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For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 8:26:08 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		For the most part we have a drive of people coming together in relationships with the expectation it will before a lifetime. Seldom do you see people come together with the expecation that it will last only as long as it will last. When you consider that for the most part, it would seem that relationships seldom are lasting that lifetime. In fact, they are lasting only so long and they end. A few are a peaceful ending but most seem to be rather painful and even a few are explosive.

Why does it seem that so many are looking for that lifetime togetherness when realistically the odds seem to be against it from happening. II have been around the lifestyle community for more than 10 years and I can count on one hand the relationships that are still together that I have met over the course of that time. I am alittle morbid at the moment since rather recently I learned of another relationship of people we know end.

Why do we do it... why do we chance this "what appears to be an unrealistic expectation. Alandra and I have been together for about 22 years now and Kyra, Alandra and I are approaching six years next spring. We still look to spend a lifetime together and have no worries within our relationship that this will not indeed occur..... but yet... we we look out the window it seems to be rather stormy out there.

Is it a realistic expecation to find someone to spend a lifetime with? Is this expectation only creating more pain and hurt when the relationship runs it's course? If we didn't have this expectation... would life be better? Would people be happier? What do you think?



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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 8:33:04 AM   
poise


Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline 		I cant imagine not expecting the best out of any endeavor I dedicate myself to, be it
relationship or otherwise. I feel that when you place greater expectations on something/someone
you are involved with, you put all the more effort into making it succeed.
No amount of effort towards happiness is a wasted effort, even if that happiness is only fleeting.


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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 8:44:49 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		In some ways, I agree with you Knight. I frequently think that "back in the day" when this whole "till death do you part" thing was invented, "death" happened A LOT younger than it does now. If you figure people got married at 12 or so and died at mid 40's, that's a spread of 28 years. Now, people get married at say 25 and they die at 85... and getting higher all the time. So even now we have a 60 year requirement rather than 28. Effectively we're asking for twice as much. Not just that, but it's a long period AFTER the exigencies of raising children are done. And finally, just to add insult to injury, the economic requirements are a lot lower now so there is way less economic pressure to remain married.

All that being said, I still cannot conceive of it any other way. I am built to form permanent intimate bonds. Friends come and go in my life easily. Lovers do not. In the end, I'll let a bad marriage go. I've been divorced twice. But that's never my expectation. In the end, if one doesn't shoot for the moon, then there is zero chance of hitting it.

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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 8:48:22 AM   
Nslavu


Posts: 342
Joined: 2/1/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: poise

I cant imagine not expecting the best out of any endeavor I dedicate myself to, be it
relationship or otherwise. I feel that when you place greater expectations on something/someone
you are involved with, you put all the more effort into making it succeed.
No amount of effort towards happiness is a wasted effort, even if that happiness is only fleeting.



Isn't not all happiness only fleeting. (double speak intended )



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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 8:55:12 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Sorry to hear you're feeling a bit blue, KoM.  Still nice to see you posting though.

If you can only do the counting on one hand, I have to say that My experience is a bit different than yours.  Many of the folks that I know have been together for years and going strong.  One couple just celebrated thirty years together last week.  (They are a D/D couple so people who live near My area probably know who I'm talking about.)

I don't know about the expectation part.  Every non kinky couple that gets married has the same expectation.  Just considering the divorce rate, obviously, it doesn't work out that way.

Looking at My own situation, it's very difficult for Me to say how I feel about it one way or the other.  I expect MP and I to be "for a lifetime" and it might turn out that way with clip too, but it's not an automatic assumption for Me should I want to add someone to the household.  With all things considered, I just don't believe it's practical to think that way.  We're not stationary due to his career, so that changes things for Me.  If that were different, I can't say how I'd feel about it.

I think we do need to be realistic, knowing that people don't come with guarantees.  Still, I don't think it's wrong of us to have hopes.  I think most people really do have that part of them that wants someone to live happily with and to grow old with.  Those are possible outcomes, too.


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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 9:07:30 AM   
Steelslilbit


Posts: 130
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Status: offline 		^.^  Please don't beat me (too hard).  I'm a realist.  Some people would call me a cynic, but that's not really accurate.  I know the "perfect" relationship and the "perfect" other is just simply not out there.  I know that there have been a LOT of failures in relationships, and I can't even begin to say that the one I am currently in will be forever.  Do I hope it is?  Do I want Damien to be the last in the list of guys I've committed myself to?  Absolutely.  But I have never been one to put blinders on and refuse to face reality.  We have a solid foundation, we have many commonalities, and our differences aren't catastrophic.... however even with the odds in our favor we only stand a chance.  In life there are no guarantees (but death and taxes, and we aren't too sure on the death part).

