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RE: Bubonic Plague Essay - 10/27/2010 5:18:42 AM   
DesFIP


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Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
Why is this so difficult for children to understand.

Finding the sources and facts for you to understand is doing half the work for you. Claiming it isn't is a lie. At the very least you could have been honest about having waited so long and pleaded for help instead of acting as though it was your right to have others do your research for you.

And just consider the answers you have gotten a much easier punishment for not taking timely care of your responsibilities then you would get if you were in a relationship with a responsible man.


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RE: Bubonic Plague Essay - 10/27/2010 5:23:56 AM   
sunshinemiss


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My university has a LOT of ebooks on line.  I use them quite a lot for my own academic research.  I also use this:  http://scholar.google.com/ which has links to many online scholarly journals.

Good luck,
sunshine

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RE: Bubonic Plague Essay - 10/27/2010 5:28:07 AM   
barelynangel


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Okay maybe you need to go to your professor and explain your dilemma.  If you feel you have exhausted all your research and can't find what you are seeking.  Or perhaps a TA.

Also, you can check with the Centers for infectious disease.  They may be able to guide you to some information.  Also, you may be able to contact some of the medical school libraries.

All in all, i think many have it when they say actually go to the library.  The internet is fine and fun but there is nothing like actual research with actual paper products lol.

I don't see a problem asking this kind of question here, all you are asking for is the same thing you would ask your professor or TA or other students, who knows you may come across someone who has also done a paper on this subject and they could help direct you to where you can find good information.

Hell i did that in college, when i was stuck, i would ask other people for advise or to see if anyone had any ideas.  As long as they aren't writing your paper for you, i see no issue giving ideas where to find information.

angel

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RE: Bubonic Plague Essay - 10/27/2010 6:14:26 AM   
samboct


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Angel

My comments at this point- gornichht helfen. I gave her a good steer. It took me all of 30 seconds, but I'm something of a pro.

Cheers,

Sam

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RE: Bubonic Plague Essay - 10/27/2010 6:37:14 AM   
barelynangel


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Sam, I didn't read your post to her so i have no clue what you did for her.  I don't know what gornichht helfen.  I believe you are tryng to speak in german as i believe helfen is help but i don't know what gornichht is  did you mean gernicht which means maybe?  but you lost me at gornichht.

angel

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RE: Bubonic Plague Essay - 10/27/2010 6:44:40 AM   
Rule


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I suspect it is a Swedish-German hybrid: gör nicht = makes/does not. The expression might be in use in northern Germany.

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RE: Bubonic Plague Essay - 10/27/2010 6:54:22 AM   
samboct


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Hi Angel

Well, I learned it as Yiddish- (and I could be wrong on the spelling) but the translation I use is - nothing helps. Rule's actually pretty close on this one.

Here's a joke where I learned about the phrase...

In NYC, there've been a rash of attacks on nude women on rooftops. The women are found drained of blood, so naturally, people think that a vampire may be responsible. But on one hot summer day, a rather comely blond decides that some nude sunbathing just can't be resisted, so she goes up to the roof armed with a cross and some holy water blessed by the pope. In the hot sun, she falls asleep, and when she awakes, the sun has gone down, and she hears the beat of wings. Terrified, she reaches for the bottle of holy water, and sprays some on the vampire- but no effect. She makes the sign of the cross with her fingers- no effect, the vampire comes closer. Finally she reaches down for the crucifix dangling between her breasts and thrusts it at the vampire. Nothing doing. Just before he bites her, she hears the vampire say, Gornicht Helfen, baby....

Sam

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RE: Bubonic Plague Essay - 10/27/2010 11:48:59 AM   
Runningkc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
Why is this so difficult for children to understand.

Finding the sources and facts for you to understand is doing half the work for you. Claiming it isn't is a lie. At the very least you could have been honest about having waited so long and pleaded for help instead of acting as though it was your right to have others do your research for you.

And just consider the answers you have gotten a much easier punishment for not taking timely care of your responsibilities then you would get if you were in a relationship with a responsible man.



Goodness gracious. Let it go, I wasn't singling you out for assistance by any means. I can find sources, and I can find facts. I was simply looking for as many different inputs that I could so that I could find the best information out there. I didn't act like it was my right to do anything, I was simply polite, and thought somebody might WANT to put forth some information they knew off the top of their head. And my English homework has nothing to do with my personal life, relationship wise.

Relax, let it go, and as I said earlier..if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.


Edit to add, thank to to all of you who helped. I finished my paper and already got very good feed back from my professor.


