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Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 4:38:26 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Job-based health care benefits could wind up on the chopping block if President Barack Obama and congressional Republicans get serious about cutting the deficit.

Budget proposals from leaders in both parties have urged shrinking or eliminating tax breaks that help make employer health insurance the leading source of coverage in the nation and a middle-class mainstay.
The idea isn't to just raise revenue, economists say, but finally to turn Americans into frugal health care consumers by having them face the full costs of their medical decisions.
Source:        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101128/ap_on_bi_ge/us_employer_health_plans
My 2 cents:  Now the republicans are moving toward socialized medicine   ugh  
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 6:54:59 AM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

Such a re-engineering was rejected by Democrats only a few months ago, at the height of the health care overhaul debate. But Washington has changed, with Republicans back in power and widespread fears that the burden of government debt may drag down the economy.


Hmmm.... the additional Republicans do not even take office until January.  I find it suspicious that the administration is bringing this up right now.

Do you think they might be trying to... I don't know... demonize and blame the new Republican legislators before they've even assumed power?

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 7:03:40 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

"What we are saying is that we are going to examine every tax earmark," Becerra said. "They are all on the table. If you want to keep one, then show us how you are going to come up with the money. That's where you really have to put your money where your mouth is."


Hmmm.. sounds like a plan to me.

Calla


_____________________________

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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 7:08:17 AM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		Calla   Although I agree with much of it, like total tax reform and getting rid of deductions, socialized medicine isn't the way to go in my opinion.   And I don't believe that employers are going to give the employees a raise to cover their medical costs.   is a tradeoff.   who knows for sure.  



(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 7:08:40 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Organized labor might have a different idea when it comes to health care benefits bargained for these employees.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 7:09:56 AM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

Such a re-engineering was rejected by Democrats only a few months ago, at the height of the health care overhaul debate. But Washington has changed, with Republicans back in power and widespread fears that the burden of government debt may drag down the economy.


Hmmm.... the additional Republicans do not even take office until January.  I find it suspicious that the administration is bringing this up right now.

Do you think they might be trying to... I don't know... demonize and blame the new Republican legislators before they've even assumed power?



Well since Pelosi said that she is basically going to make sure that it doesn't get out of congress cause Obama agrees.   Not so sure who is going to be demonized.   But I am pretty sure someone will

(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 7:10:17 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

My 2 cents: Now the republicans are moving toward socialized medicine ugh


Something I am having a little trouble understanding about your post: You seem to be against socialized medicine but you have bragged here on this forum that you enjoy exellent health care via socialized medicine and that you knew, as a young man, before you went into the service that you had a medical condition that would require expensive long term care.
So it would appear that you like socialized medicine for yourself but not for the rest of the people in our country.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 7:13:04 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

And I don't believe that employers are going to give the employees a raise to cover their medical costs


I also don't believe that employers will give one red cent more to their employees if they're no longer paying for medical insurance. I believe that, over the next few years, we'll see more and more companies, including some of the big ones that have covered their employees' health care for DECADES choosing to abandon health-care insurance packages for their employees.

HOWEVER, I also think that it is important to really LOOK at some of the ways that we are managing our country's finances. What we're doing now is wasteful and is not working.

I have to say, I read the entire article, and to me, this didn't sound like a move towards "socialized medicine". There was NOTHING in the article about single-payer insurance or anything of the sort... simply a discussion about removing certain tax breaks, which would likely impact business incentives to continue to fund employee health insurance.

Calla


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 7:14:32 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Well yes and no.   I enjoyed a wonderful life in a socialist society (the US Army)  which limits one freedoms.   Since military healthcare is basically socialized medicine because it was set up and run by the govt, then yes, I have socialized medicine.   However, when I was working for a civilian company and had more than one insurance (had 3 for a while) I believe that their requirements were much less and better.  Fewer preauthorizations, etc.

(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 7:17:22 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

And I don't believe that employers are going to give the employees a raise to cover their medical costs


I also don't believe that employers will give one red cent more to their employees if they're no longer paying for medical insurance. I believe that, over the next few years, we'll see more and more companies, including some of the big ones that have covered their employees' health care for DECADES choosing to abandon health-care insurance packages for their employees.

HOWEVER, I also think that it is important to really LOOK at some of the ways that we are managing our country's finances. What we're doing now is wasteful and is not working.

I have to say, I read the entire article, and to me, this didn't sound like a move towards "socialized medicine". There was NOTHING in the article about single-payer insurance or anything of the sort... simply a discussion about removing certain tax breaks, which would likely impact business incentives to continue to fund employee health insurance.

Calla



I see it as a move toward socialed medican by extension.   Remove the tax break, then cut medical benefits at company level, then not give the employees a raise to cover their medical expenses, then lack of ability to pay for medical care, then socialized medicine (an oversimplification)

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 7:25:20 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

Such a re-engineering was rejected by Democrats only a few months ago, at the height of the health care overhaul debate. But Washington has changed, with Republicans back in power and widespread fears that the burden of government debt may drag down the economy.


