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Play party rules about married people - 10/15/2010 5:11:51 PM   
peppermint


Posts: 5175
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline 		I have decided to make a new thread here rather than derail another.  I was reading this thread  http://www.collarchat.com/m_3436921/tm.htm

It's basically a married male meeting married females and wanting advice as to how to meet safely.  Someone suggested meeting at a dungeon party.

I'm not sure how the rules work in your various areas, however, a married person whose spouse does not know and approve of what their other half is doing is not given an invitation to our dungeon parties. If the spouse is okay with it, then the married person is very welcome.  

The rule came about for a reason.  I know of a group where the following happened.  By the way, I have talked with several people who were part of this story so it's not just a story that may or may not have happened.

One of the members was a married man whose wife did not know or approve.  He kept a diary on his computer about his activities in the group and the other people's activities at the play parties.  He did not use their scene names in his diary.  He used their real names.  Of course he was careless and the wife found his diary.  She raised hell.  Then She even showed up at a nearby munch (as many of the people attended both munches) dressed as a hooker and raised hell.  This caused the other munch to have to change restaurants.  She outed people to their employers, their friends, their fellow employees.  The munch died and no play parties happened.  The man and his wife  moved overseas not too long afterward and from there she still called members of the 2 munches for quite some time to harass them and call them names.  As a result, the kinksters who were part of that munch back then or know people who were part of that group are gun shy and refuse to be part of another munch.  I can't blame them one bit.   

I'd like to know how other munches/dungeon parties ( our parties are the evening of the munch by invitation)  handle the problem of married people attending and playing without their spouse knowing.  We tend to think of it as a way to protect members of the group from unwanted hassles.
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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/15/2010 5:48:10 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		I think what you set forth here is more group by laws. .. or munch rules and not so much play party rules... at least not everywhere... what you describe is a private group, well within their rights to make rules like that, and clearly, with good reason.  There are plenty of public or semi public dungeon spaces around, I live near two myself... and one of them has an afternoon session which several of us refer to as the Beat and Cheat... its not set up for people like me, but rather for people who need to meet on Wednesday afternoon when their spouses think they are somewhere else...

in any case, there are fewer restrictive rules in public spaces...

in general, I'm not a fan of people going behind their spouses' backs.. but its done every single day... and sometimes places like this facilitate it... unfortunately...



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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/15/2010 5:59:39 PM   
Nineveh


Posts: 1299
Joined: 2/5/2008
Status: offline 		The fact he knew people's real names is an indication that scene names were not being used properly.  Scene names are not there to make us feel sexier (well, maybe that too) they are there for protection, don't introduce yourself by saying "Hi, I'm John, but you can call me Octavius"  Say "Hi you can call me Octavius" and if someone asks your real name give them the sort of look you give someone who is awfully rude.

As far as married people, I suppose that is up to the organizers, but I wouldn't think of it as a way to protect people.  If you want to set moral rules set moral rules and be proud of it.  Just because we are perverts doesn't mean we don't have morals. 

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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/15/2010 6:01:52 PM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline 		First let me insult the moron in your tale of woe. 1) Don't marry a woman that hates your version of sex. 2) If you do marry someone that hates your version of sex that much, stop having it without her permission. 3) If you do something that will piss your wife off that much, don't write it down. 4) If you do write it down, don't use real names.

I don't insult that person just for fun. By my count, he committed at least 4 incredible acts of stupidity. There is nothing you can do to protect yourself against someone that stupid unless you don't let them into your party. What if the guy wasn't married, but simply got arrested and his 'diary' got seized? In the hands of a Tea Bagger elected D.A., that could start a similar crusade. Or what if his wife was OK with it, but they ended up getting a nasty divorce and the diary was used as evidence? Or what if he had no diary, but his wife suspected and hired a Private eye to find out what he was doing - complete with a hidden camera recording?

When attempting to create a safe BDSM environment, your first goal has to be to prevent morons as stupid as this guy from coming. Put up clear rules that no recordings of any kind - no pictures, no audio, no movies, not even WRITTEN diaries are allowed to record what happens. If some idiot makes a scene about this, he isn't allowed in. If you must admit people that are 'cheating' on their wives, then make it clear to everyone that is going on and be sure that no real names are ever mentioned, unless the people hare out to their family, their boss, and their landlord.

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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/15/2010 6:03:27 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Well anyone can threaten to out you and your friends.  This very thing happened to me, after the end of a relationship with a dominant I met here.  You do not have to be an angry spouse to create that sort of drama.

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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/15/2010 6:06:51 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I mentioned about meeting at a dungeon for safety reasons if you feel you can't be safe anywhere else. It had nothing to do with being married. I'm from an area where there are public dungeons, anyone can pay a door fee and get in....anyone. What you describe is a private party and that's up to that group to set their own rules be it whatever they wish.

I don't advocate cheating in any way at all. I actually find it despicable and I have zero respect for such people but if you're gonna play with a complete stranger and you want witnesses then by all means, a public dungeon is the place to do it at.


