.

Knight's Kyra



leadership527 -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/8/2010 4:47:34 PM)

quote:

Original: OwnedbyPF:
Because of his punishing in the past and making it clear that obedience was not a choice, but rather a demand, and putting a bit of fear into me, I rarely get in any trouble now.

Oddly, I find us nothing like you and yet that statement above is exactly us. The only difference is that going into this Carol already knew that I never bluff... ever. She'd seen 12 years of me being me by the time the collar came into play. Therefor, it wasn't difficult for me to set the expectation of obedience without the need for the exclamation point of a "punishment". It probably also helps a lot that the natural spread between my dominance and her submission is so large that the sort of "wiggle room" that you were talking about would just be unthinkable to her... literally unthinkable.

Finally, I think actual results are the most effective thing of all. I mean seriously, it's hard to argue with observed reality. The bottom line truth is that my leadership of our marriage has always been demonstrably good for Carol. Thwarting "my will" would be just plain stupid of her given that. Not that people don't do stupid things from time to time (myself included). But honestly, for the most part Carol is a fairly strong and wise person. So she doesn't engage in things which are counter-productive to her own goals very often.



agirl -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/9/2010 4:57:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

Original: OwnedbyPF:
Because of his punishing in the past and making it clear that obedience was not a choice, but rather a demand, and putting a bit of fear into me, I rarely get in any trouble now.


Oddly, I find us nothing like you and yet that statement above is exactly us. The only difference is that going into this Carol already knew that I never bluff... ever. She'd seen 12 years of me being me by the time the collar came into play. Therefor, it wasn't difficult for me to set the expectation of obedience without the need for the exclamation point of a "punishment". It probably also helps a lot that the natural spread between my dominance and her submission is so large that the sort of "wiggle room" that you were talking about would just be unthinkable to her... literally unthinkable.

Finally, I think actual results are the most effective thing of all. I mean seriously, it's hard to argue with observed reality. The bottom line truth is that my leadership of our marriage has always been demonstrably good for Carol. Thwarting "my will" would be just plain stupid of her given that. Not that people don't do stupid things from time to time (myself included). But honestly, for the most part Carol is a fairly strong and wise person. So she doesn't engage in things which are counter-productive to her own goals very often.


I agree that the *actual results* are the most effective. It's not as if anyone is with some kind of *generic submissive*.

M has always, and I MEAN always,  has done exactly as he's said. He, like you, does not bluff and has led me, quite willingly, down all the varied paths we've taken. It might not LOOK as if I'm willing, in each and every individual moment, but the overall state of our life together is far greater than *moment by moment*. I always come out smiling and I always expect to come out smiling, even if I'm not grinning from ear to ear at the *time*.

agirl












NuevaVida -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/9/2010 8:09:47 AM)

My motivations have changed over the years.  I've always yielded to authority without much issue; it's just inherent to who I am.  Part of my need to be pleasing used to come from an upbringing where love was conditional - Do this and you get a loving response.  Do that and you're ignored and disliked for a period of time, and so on.  My marriage wasn't much different.  So when I went into my last M/s relationship, his love...respect...goodness...was something I strived for, by being good and pleasing and obedient.  He capitalized on this, so when I made a mistake or did something wrong, he'd withhold, or beat me down.  In retrospect, it wasn't very healthy for me, as I seemed to be playing a tug of war game with love.  And because my self value came from him, when he wasn't happy with me, I'd take quite a spiral into depression.

Things in my life are much different now.  After that relationship ended, I learned to value myself, and to find that value coming from within, not an external source.  In fact, I thought very highly of myself when I met my owner, who is also my Daddy.  My attitude was more of a "take it or leave it" with me.  But as the relationship has grown, I find I am loved by him - not because of what I do, but because of who I am.  This gives me the freedom to just be me, and to freely express all facets of me.  And I find that I please him and obey because I really really want to - not because I'll be rewarded with love (I already have that from him) but because I want to give him all the goodness he gives me.  I want him to be happy in this relationship, and to add joy to his life.

So when I disappoint him, I don't fear his love or want for me going away, but I just feel really bad that he has to deal with something that isn't making him happy.  It is in my nature to submit to my man, and I do that without even thinking about it, but submitting to him and obeying him - well it just gives me warm fuzzies to see him enjoying life.  So that's what motivates me, rather than punishment or fear or force.  He leads in a way that is easy for me to follow, and it comes naturally and without stress, because of it. Punishment is rare and when it comes it's mild - basically to just emphasize a point after thoroughly talking things through.