But being realistic and starting a relationship with the intent that it is going to end are two very different things.  I think that if you are with someone and you think the relationship isn't going to last....then it isn't.  Another of life's self-fulfilling prophesies.  Life is full of weights and measures, gives and takes, balances on highwires.

Everyone is going to hurt you sooner or later, intentional or not.  Those we love often end up hurting us the worse (hello... your parents...^.^). 
~smiles~  But the one worth the hurt the most is the one who would rather hurt themselves.


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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 9:53:28 AM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline 		With my current slave, sadly I've had to tell him up front that my ownership of him is temporary. It doesn't fit with my concept of ownership at all, but he's not the right boy for me in the long term. So since I know that, I'm honest about it.

With the last one, I had unrealistic hopes. We both did. Love is like that. You get all starry-eyed... It was painful for us both when we realised we'd had blinders on, and that we were really not compatible enough in our vanilla lives and goals, to last very long together.

So yeah- although it kinda sucks- its better this way because now my current boy knows that we've got a short time together, and we need to make the most of it while we can. I feel better, being more realistic about it because I think we can both avoid a lot of unnecessary pain, this way. Its a good thing.

Edited to add:
After all, someone ALWAYS ends up leaving the other one, so everyone has a breakup eventually, as has been pointed out to me: even if you are together until one partner dies, one of you will ALWAYS eventually leave the other through death. So everyone always will either leave, or be left alive without their beloved. Its just a fact of life. So why make a big deal about it? Its normal.

(...Unless you both die at the same time. But lets not go there.)

< Message edited by dreamerdreaming -- 10/15/2010 10:06:47 AM >

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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 10:10:39 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Do you not think that this is something that can be generally said about vanilla relationships too?

I think BDSM relationships may be more likely to fail because they're inherently more complex - as well as the vanilla compatibility in terms of values, outlook, goals etc, you add a complicated set of "kinky things" where a match is required - but on the whole I think the general "till death do us part, doesn't mean 'till-death' any more" trend in nilla-land is simply occurring in kinkland.

Should we continue to aspire to a lifelong relationship? I think it's natural to want something that's wonderful (now) to continue forever, it's natural to want to make plans with a partner, "where to go on holiday" for example. Continually making plans with the caveat "if we're still together" would at least take some of the magic away, surely? "If we're still together next summer, shall we go to Aruba?" is hardly enticing.

At the same time, I share some of Steelslilbit's view - You can strike a balance between starry-eyed belief in "forever" and just assuming it's going to fail.



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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 10:10:43 AM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline 		~FR~When I go into a relationship, I would like it to last a lifetime and I plan on that happening, yet I know that the odds are against it and might not happen. I guess I just like to think positive.

~sweetsub~

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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 10:14:47 AM   
favesclava


Posts: 1608
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		i could not give all of me if i didnt believe its forever. my vanilla relationships were all long term. 10 years ,5 years ,9 years again with the first for a total 19, 4 years with a female, 4 years. (yes, i was very young).i always held back part of me because i knew it was not forever.He will never let me go. not because i'm pretty or a total slut. but because i'm the slave He desires me to be. i couldnt submit so deeply if i didnt believe that when i pass He will be there to say goodbey or on the other side to say hello.
a young domme here wrote me silly girl you're old enough to know better than to believe in forevers. i wrote back forevers do happen . and using a line (badly) from peter pan , i wrote i'm clapping my hands because i do believe , i do believe in forever.

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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 10:17:28 AM   
homedude47


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Before I got involved in the lifestyle, I had a 34 year old vanilla marriage that was interrupted by the Grim Reaper.  We didn't always act like each others' best friends, but we were.  I'm not expecting to find anywhere near that kind of relationship in the kink community.  But if I seriously connect with anyone, I'll try to ride that train until it jumps off the tracks.

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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 10:24:20 AM   
antinomy


Posts: 124
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		I was just having a similar discussion with a dom the other day.  He said that he will not leave a permanent mark, even on an owned slave- no tatoos, brandings, nothing along those lines.  His reason being that, no matter how well intentioned, and how determined to stay together- it's a fact that the vast majority of relationships end.   I know he's right, let's face it, many of us are here searching because we have experienced it. 