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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/15/2010 6:56:35 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I also suggested a public dungeon. Meaning a club like Paddles, not a private party.

But she didn't have to be an angry cheated-on woman. As others have said, people get outed after a divorce. Or if one person has nothing to lose and the other does, people threaten to out the other for refusing to have sex with them. If you play in public you do risk being identified. And just because Mr X is a lawyer and would be hurt by being outed, that doesn't mean that Mr Y isn't a self employed landscaper who doesn't care if he is outed. Should they butt heads for any reason. Mr X could well be in trouble.


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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/15/2010 10:20:58 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I don't know of ANY dungeon that demands proof of martial status prior to accepting membership.  Seriously, what do they do, demand a divorce certificate?  If the guy or woman is married they get treated like anyone else.  In all likelihood no one knows their status unless they are close friends, and even then sometimes people keep the scene to the scene, and don't mix their worlds.
The guy in your senario OP was a jackass.  Keeping details about his kink is one thing, but to name names, and recount personal details about other people is stupid.  He was probably going to use it for his own nefarious purposes.
I see a LOT Of people ragging on marrieds for playing around but if my view its not my freakin business unless I am planning to fuck them.

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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/16/2010 1:23:59 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		At munches in the UK it isn't an invite only event. Anyone can turn up and most of us are oblivious to their private affairs.

Its a difficult one really because lots of married people are doing this behind their partners back without having an affair with anyone. They are often not looking for anything more than a little voyeurism and wouldn't dream of having an affair. Their marriages are often strong ones but their need for a little rl BDSM is a real one but not one they are prepared to jeopardize their marriage over. Should we ban people like this? I think if we did we would be banning half the community.
If I was running a private house party and I knew someone was married/cohabiting and that their partner was oblivious and that this person was known to have affairs with scene people, there is no way they would get an invite.
I had a friend, now an ex friend who couldn't keep his dick in his pants. He had 3 subs on the go and none of them knew about each other. He used the smaller private parties because they were more discreet. I stopped inviting him to my parties and avoiding parties that I knew he would be attending. I didn't do it because I was afraid of the aftermath if the other girls found out, I did it because I was disgusted with his behavior and I certainly wasn't going to encourage it under my own roof.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 10/16/2010 1:26:18 AM >

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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/16/2010 7:25:51 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I think for some people, the threat of being outed/discovered as a hard-core bdsm'er is what excites them about public play.

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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/16/2010 8:26:37 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


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Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Well anyone can threaten to out you and your friends.  This very thing happened to me, after the end of a relationship with a dominant I met here.  You do not have to be an angry spouse to create that sort of drama.


Yep. I contacted a guy who had a collarme profile stating he lived in my small town/city. I thought, yay! Someone local!

I wasn't around him long before I knew I wanted nothing to do with the guy. I went home after only about 30 minutes visiting with him. Next day I told him I wasn't interested, and he threatened to tell my children about what I was into. A valid threat, at least you'd think so, since at it turns out he knew my sons. Although, if REALLY knew my sons he'd know better than to threaten their mom. Anyway, sort of relevant, in that you don't even have to attend a party where married people might be cheating to risk exposure. Drama happens.

Personally, I don't care any longer about my real name being known, nor do I worry about being 'outed'. If someone wanted to dig deep enough, I'm listed as an executive board member of one BDSM club, as a witness for my BDSM club in one court case. A map to the home I lived in has been posted front page of a newspaper and the story of our yearly event and picture of home and property has been aired on prime-time news. I'm probably as 'outed' as it is possible to get.

I would like to say that a married man who keeps a diary of his indiscretions is a dumb ass.

As for rules. My rules were you had to be a member or a guest of a member to attend. To become a member you had to attend a few munches and get to know a current member who was willing to sponsor you as a guest; OR have references from another group or individuals known to us. We did our best to network with other group members/leaders to make this addendum as viable as possible. If you sponsored a guest, and they behaved badly or broke rules, you risked losing your membership yourself. Only screen names/scene names were used at parties and as member names (only myself and two other staff members knew actual full names and emergency contact information). Participants were not permitted to discuss what happened at a party unless it was with someone who had attended the party and were not permitted to post anything that happened at the party on any site. Doing so was cause to immediately lose membership. We never asked if someone was married or if their spouse was aware. Never occurred to any of us to ask that! Our goal wasn't to make money and pack the house. It was to provide as safe a venue to play in as possible. Despite our restrictions, we never had any trouble paying the rent, liability insurance or utilities. Legal fees were free, our lawyer's retainer fee was his waived membership fees! Never had any complaints about the rules either, probably because the only other available play space was about 2 hours away. Never had any disgruntled and lunatic wives either. Although, we did have one horrified landlord who evicted us when he did a walk through, despite his estate manager knowing exactly what the venue was being rented for. Drama does happen.

< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 10/16/2010 8:33:58 AM >

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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/16/2010 2:39:39 PM   
sofldan


Posts: 150
Joined: 11/15/2008
Status: offline 		It can go that way for sure. But if anyone were to tell me that they were gonna tell someones kids, I would probably beat them to within an inch of their life. Who in the hell do you think you are to go telling something like that to kids? I have two grown daughters and they know what I am into, but if someone were to have told me they were going to tell them stuff before they were of age we have problems. Best bet is to keep on the safe side, don't cheat on your wife/husband whatever. If they aren't into what you are into then maybe you need to discuss things and find an alternative. Secrets and lies only lead to bigger problems than what the original issue was. Just my 2 cents. 

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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/16/2010 4:37:46 PM   
whiteslavebitch


Posts: 479
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not sure how the rules work in your various areas, however, a married person whose spouse does not know and approve of what their other half is doing is not given an invitation to our dungeon parties. If the spouse is okay with it, then the married person is very welcome


But if a person is cheating on their spouse, how would you know it? They would be likely to lie to you to gain entrance to your dungeon.

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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/16/2010 6:01:37 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		I feel compelled to point out that three of my four boys were all but almost grown. I just laughed and told the guy, for his own sake, he really didn't want to start talking bad about me. My sons are very protective of me. As any son is toward his mom! For me, it wasn't a big deal. Just an impotent threat. I was just using that experience to illustrate how drama happens, even in the oddest ways

Also, in case I'm somehow guilty by association for posting to this thread! I've never - not once - not ever - cheated on anyone. It just isn't someting I'd do.


quote:

ORIGINAL: sofldan

It can go that way for sure. But if anyone were to tell me that they were gonna tell someones kids, I would probably beat them to within an inch of their life. Who in the hell do you think you are to go telling something like that to kids? I have two grown daughters and they know what I am into, but if someone were to have told me they were going to tell them stuff before they were of age we have problems. Best bet is to keep on the safe side, don't cheat on your wife/husband whatever. If they aren't into what you are into then maybe you need to discuss things and find an alternative. Secrets and lies only lead to bigger problems than what the original issue was. Just my 2 cents. 


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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/17/2010 12:42:19 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		I want to know how he knew their real names. See, I go by my real name if you meet me in person. My first name. And it's one of the most historic and common names you'll find. So good luck tracking me by it.

None of the munches or groups I attend grill people about if they are married when they arrive. A person could show up by themselves with a wedding band without an issue. Why should it be their business? I am usually by myself and I wear a wedding band - should they have to call Valyraen to make sure he approves of me being there?

Munches, or at least those I attend and the ones I help run, advertise on kinky sites. People can get the info for them.

Frankly, I blame the wife for her poor behavior. She did the outing, she raised hell. It's not the husband's fault that she's a nutcase. Yes, he was wrong to cheat. But two wrong do not make a right. I do not expect munches or play parties to police the morals of those attending beyond what is needed for safety. Those who reveal their names, places of employement, etc are putting themselves at risk and this is not the fault of the groups. Those who run groups need to be aware of the risks they are taking by running them.

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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/17/2010 7:10:23 AM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline 		All of the outing and trauma and distress that you highlighted in your OP could just as easily happen at the hand of any disgruntled single ex munch member. Hanging this albatross around the necks of married folk (and, no I am not married) is really shortsighted, IMO.

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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/17/2010 7:30:51 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I want to know how he knew their real names. See, I go by my real name if you meet me in person. My first name. And it's one of the most historic and common names you'll find. So good luck tracking me by it.

I just did a quick mental count-I know the full names of maybe twenty kinksters-through facebook adds or comparing terrible ID pictures or just humorous stories featuring their full names (and several times through meeting the parents and needing to know what to call them ).

I still use acronyms in writing, though.


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RE: Play party rules about married people - 10/17/2010 8:58:36 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

not even WRITTEN diaries


I'm sorry, but this is BS -- I can understand no recording devices... but NOBODY... NO-BO-DY is going to tell me what I can and can't write in my personal diary. PERIOD. That is SERIOUSLY "thought police".

When we were in a similar situation, unbeknownst to us (the gentleman in question told us he was divorced and showed us the divorce decree -- he just didn't bother to mention that he'd re-married the same woman 3 months later!!!) our solution was to get a restraining order against the wife (who was calling and threatening SR on almost a daily basis). We would have had no problem pressing charges if she'd continued.

As far as "outing people to their employers"... that's going to be a risk no matter WHERE you go if you participate in public groups in alt lifestyles. If it isn't a disgruntled or cheated-on mate, it could be someone who was asked to leave the group, or a disappointed individual who "didn't get" the person xhe came to the group to pursue, etc... The best we can do is protect ourselves as best we can, and have a plan if things go south. I've lived as a member of SEVERAL alternative-lifestyle groups over the years, and accepted that doing so meant that I might have to choose between a job or place of residence and my chosen way of life... I've done everything in my power to protect myself and my household -- and then made damned sure I had an "exit plan" if things went horribly bad horribly quickly. That, to me, is part of the responsibility that comes along with choosing to live a life on the fringes of "polite society".

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 10/17/2010 8:59:49 AM >

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