As for "obey or leave" - that was pretty well my situation before, only it wasn't emphasized quite so black and white.  I think it was a threat that would not have been played out.  In my relationship now, I find myself experiencing something I never understood or even agreed with before - it's more of the "you can never leave" scenario.  I find myself really comforted by this, actually.  He claims he won't let me fail, and I believe him.  So to try to bolt because my internal demons pay a visit isn't an option for me.  He wants me in his life, and he's going to make sure this relationship remains healthy enough for both of us where leaving never becomes something we consider.  If there's a problem, he fixes it.  So if I'm disobeying (which hasn't come up), then that's an indication of a bigger problem that he needs to fix. Because of this, I can fully let my guard down, and just be me.



daddysprop247 -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/9/2010 10:24:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists


I am a naturally obedient person with someone that I recognize as an authority figure. Pleasing him is a secondary and maybe even tertiary motivation; an instruction get given and I immediately seek to follow it. It really is an instinctive part of who I am. I have told this story several times, but it really does show how ingrained obedience is for me. Prior to this camping trip, I had only met his brother a few times; enough to know that they are a lot alike in many ways. We were sitting around the campfire and he tells me to go get him a drink. I start to stand up and his brother says with a commanding tone "Kyra, sit down!" and I sit. Then the realization hits and I get this baffled look on my face and have to make myself get up and get him a drink. I am pretty sure he could see the panic on my face and he said nothing, just watched me work out the nuances and force myself to disobey his brother. It was actually really difficult to force myself to get out of the chair. I am sure he got a little sadistic thrill in fucking with me that day.




omg kyra, this sounds almost exactly like me...obedience is very reflexive for me, things like pleasing someone else (tho most times that's what i wish) are actually secondary to that. the only difference is that the person doesn't need to be especially dominant, they just need to be more authoritative than i am (which is uh, practically everyone, lol). so i too have had the experience of being in the process of obeying a command of my Master, and then going against that to obey the command of someone else, and then just being all confused and discombobulated, lol. and because he learned early on how to control it when necessary, it tickles him to death. [:D] i don't even need a direct command...for instance, when we're visiting the home of someone else, whether it is my Master's family or his friends or our neighbors or what, for some sort of gathering, inevitably the host will call out for help: "will someone please take out the recycling/bring in the chairs/chop the onions/wash the dishes"...and though surely they aren't thinking of me, i immediately move to do it. it's not even something i think about unless someone else points it out. "like um, this isn't your party, why are you washing the dishes?"...and i never have a good answer for that, just "they wanted someone to." lol



leadership527 -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/9/2010 11:00:55 AM)

LOL - Carol too. You'd go farther with that than she would by far... but something like cleaning the dishes would be automatic and reflexive. It's actually hard for me to imagine her staying seated in that situation unless I gave her a direct command. Even if I did give the command, she'd remain highly uncomfortable unless I also commanded that to stop. Even then it'd be touch & go inside of her.

Actually, in point of fact, Carol'd probably already be doing the dishes a few minutes before anyone called out to ask for it done. She'd see the need and automatically think of it as appropriate that she serve. Honestly though, it's hard to argue with that viewpoint. If we're accepting the courtesy of someone else's home, chipping in to help out with the party isn't exactly unreasonable. As I think on it, if her services were not sufficient to the task, I'd be up and helping too. The big difference is that for her that would all be automatic. For me, I'd have to actually notice the problem and then muster myself to do something about it.

Hey wait! is doing the dishes a submissive act? I may need to rethink in willingness on that point - LOL.



daddysprop247 -> RE: Pleasing, obedience, and how ya got there (12/9/2010 11:13:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527


Hey wait! is doing the dishes a submissive act? I may need to rethink in willingness on that point - LOL.


nah, i don't think it's the dishwashing itself which is submissive, but more the inclination to wash any and everybody's dishes which could be, lol.

it's funny though, whenever we attend a private get-together of some sort i find myself stepping automatically into the role of background host...straightening up, serving, doing all the grunt work everyone hates, etc. often to the point where i cease to even be a part of the festivities themselves...then i'll get all frustrated with myself for missing out on the fun yet again. [:@]



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