So why do I keep looking?  Because, while I have not gotten it right yet, I still believe it exists.   After all, there can only be one "happily ever after" in a lifetime (well, more in the case of widowhood and poly relationships);still,  it's exceedingly rare.   Not everybody finds it, but I don't think many people really make a commitment to it, either.  We live in a time and place where everything is disposable, even people.  It's much easier to walk away than to stay and MAKE it work.  Before people get upset, of course, there are times when staying is not a great idea; especially if abuse is involved.  But, I think there is more to it than that.  We don't have that same vested interest in staying together, so when the going gets tough, people get going.  Why bother to struggle through it together?  It's much easier to just start over sometimes.

Some people claim they are looking for it; but it's the fantasy they are seeking.  They want the fairytale ending, without remembering that most fairytales had more than their fair share of heartache, doubt, and strife.  They only made it to the "happily ever after" because they dealt with what was thrown at them, and put in the work to get there.  I would imagine that, the long-term couples You speak of realized this- and stuck it out.   So, while the odds seem stacked against us, if  we find that partner that truly feels the same, take the time BEFORE we leap to get to know them and what we are committing to, I don't see any reason why more people can not join those ranks.

As I told the dom I was talking to, I would never be permanently collared to someone that I would NOT accept a permanent mark from.  Whether or not my Master desires that is, of course, up to him.  But the thing is, when I do find Him, I fully expect it to be forever, and will work my butt off to uphold my side of that commitment.

anti~




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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 10:39:15 AM   
MistressDarkArt


Posts: 5178
Status: offline 		I recently attended a wedding of two dear friends who have been together about 10 years.  Both are around 50, both firefighters.  They had a beautiful Quaker wedding and the vows were pretty familiar until they got to the part 'as long as we both shall....'  They each said: 'As long as we both shall love,' instead of 'live.'

Realists, for sure.  Yet I know they are 100% committed.

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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 10:54:31 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
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Status: offline
quote:

Is it a realistic expecation to find someone to spend a lifetime with? Is this expectation only creating more pain and hurt when the relationship runs it's course? If we didn't have this expectation... would life be better? Would people be happier? What do you think?


I think that the challenge here comes in the wording of the question. Honestly, "expectation" in and of itself, is frought with problems. Expectations are our own biases imprinted on people and situations, often without their knowledge, awareness, or participation. Expectations, in my experience, are often unspoken "rules" that we believe other people will live by, because that is what WE would do in a given situation... and when they don't, or when they won't change themselves fast enough to suit the changes that -we- are going through, many times we are human, and we "look out for #1"... and in the process, we notice more and more of our expectations that are simply not being met... and so we start to lose interest in maintaining the relationship and doing the (very necessary) work of supporting the OTHER person or people in that relationship with the knowledge that THEY are supporting us... we simply lose hope, and stop believing in the other person, and therefore in the relationship.

I prefer to look at relationships as "potential". EVERY relationship has the POTENTIAL to last a lifetime -- whether or not it reaches that potential depends very much on the choices and needs of the people who are participating in that relationship. I think that it is -fine- to go into a relationship with the -hope- that it will last for a lifetime... but I think that it is problematic to go into a relationship with the -expectation- that it will last a lifetime. When we have hope, and when we make our decisions from the perspective of what will nourish the -relationship-, and when our experiences show us, over time, that the other person or people with whom we are relating are -also- looking out for the relationship (and, as a corollary, looking out for -us-), it is easier, I think, to continue to make those decisions that are supportive of a healthy, long-lasting relationship.

I think that some relationships will last -- the people in those relationships will continue to value the relationship, and will continue to have hope for a future together... and they will make choices that support the relationship, without hanging a barrel of unvoiced "expectations" on it to weigh it down. I think that other relationships won't last -- I think that the people in those relationships will realize, at some point, that the potential of the relationship either is not going to reach some hidden need that they are only just beginning to understand -- or they'll decide that they are happier not having to consider the relationship first, or they'll want to make decisions without having to consider other people involved with the relationship, and the relationship will disintegrate. In some cases, the individuals will go -into- the relationship with the idea that it will be a short-term interaction, for specific purpose, and that will be sufficient for everyone involved.

Just my opinion, but I think that, if you and your ladies are all seeking the potential of a relationship that lasts a lifetime, and you continue as I've seen the three of you interact since I've been on these boards in your consideration of the relationship, and of each other, your relationship will be just fine, and it will last as long as the three of you want it to.... and if that changes, I know that you'll handle it maturely and with respect for one another -- and what more could someone ask for?

