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Suicide- - 10/6/2010 11:09:59 AM   
pahunkboy


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I wonder how many try it and just at the point that it is too late- change their mind.  





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RE: Suicide- - 10/6/2010 11:15:00 AM   
Rule


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I have done some research into this and concluded that nearly all people who commit suicide have some mental illness, including addictions as those also damage the mind. May they rest in peace.

Some alleged suicides in fact are murders, though.

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RE: Suicide- - 10/6/2010 1:47:37 PM   
DesFIP


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Actually post-humous MRIs show changes in the brain of suiciders that don't exist in normal brains. Studies of the severely depressed also show these changes. Suicide is a mental illness, where the brain does not recognize normal behavior or ways to address problems.

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RE: Suicide- - 10/6/2010 2:55:50 PM   
Missokyst


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I always thought suicide was a permanant solution to what is essentially a temporary condition.  Not all people who attempt suicide are mentally ill. 

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RE: Suicide- - 10/6/2010 3:12:46 PM   
MarcEsadrian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I always thought suicide was a permanant solution to what is essentially a temporary condition.  Not all people who attempt suicide are mentally ill. 


Well said.



Rest in peace, Peter.

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RE: Suicide- - 10/6/2010 3:16:23 PM   
daddysprop247


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suicide is not a sign of mental illness...that assumption has always burned my britches. every free person should have the right to do as they will with their own body, as long as it (physically) harms no other. and who, more than self, is better qualified to determine whether or not a life is worth living? perhaps the visible differences in brain activity and chemistry between suicides and the severely depressed is merely the difference between those who live in denial, and those who live in reality. ?

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RE: Suicide- - 10/6/2010 4:04:12 PM   
TribeTziyon


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A lot of times a choice in a moment is not the one that the person would normally make.

It's a choice you can't get back.

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RE: Suicide- - 10/6/2010 4:11:03 PM   
angelikaJ


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I believe that this statement is often (but not always) true:

"Suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain."



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RE: Suicide- - 10/6/2010 4:12:10 PM   
PeanutTigerinBox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TribeTziyon

A lot of times a choice in a moment is not the one that the person would normally make.

It's a choice you can't get back.


but then it's also often not a "normal" situation for them to cope with either...

apart from that, well said :o)

quote:

suicide is not a sign of mental illness...that assumption has always burned my britches. every free person should have the right to do as they will with their own body, as long as it (physically) harms no other. and who, more than self, is better qualified to determine whether or not a life is worth living? perhaps the visible differences in brain activity and chemistry between suicides and the severely depressed is merely the difference between those who live in denial, and those who live in reality. ?


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RE: Suicide- - 10/6/2010 4:39:49 PM   
Aneirin


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Life is the right of mankind, so is death, as to premature death, that itself is a problem, for we can be the fitness of fit, the mentaly in control as is possible, but we just dont know what the future holds, the very next day shit in an increasing  technological world may happen and that against all odds, for we make use in our daily lives  those things once thought dangerous to the existence of life.

If a person has the right to life, then it stands that a person has a right to death also, why is one thought good and the other bad ?



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RE: Suicide- - 10/6/2010 4:48:14 PM   
MzSensual


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All except a few, I agree with the masses, "in this forum."

I will admit I was there when I was 15.  Scariest black hole I ever saw.

I have said to others, I did not choose to enter this life and I'll be damned if medical technological advances keep me from making the choice to leave, with dignity.

My utmost concern are the many who come home from combat and cannot deal with PTSD and kill themselves.

Do NOT even go there and tell me it is a sin to commit suicide.  I'll scratch your eyeballs out . . . :>)

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RE: Suicide- - 10/6/2010 4:59:58 PM   
Aneirin


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That is 100% correct, no one chooses to be born, so why deny those that wish to leave life.

As to ptsd, that brings home a lot of the realities beyond what we are told it is normal to bear.

Any thought or feeling outside of what is considered normal always results in the label of mentally ill and all that label brings.


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RE: Suicide- - 10/6/2010 5:15:21 PM   
kdsub


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Rodger I hope you are not contemplating suicide!

Butch

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RE: Suicide- - 10/6/2010 5:20:32 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Rodger I hope you are not contemplating suicide!

Butch


No I am not.

The guy who jumped from the bridge- during the fall- what must go thru ones mind?

and if one changes their mind during the jump- it is too late.



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RE: Suicide- - 10/6/2010 8:31:06 PM   
NuevaVida


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I'm just really glad I didn't completely go through with it.  I'm not mentally ill.  But I was severely depressed at the time. Drowning in a black hole is a good way to put it. It's a miserable, horrible place.

My nephew has made two attempts.  He is in his 20s.  The odds of success are much higher with each attempt.


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RE: Suicide- - 10/7/2010 7:04:37 AM   
wandersalone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Actually post-humous MRIs show changes in the brain of suiciders that don't exist in normal brains. Studies of the severely depressed also show these changes. Suicide is a mental illness, where the brain does not recognize normal behavior or ways to address problems.