< Message edited by Runningkc -- 10/27/2010 11:50:09 AM >

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RE: Bubonic Plague Essay - 10/27/2010 3:56:58 PM   
sunshinemiss


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Glad you were able to get the support you needed.  It always warms my heart to see someone asking for something very real life like that.  I, too, will often ask people for some ideas about where to get stuff for papers I'm writing.  Heck if I didn't, I'd never get anything done!  You know there are two teachers where I work that don't share resources.  All the rest of us do.  We all will email each other with our ideas, our rubrics, our presentation plans, etc.  Heck one time in the middle of a lecture (which was falling flat and no one understood), I went to another teacher's classroom and asked him how he taught the lesson.  He showed me in five minutes, I went back to my classroom, followed his lesson, and they all understood!  Just so you know, I'm like the presentation queen and people like to use my ideas for those - because that's where my strength is.  It works out really well.  We are all in the same boat so to speak, and one of the most important ways to succeed in uni is through group support.  Good on you!
best,
sunshine

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RE: Bubonic Plague Essay - 10/27/2010 5:49:55 PM   
MercTech


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Ohhh... one of my favorite periods. Not the plague, per se, but what was going on just before the great plague of 1348.

Have a look at the Hanseatic League. It was as if the renaissance was getting started a few hundred years early only to but cut short by the plague. The Hansa had trading stations along the silk road into chine, in Greenland, and into central Africa. You can still see the remains of the Hansa in names of German cities such as Hansastadt Lubeck.

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/plague.htm is a good timeline for the great plague. I've read conflicting figures but the majority say that the loss of 1/3 to 1/2 of the able bodied work force in Europe was the result after two years of the plague. What destroyed even more was the total destruction of the interdependent infrastructure. Cities closed their doors to trade and and travel for all but the upper nobility was severely curtailed. There was a resurgence of slavery under the name of serfdom where people were tied to the land and not allowed to leave as there would have been no one to till fields in many areas if the people had been able to migrate. (eastern Europe and the Balkans)

The religious mania that accompanied the great plague had some odd fallout too. There was a papal bull stating no woman would be allowed into religous orders until she had reared two children to adulthood.

Just some items off the top of my head. If I were home and not working on the road I could probably find the ISBN numbers of some of the references I have on the shelf.

You might get some help if you contact your local SCA group. You might someone who has studied that period and point you at some good references.

Stefan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Runningkc

I'm currently working on an analysis essay over the Black Plague in 14th century Europe. I'm having trouble finding reliable resources (journal articles, actual goverment statistics, ect.) I don't just want what pops up first in google. If anyone could help me out that would be fantastic, thank you!


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RE: Bubonic Plague Essay - 10/27/2010 6:01:50 PM   
DesFIP


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You wanted to know why people weren't being oh so kind and understanding. I told you why.
You keep saying this is no big thing, but if that were true you wouldn't have asked for help here. You would have gotten it yourself.

Most of all, you didn't acknowledge the fact that you were in error to leave it this long and ask politely for assistance. You acted and still do, as though you are entitled to this help.

Didn't your mother teach you any manners? Maybe it's time you get a refresher course.


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RE: Bubonic Plague Essay - 10/27/2010 7:47:32 PM   
barelynangel


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MOMMMM??? IS THAT YOU?

Damn DesFIP, all that is missing from that post is "young lady" and shaking your finger. 

Damn how weird is that, the OP's mom is on the boards -- or is it her priest and its indicated she must somehow confess her sins -- erm errors.  My question is -- did daughter realize her mom was on the same board.


angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 10/27/2010 7:50:21 PM >


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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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RE: Bubonic Plague Essay - 10/27/2010 7:57:50 PM   
Caius


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Sheesh , what an awful lot judgment and animosity heaped upon the OP for making a simple request.  I happen to agree this rather a bizarre place to be looking for that information, but then I often think the same regarding the unending stream of posts on this site pertaining to politics, news, half-baked philosophy, recipes, lawl cats and just about every other random, often inane subject having nothing to do with BDSM that people make it their daily business to debate here.  The fact of the matter is that she asked for help, she didn't demand it, nor did she in any way disparage anyone who chose not to provide it.  So if you're not interested, why not just move on to the next thread?  Is it really worth anybody's time to chastise her simply because the opportunity presented itself? Talk about catty.

However, that being said, Running, I do have some questions before I'd venture to suggest any particular materials.  First, are you looking for information regarding the disease itself and it's pathology or are you looking for information concerning the historical context in which the outbreaks occurred? I assume it's probably the latter, but one can never be sure.  How much time do you have remaining to finish this paper, enough to have your school's library request the materials from another, if necessary?  Do you know anything of which online journal databases your university subscribes to on behalf of its students?  The problem, you see, is not so much suggesting worthwhile materials, but finding those that can be of use to you in time.  In general, just a little more info on the approach of the essay (or at least what course the paper is being written for) would be helpful.   

