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IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing The ... - 11/20/2010 8:37:36 AM   
FirmhandKY


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Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental protection, says the German economist and IPCC official Ottmar Edenhofer. The next world climate summit in Cancun is actually an economy summit during which the distribution of the world's resources will be negotiated.

«Klimapolitik verteilt das Weltvermögen neu»
14. November 2010, NZZ am Sonntag

Question:

De facto ist das eine Enteignung der Länder mit den Bodenschätzen. Das führt zu einer ganz anderen Entwicklung als der, die bisher mit Entwicklungspolitik angestossen wurde.

Response:

Aber man muss klar sagen: Wir verteilen durch die Klimapolitik de facto das Weltvermögen. ... Man muss sich von der Illusion freimachen, dass internationale Klimapolitik Umweltpolitik ist. Das hat mit Umweltpolitik, mit Problemen wie Waldsterben oder Ozonloch, fast nichts mehr zu tun.

Translation in English:
IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing The World's Wealth”
Thursday, 18 November 2010 13:16


Question:
De facto, this means an expropriation of the countries with natural resources. This leads to a very different development from that which has been triggered by development policy.

Response:
But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy. ... One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.

Who is Ottmar Edenhofer?

Ottmar Georg Edenhofer (8 July 1961 in Gangkofen, Lower Bavaria, Germany) is a German economist who deals with climate change policy and environmental and energy policy and energy economics. He is currently professor of the Economics of Climate Change at the Technical University of Berlin, co-chair of Working group III of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and deputy director and chief economist at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research as well as Fellow of the Academy of Sciences in Hamburg, Germany.

In 2004, Ottmar Edenhofer was a lead author for the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which shared the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize with former Vice President of the United States Al Gore.

Since August 2008 Ottmar Edenhofer is professor for the Economics of Climate Change at the Technical University Berlin. Since September 2008, he is co-chair of Working group III ("Mitigation of Climate Change") of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

In addition to his research and teaching activities, Ottmar Edenhofer is participating in the public and political climate protection debates in Germany and the European Union. His research has influenced the Stern Review on the Economics of Climate Change substantially in particular chapters 10 and 13.

I've recently heard the term "watermelons" to describe such people: Green on the outside, Red on the inside.

Seems accurate to me.

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 11/20/2010 8:46:23 AM >

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 8:55:56 AM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		Yeah- I had seen that.

It is true.

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 9:13:54 AM   
samboct


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Remember the expression- politics makes strange bedfellows? Scientists are overwhelmingly liberal (some 85% IIRC)- so why are you surprised that some of their comments are taken to heart by those of a socialist persuasion?
Berlin has always been Red Berlin.- even during the Nazis.

Besides- have you seen any practical proposal involving technology that comes from an economist? Economists tell you why not do things because it makes their calculations harder- and they're just not very good at figuring out tough problems. When an economist comes up with an accurate cost structure of clean air, water, and agriculturally productive land, as well as aesthetics- let me know. Until then, I think they often miss the forest for the trees. I suspect- and I'm guessing here, is that imbecile economist figured out that poor folks are going to have to use burning wood, oil and coal, replicating the path of the developed world. This is nonsense- old solar cells aren't winding up in landfills, they're getting sold to Mexico and S. America at low prices. Like telephone technology, the developing world will leapfrog old fashioned energy technology, i.e. the internal combustion engine. They're not building only infernal combustion scooters in China-the electric ones are being built in the millions- as well as fuel cell powered ones. If we develop fossil fuel replacement technology- that's what the developing world is going to use. We're not going to be shipping them coal plants- or at least we shouldn't.

I'm sorry, but this post is just fear mongering. I mean really, an economist says that climate change involves economic policy of how we're going to redistribute the world's resources? Well, d'uh....Moving away from fossil fuels means that regions rich in solar (which translates to wind, PV, solar thermal) and geothermal (heat from radioactive decay in earth's crust) will be in better economic shape. But the reality is also going to be that there's plenty of energy hitting the planet- and it's no longer going to be a resource which is so geographically concentrated.

In terms of climate effects- that's another d'uh. Most poor folks live in lands that can flood near coasts are rivers- richer people live higher up. If the sea levels rise, the poor folks are going to have to move to higher ground- and there's going to be some displacement. So what else is new?

Sam

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 9:23:46 AM   
rulemylife


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Status: offline 		I have no idea what any of this means, but as long as we are having a thread on learning new languages I thought I would contribute.

German phrases

Einfache Sätze
Notfälle
Allgemeine Konversation
Leute kennenlernen
Familie und Beziehungen






< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/20/2010 9:25:22 AM >

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 9:24:17 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Scientists are overwhelmingly liberal


Now there's an interesting claim. What's your support for it?

Also--if it can be supported--why do you think that's so?

To the OP -- ALL policy is about redistributing wealth (yup, right left and center). How and why are the issues.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/20/2010 9:25:35 AM >

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 11:15:08 AM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		Firm, like I've always said about this scam, "FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!"

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 12:54:09 PM   
liks2plzlf


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Status: offline 		So I wonder how this will affect America! And countries like china?

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 1:13:50 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

I'm sorry, but this post is just fear mongering. I mean really, an economist says that climate change involves economic policy of how we're going to redistribute the world's resources? Well, d'uh....


Sam, come on ...

He is acknowledging the plain fact that the policies that they are seeking have no, nada, nothing to do with the stated reasons, i.e. environmental protection.