Your yahoo quote seems to indicate that the republicrats now hold a majority in both houses of congress and the majority of the govornorships.....
Those who can read know this to be untrue.

Hmmm.... the additional Republicans do not even take office until January.  I find it suspicious that the administration is bringing this up right now.

What exactly do you find suspicious?

Do you think they might be trying to... I don't know... demonize and blame the new Republican legislators before they've even assumed power?


Just how would this do that?



(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 7:28:14 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Well yes and no.   I enjoyed a wonderful life in a socialist society (the US Army)  which limits one freedoms.   Since military healthcare is basically socialized medicine because it was set up and run by the govt, then yes, I have socialized medicine.   However, when I was working for a civilian company and had more than one insurance (had 3 for a while) I believe that their requirements were much less and better.  Fewer preauthorizations, etc.



Bullshit

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 7:38:44 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Such a re-engineering was rejected by Democrats only a few months ago, at the height of the health care overhaul debate. But Washington has changed, with Republicans back in power and widespread fears that the burden of government debt may drag down the economy.


Your yahoo quote seems to indicate that the republicrats now hold a majority in both houses of congress and the majority of the govornorships.....
Those who can read know this to be untrue.


Sorry.  Can't be responsible for how the AP author decides to word his articles.  That's also part of the point... the Republicans aren't taking over all the power, yet this article seems to hint that because they have, they should be the ones to be blamed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Hmmm.... the additional Republicans do not even take office until January.  I find it suspicious that the administration is bringing this up right now.


What exactly do you find suspicious?


I would think that would be rather obvious. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Do you think they might be trying to... I don't know... demonize and blame the new Republican legislators before they've even assumed power?


Just how would this do that?


Ummm... by the behavior as reported in this article.  That's kinda why I brought it up.  It wasn't a trick question.

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 11/28/2010 7:41:08 AM >

(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 7:50:35 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

Sorry. Can't be responsible for how the AP author decides to word his articles. That's also part of the point... the Republicans aren't taking over all the power, yet this article seems to hint that because they have, they should be the ones to be blamed.


You posted the quote to show that the republicrats "were back in power" which they clearly are not but then you knew that.
You chose that particular piece of bullshit to quote and now you do not want to take the responsibility for the bullshit you quote..
It would seem to me that a little personal responsibility for your own actions is in order

(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 7:52:29 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

What exactly do you find suspicious?


quote:

I would think that would be rather obvious.


If it were obvious I would not have asked for clarification of your paranoia.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 7:55:38 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Do you think they might be trying to... I don't know... demonize and blame the new Republican legislators before they've even assumed power?


Just how would this do that?

quote:

Ummm... by the behavior as reported in this article. That's kinda why I brought it up. It wasn't a trick question.


If it is not a trick question then why don't you answer it?

(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 8:16:43 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline



Firm is right... block really is a neat feature. 

(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 8:35:21 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Employer-based health care was an interesting and excellent idea at a time when health insurance was a rarity. It gave employers a hiring edge, and it gave unions assurance against job cuts during recessions (as it change some marginal costs to fixed costs). It was a creative and beneficial sales approach for the insurance industry.

It never was intended to be a universal system, and never made sense as a universal system. Everyone realizes this--on the left, people (frankly, wisely) point out that only a public option or, truly, a single payer plan is long term viable (if the goal is universal coverage); on the right, forcing a clunky private system to embrace universal coverage is fraught with unacceptable problems (despite that they proposed this in the 90s, but their intent was to kill universal coverage, not to actually do it, and why they didn't pursue it when they had the power to do so).

For a number of factors, health care costs in the U.S. have been spiraling up far faster than inflation, and the old status quo is unsustainable long term. Businesses simply will not be able to do it; many have already had to drop it or lay the cost on employees. Now, expanding the pool will help (long term), but it's not a permanent solution. In the end, sooner or later, single payer health insurance, by whatever means, will be necessary.

And yes, consumers have to realize what health care actually costs. We also have to wake up to the reality that it doesn't have to cost this much (it doesn't in other countries). We will have to start making different choices, from lifestyle to savings to our views of heroic medicine and endless testing in a litigious culture. And we'll have a hell of a time getting there as competing economic and political interests try to turn the situation to their short term advantage with rhetorical spin.

But behind the talk, the reality is pretty clear. How do get there is the difficulty.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Republicans Move toward Socialized Medicine - 11/28/2010 8:54:26 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY





Firm is right... block really is a neat feature. 




To paraphrase harry callahan..."A girl has got to know her limitations" You and your alter ego seem to have found yours...please do try to enjoy your self imposed ignorance.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 19
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