Calla


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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 11:15:01 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		What is love and how long will it last?  It will last as long as you choose because love is a choice as is a relationship or partnership. 

Sometimes a situation changes, like she can't have children and isn't poly minded enough to handle other women in the family having babies when she can't.  Her choice, get more poly minded, adjust personality or move out.  So the live-in partnership ended but 10 years later she lived next-door and we're still best friends and occasional lovers. 

Relationships start and end by choice and I can understand why people would choose to think it will be a lifetime when they commit to a partnership.  I can also understand people getting mad or explosive when they change their mind later and end it.  Sometimes people are sensitive about having investing their ego in the partnership.  Their self image is a reflection of the couple.  When they break up, they feel the other person is "taking something" from them, from that ego image and they get mad.  I was lucky and very young when I learned to have more than one ego, my personal image and my ego as a couple as separate.  But nonetheless, I understand how other people have them overlapping or blended as one.


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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 12:06:44 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

For the most part we have a drive of people coming together in relationships with the expectation it will before a lifetime. Seldom do you see people come together with the expecation that it will last only as long as it will last. When you consider that for the most part, it would seem that relationships seldom are lasting that lifetime. In fact, they are lasting only so long and they end. A few are a peaceful ending but most seem to be rather painful and even a few are explosive.

Why does it seem that so many are looking for that lifetime togetherness when realistically the odds seem to be against it from happening. II have been around the lifestyle community for more than 10 years and I can count on one hand the relationships that are still together that I have met over the course of that time. I am alittle morbid at the moment since rather recently I learned of another relationship of people we know end.
Sorry for your moroseness Knight but, as Lady Pact noted, it is nice to see you post.

I've been around the lifestyle for 12 years now and actively involved for 10.  You use the word "expectation" and Calla uses the word "hope".  I think the two words can both be used, at different times, depending on the relationship a person is entering into.  When I entered into my first D/s dynamic, I did not have any "hopes" for a "forever" relationship.  She was happily married, I was a bit shell-shocked just coming off a 20 year relationship/marriage, there was an age difference that would have eventually created a problem, and she had "expectations" within her marriage as did her husband.  But...she needed something and it turned out to be me.  I needed something and it turned out to be her.  Her husband needed something and it turned out to be his submissive.  So she and I entered into the relationship with a defined set of goals and an "expectation" that it would last as long as it was good for both of us and/or until circumstances dictated otherwise.  With those expectations in place...and no false hopes of a lifetime together...the relationship traveled its' course and ended with her becoming a dominant to others with much of her dominance based on what I taught her and what we learned together.  Because of that, we are still friends...on rare occasions,  D/s partners and lovers ( I still make her feel submissive towards me and she still feels a "want" of Me though certainly not at the level it was.  I'm human enough to admit that flatters me), and love each other. 

The other D/s relationships I entered into with "hopes" that they would be long-term.  "Hope" that was bolstered by an awful lot of communication.  All that communication led to certain "expectations" on my part and theirs.  But as Calla noted, we all make choices.  Those choices often have a lot to do with selfish needs and wants and little to do with what is best for "we".  Still don't quite understand that as it seems to me that once you commit to a relationship, then...to a large extent..."we" should come first.  Otherwise...why commit to it?  I know there are alllllll kinds of reasons given...I didn't think it would be this hard/I don't want to uproot myself/ I don't want to control/be controlled in that way/he-she "expects" too much or not enough but I wonder sometimes...how many of the "reasons" given are often just excuses for an inability to commit to someone/something just because there MAY be something "just a bit better" out there...more along the road towards the perfection being sought without having to work as hard.  That may sound a bit cynical and a bit hard, but I've found it to be true in many cases and not just my own. 

And yet...I maintain hope.  I won't enter into a relationship without hope for it being successful but I continue to temper it more and more...to the point where I wonder if I am too hard in my expectations sometimes.  But I know several submissives...some that belong to others and who will never be mine but because of their own outlook...who make me think that it is possible.

quote:

Why do we do it... why do we chance this "what appears to be an unrealistic expectation. Alandra and I have been together for about 22 years now and Kyra, Alandra and I are approaching six years next spring. We still look to spend a lifetime together and have no worries within our relationship that this will not indeed occur..... but yet... we we look out the window it seems to be rather stormy out there.
For some of us...and yeah, this is the romantic in me...we do it because to live without a partner, without someone there who loves us in ways that no one else does, is a life but a lonely one.