Again:

free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore
Firm


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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 1:16:23 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I have no idea what any of this means, but as long as we are having a thread on learning new languages I thought I would contribute.

German phrases

Einfache Sätze
Notfälle
Allgemeine Konversation
Leute kennenlernen
Familie und Beziehungen

You really can act like an asshat, rml.

I gave the original German, because I suspected some people would claim "mistranslation".  The same reason that we give links, so anyone can check it out themselves.

And, if you weren't technologically challenged, you might try Google Translate or one of the other services.

Me?  I speak and read pretty good German.  I don't need your "language lesson".

Firm


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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 1:19:19 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

To the OP -- ALL policy is about redistributing wealth (yup, right left and center). How and why are the issues.

I agree that all politics is about "who gets what".

However, it's hypocritical for many to claim that they are "worried about global warming, and therefore we need to support this policy", when the fact is that such policies have no underlying intent of accomplishing the supposed goal.

Firm

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 1:52:08 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

To the OP -- ALL policy is about redistributing wealth (yup, right left and center). How and why are the issues.

I agree that all politics is about "who gets what".

However, it's hypocritical for many to claim that they are "worried about global warming, and therefore we need to support this policy", when the fact is that such policies have no underlying intent of accomplishing the supposed goal.

Firm

Bullshit.

You are taking one guys statement, in a foreign language no less, and declaring it to be the gospel truth. You frequently claim that those that disagree with you suffer from confirmation bias but here is a prime example of actual confirmation bias.

The simple fact is that reducing carbon emissions is a vital environmental policy that we all need to work towards. To deny that denies science so basic even you should be able to understand it.

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 2:01:34 PM   
samboct


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HE'S AN ECONOMIST!!!

"free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore "

Since this all in a very restricted context- I have no idea whether or not this guy gets the science. I could also easily see how once the idea of reducing carbon emissions is accepted, how this is going to happen could get very far removed from the science very quickly. I mean to a scientist- all you want to do is reduce carbon emissions into the atmosphere and whether that happens in Germany or in Bangladesh is irrelevant. But of course, who pays for it is of supreme importance to an economist....Doesn't this interpretation also fit with the above statements? Like I said- context is critical and its too short to really judge or get worked up about.

MM- the comment about scientists being liberals was in a recent issue of Science this year. It'd take me a while to dig out the issue, so from my perspective, it's not worth it. Note- engineers are much less liberal than scientists and are much closer to the political mainstream. In terms of why- here's my guess. Scientists are futurists- we're driven by imagination. People who become scientists want to change the world, to leave it a better place. I just heard a guy running a company now making thermoelectrics make this comment to a bunch of business guys. He freely admitted that was a big driver for him- but so was the money. Conservatives are happy with the status quo- liberals think it can be improved. Hence, scientists are liberals.


Sam

< Message edited by samboct -- 11/20/2010 2:05:34 PM >

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 2:29:03 PM   
Edwynn


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Please note that all the valid comments therein concern environmental policy, and speaks nothing of environmental concerns in their own right. Your original introductory statement contains the false and purely personal supposition of "has nothing to do with environmental protection."

A few corporate dimwits in a small conference room and the confinement of concerns therein does not constitute any legitimate refutation of scientific proof that happens to present an obstacle to their course.

Move on.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 11/20/2010 2:36:36 PM >

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 2:35:55 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I have no idea what any of this means, but as long as we are having a thread on learning new languages I thought I would contribute.

German phrases

Einfache Sätze
Notfälle
Allgemeine Konversation
Leute kennenlernen
Familie und Beziehungen

You really can act like an asshat, rml.

I gave the original German, because I suspected some people would claim "mistranslation".  The same reason that we give links, so anyone can check it out themselves.

And, if you weren't technologically challenged, you might try Google Translate or one of the other services.

Me?  I speak and read pretty good German.  I don't need your "language lesson".

Firm



Now, now Firmy.

Try and not get so upset.

Treasure told me what that does to your blood pressure.

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 2:59:08 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Now, now Firmy.

Try and not get so upset.

Treasure told me what that does to your blood pressure.


Evoking my name to lend credence to your lies is despicable.  Kindly stop.

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 3:05:21 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Now, now Firmy.

Try and not get so upset.

Treasure told me what that does to your blood pressure.


Evoking my name to lend credence to your lies is despicable.  Kindly stop.



No, I'm pretty sure you told me that.

I'll have to check.

But there's no shame in looking out for your man.

High blood pressure can cause many problems.

And as testy as he is I'm sure it is worth worrying about.

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 3:08:17 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

No, I'm pretty sure you told me that.

I'll have to check.

But there's no shame in looking out for your man.

High blood pressure can cause many problems.

And as testy as he is I'm sure it is worth worrying about.


Honestly... more lies to defend your lies? 

(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 3:11:41 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Honestly... more lies to defend your lies? 



Sure, why not?

I might as well join the KY club.

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 3:30:46 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Sure, why not?

I might as well join the KY club.


I can understand your envy, but you're sadly mistaken if you believe lying will help you in any way.  Not to mention just plain old sad.

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RE: IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing ... - 11/20/2010 4:21:47 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

No, I'm pretty sure you told me that.

I'll have to check.

But there's no shame in looking out for your man.

High blood pressure can cause many problems.

And as testy as he is I'm sure it is worth worrying about.


Honestly... more lies to defend your lies? 



Treasure, welcome to my world.


_____________________________

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