If you're specifically looking for something to set your paper apart from the generic 'Black Death' papers (as I'm assuming for your age that this is an introductory course), then there are ample histories written about the role plague played immediately following contact between Europeans and the native peoples of the Americas.  Remember, the vast majority of native peoples died out before they ever had a chance to meet a European, whose diseases ran forward well in advance of their physical presence.  In a very real sense, the diseases of the Europeans pre-conqured two continents for them.   If you like this bent, Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel is a good place to start.  The primary concept in that book is that course of history has been shaped by the environment in which various people found themselves. In this case, Europeans had a long history of living alongside livestock, which in turn gave them diseases and thus immunities.  Native Americans, by comparison, having virtually no domesticated species, had limited immunities and no real devastating diseases to counter-infect the Europeans with.  Just food for thought.  And best of all, you can find a half dozen copies of that book in just about every college/university in the nation, it's become such a fad to teach in the last decade.

Failing that, you might try the titles bellow, though which of them you might find and whether they would be better suited to your needs than any other book on the subject you might find at your library, I don't know.  Note that most of the above I have not read myself and I can't account for the quality or relevance; they are simply references in other materials I have at hand that are peripherally connected to the subject at hand. 

Hans Zissner, Rats, Lice, and History
Geddes Smith, A Plague on Us
William McNeill, Plagues and Peoples
Alfred Crosby, The Columbian Exchange: Biological Consequences of 1492 and Ecological Imperialism
McFarlane Burnette, A Natural history of Infectious Diseases
Henry Dobyns, Their Numbers Became Thinned


Also, if you choose to go with the more 'classic' plague periods, don't forget that we don't really know for a fact if the first two "plague" pandemics were really bubonic plague entirely or a combination of virulent pathogens running around the Eurasia at the time.   Also, if you are looking for contemporaneous accounts, the Plague of Justinian is actually the better of the two to study, despite occurring first,  because it happened to be centralized right around Constantinople, one of the most learned cities of its age, whereas the Black Death was considerably more diffuse and occurred in a manner that did not put quite so many historians right on the scene.   The Third Plague (which was definitely Bubonic/Septicemic/Pneumonic Plague) is also worth looking at as a stand-out approach as most people seem to forget it's role in history compared to the first two, though it was actually active through most of the nineteenth century and well into the twentieth.

Now, these are mostly sources and facts given under the assumption that you are looking for historical information.  If you're looking to understand the disease itself and its mechanisms, I can really help you out, since I actually know quite a little bit about its pathology.  Let me know.  In any account, best of luck.

Edited to add: Bah, seems I should have done my research a little more thoroughly; I see now the OP is already done with her paper.  Oh well,  I'll leave the content up all the same, I guess.

< Message edited by Caius -- 10/27/2010 8:46:15 PM >

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RE: Bubonic Plague Essay - 10/27/2010 8:03:25 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

You wanted to know why people weren't being oh so kind and understanding. I told you why.
You keep saying this is no big thing, but if that were true you wouldn't have asked for help here. You would have gotten it yourself.

Most of all, you didn't acknowledge the fact that you were in error to leave it this long and ask politely for assistance. You acted and still do, as though you are entitled to this help.

Didn't your mother teach you any manners? Maybe it's time you get a refresher course.



Wow but this was rough.

When I went back to school as an adult, I learned that part of the whole study and research process was to seek help when needed.  She didn't ask anyone to do her work for her; she was asking if anyone knew some reliable resources. 

The lack of manners I am seeing here are not by the OP.

Runningkc: I'm glad you got the materials you needed and got your paper written.  And Aqua is right - sometimes newish posters do come here asking questions geared to do their work for them.  I didn't think your request came across like that at all.  


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RE: Bubonic Plague Essay - 10/28/2010 3:57:43 AM   
DMFParadox


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You're welcome, op.

DES, 4 out of 10 on the trolling. You're just not getting that much interest; you hafta be really antagonistic, and make sweeping generalizations which piss more people off. It's an art. And seriously, how often has the lack of planning, etc., emergency, etc., does not constitute thereof, sign and initial here... how often has that formula been bandied around lately? Like, thousands of times? Go browse snorgtees or topatco for fresher snarks. Like, "Dear Math: I'm not your therapist. Solve your own problems." I haven't heard that one before. I chuckled. Well, I smirked. On one side. Which is more than your bit got.


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