quote:

Is it a realistic expecation to find someone to spend a lifetime with? Is this expectation only creating more pain and hurt when the relationship runs it's course? If we didn't have this expectation... would life be better? Would people be happier? What do you think?
I enter into a relationship with the hope that it will last.  I do not enter into one anymore with the expectation that it will...my expectations are built around the structure of the relationship/the dynamic itself...not on length.  I too believe in something that RS said...and Calla said in a slightly different way..."What is love and how long will it last?  It will last as long as you choose because love is a choice as is a relationship or partnership."  I do believe in the idea that love is a choice...just as wanting someone is a choice, lusting for someone is a choice, wanting to snuggle with someone is a choice.  That puts the onus on me as a person involved in a relationship and on the person involved in a relationship with me.  I can't make someone want me...I can have everything they need and there might still not be any chemistry (yes, I understand that there is chemistry involved)...but once you have entered into a relationship with me, continuing to want me in one way or another is a choice that you make based on many things.  Not all those things have to do with me...which is why it is your choice.   

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 10/15/2010 12:10:15 PM >

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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 12:17:24 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I don't know if there are any lifestyle statistics. But marriages end in divorce about half the time. Which means that half of them do last a lifetime.

However I would be very surprised if you would see a great many couples who have been together a long time out doing public play. Just as I would be surprised to see people still playing tennis together after 40 years. Even if they still play sometimes, it doesn't mean the interest in the sport is as strong as it was when you were learning. I played racquetball for about ten years, but the marriage outlasted it by over 15 years. The fact that we weren't still playing together didn't mean the marriage was doomed.

And yes, I see dungeon activities on exactly that level. But with the years, the knees go, you can't deal with loud noise, and you have other responsibilities, so you may play at home sometime but not with the same intensity as when it was new.

Whether or not there are still couples out there with the same dynamic as when they were younger is an entirely different question than if there are still couples playing in public together.


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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 1:27:26 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Since humans are living longer (or so it feels anyway these days), the old notion of "Till Death Do Us Part" seems to be not quite accurate with many marriages or other relationships. However, since BDSM relationship dynamics do not differ other than kinkiness than many mundane ones I seriously doubt that BDSM relationships have a higher mortality rate then do others in the wider realm of society. I would believe though that the percentages of people staying together longer will be dependent on the racial and cultural demographics, together with religious beliefs.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 10/15/2010 1:28:07 PM >

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RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 1:35:44 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I've known my owner for 10 yrs and been owned by him for roughly 6 yrs and I still don't think of *forever*. I look ahead, at most, to *next summer*.

There's no security, for me, in the *forever* thing......... the only security is in making as sure as he and I can, that we are in the best place for ourselves.....and that we both still want to be there. It's an ongoing process as time slides along.

No matter how much I'd like the security of *for lifetime*, the reality is that it'll only occur if we still both want each other in significant ways: in the ways that count, to US.

It's easy to type up a storm about how wonderful the whole thing is , but the truth is that it has had more than it's fair share of hideous upsets too where we are heartily pissed off with each other. I've flung my collar back a few times and he's stated his intention of taking it off ME once.

And yet we are still here, still together, still interested in each other , still frustrated with each other, still have questions to ask about each other, never bored, still laughing together, still sharing everyday crap, still driving each other mad at times.. and still M/s.

There's no real answer to why people drift apart, even though *communication* is spouted SO often...sometimes it just has reached as far as you can go even with the best will in the world.

Even if we heard how other people find long-lived contentment and pleasure, it's related to THEM , not us.   Luck plays such a big part in who we bump into.

agirl

















(in reply to MistressDarkArt)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: For a Lifetime!!! Realistic? - 10/15/2010 2:33:15 PM   
SomethingCatchy


Posts: 796
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Why does it seem that so many are looking for that lifetime togetherness when realistically the odds seem to be against it from happening. II have been around the lifestyle community for more than 10 years and I can count on one hand the relationships that are still together that I have met over the course of that time. I am alittle morbid at the moment since rather recently I learned of another relationship of people we know end.


Relationships end for two reasons - incompatibility and immaturity. You can have people 50, 60, 70 years old still struggling with making relationships last, because of their immaturity. They are naive and don't understand how to treat each other in order to make it last. These are the things I've been learning since working on my own relationship so that MY relationship will last for forever.


_____________________________

I believe in Invisible Pink Unicorns

Everyone is gay for Joseph Gordon-Levitt.

Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 20
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