I haven't seen these studies but I would hazard a guess that  the brain changes may in fact be more related to the person possibly also experiencing clinical depression or a psychological condition that potentially made them more vulnerable and thus suicide seemed like a realistic option at the time.

I definitely don't see suicide in and of itself as being a mental illness what I believe is that it can often be the result of minimal support networks and reduced coping strategies and resilience

There are many cases each year of impulsive suicides, often amongst young males.... argument with their girlfriend/boyfriend/parent/mate, the GLBT group is also vulnerable, give them a few beers and a car and it is very easy to end up dead. 

I attempted a couple of times about twenty years ago, the result of chronic pain and depression. In my irrational mind the decision made total sense to me and I had no second thoughts.


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RE: Suicide- - 10/7/2010 9:04:15 AM   
daddysprop247


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TribeTziyon

A lot of times a choice in a moment is not the one that the person would normally make.

It's a choice you can't get back.


suicide is not often a spontaneous event. while the specific moment and method chosen may sometimes be impulsive, most who commit suicide have very likely contemplated it deeply many times, agonized over whether there was any other way, came up with a few different plans, or even made previous suicide attempts.

sometimes someone is unable to see a way out of a torturous but temporary situation...but sometimes their eyes are wide open to the potential and limitations of their lives, and they are making the most rational choice.

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RE: Suicide- - 10/7/2010 10:53:28 AM   
Lockit


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This is a topic that hits close to home and when I come back to it, it does effect my breathing. Which means I am sucking air, heart races a bit and I wonder do I say anything or not. Will I make sense if I do? Maybe I will just walk away, but how can I? I actually can't walk away because I live with the subject matter every day of my life.

I cannot impart all my feelings, beliefs and research in a post. I don't want to get into it all because I simply do not have time. Many think I should get that book written, but the support systems to do so are just not there and I am not walking into that dark pit alone. I've got the title and a few chapters... and then I walk because I must. To save me.

There are some very serious problems with the medical mental health systems. They can spend millions getting information out there and yet... you do everything they say to do and the system fails. I spent months doing all that was recommended, when it came time for the system to do their part... guess what? No options, no treatment, no help, then when we took the little that was available... they failed to do their job, to believe us and to help.

There was always something about Charlie that was different. He couldn't accept anything bad or that he saw as bad and went right into denial. At three years old he got a shot and was asked five minutes later how that shot felt. He completely denied having a shot. As he got older, the denial changed of course, but it was there. He grew into a fine young man, with lots of friends and making far too much money. In a bad relationship and now using the drugs typical for those in the work field, then drinking as most of them did, he spiraled.

We were doing all we could for a solid nine months when he would talk suicide. We had him put in a facility and they let him out. We were arranging an intervention with most ready to confront him and walk away if he did not get help. Within two weeks he tried three times to take his life. I had him put in the facility again and he sweet talked them but his girlfriend and I both told them how serious this was and they could check with the police because they had been looking for him one night because he was threatening to kill himself. They let him go and didn't put him in a facility to be monitored. I told the facility that if they let him out again and he hurt himself or another I would come after them legally, that we were two days from getting a court order to have him held and he had tried three times in two weeks. They let him out.

Six hours later he was hanging dead. They brought him back and now... he lives with me... a child in a man's body... a happy person now... but clueless. He doesn't remember what happened, but I do... most every single day.

You can bet I have strong opinions and have learned a great deal... we can have opinions and I wouldn't rob you of them if I could, but simply put... some of you really don't know what you are talking about. His choice without any medical process that actually works unless you have a lot of money and get lucky... became a lack of choices for a lot of people, including the tax payer that has to pay for his living now.

We need change and in a lot of area's. Better medical recourse, better ways to deal with these things and people who are feeling so trapped or addicted that they cannot find their way... I don't see them as victims... but some are. My son was not. He wasn't helped even when he wanted help... there was no help. He knew that. Then once a choice has been made we need better ways to take care of what is left if they do not die.

There is just far more to this than can be brought out here... should they have a choice... only if there are assurances made to make sure it is done right so there are no mistakes. But I would vote for better mental health and maybe those choices wouldn't be made so often.


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RE: Suicide- - 10/7/2010 4:16:11 PM   
MasterJohnSteed


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Here is My thing   Most people say suicide is the result of a mental illness, but would you not be willing to kill yourself if it meant that thousands more would live because of your death?   If you knew that killing yourself would take out your greatest enemy with you like say you are wounded too wounded to live, and you booby trap yourself with a grenade or bomb, and you took out the guy that wounded you?

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RE: Suicide- - 10/7/2010 5:07:47 PM   
pahunkboy


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Lockit,

I agree- the system is poor at best.

How deep - thanks for sharing.

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