Mind Control (Full Version)

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lovingpet -> Mind Control (10/1/2010 6:56:11 PM)

Not at all what it sounds like.  I had an interesting, though not all that unique or singular an experience last night.  I was sitting at my partner's feet discussing of all the most mundane things...finances.  We were discussing how things were progressing in finding work since my move and how to close up the gaps left by the time there was no income coming through the door.  Yeah, it wasn't the most sexy conversation ever.  But it was real and down to earth stuff.

Anyway, he wanted a two way conversation complete with suggestions and input and even correction on any particulars he was missing or were inaccurate.  This meant asserting myself into the conversation.  Traditionally, I'm not very good at that in general and get even more guarded with him (no reason, just doesn't feel the way I like things to feel with him).  Still this is what he wanted, so I had to gather myself enough to do it.  At the same time I am pulling my mindset up a peg in order to do as he asked, I also had to remain mindful of my manners, how I phrased things, tone of voice, etc.  I have no problem remaining respectful and deferential with him, but I did find it a significant balancing act.

I was curious what methods others use to maintain themselves while having to function in a slight opposing mindset.  He had his ways.  I am hoping to hear about others' ways.  Are there things your dominant partner can do to support your dynamic when you have to function in a more practical and/or dominant manner?  What things can your submissive partner do to help support the dynamic when you have to function in a more practical and/or submissive manner (think like at work dealing with a boss or demanding client)? 

lovingpet



littlewonder -> RE: Mind Control (10/1/2010 7:00:36 PM)

hhhmm...ya know maybe we're just looser with things, maybe I just don't really find this a problem..I don't know...but I can't really think of anything special we do. If my tone gets a little loud or assertive than it should be he just reminds me with a firm tone of voice and that's pretty much all it takes and I correct the problem.



lovingpet -> RE: Mind Control (10/1/2010 7:03:40 PM)

True for us too should it come to that, but that wasn't even necessary even as stumbling as it was.  It was just interesting be in both worlds, so to speak, but so grounded in each other, our relationship, and our dynamic. 

lovingpet



Kaliko -> RE: Mind Control (10/1/2010 7:26:38 PM)

What you said about pulling your mindset up a bit and having to keep your tone a certain way, with a certain amount of respect and deference...this is kind of what I do with everybody, all the time. (If my wonderful Sir is reading this right now, he is laughing and saying "What? You are a mouthy bitch!") But he knows, and people who know me know, that in general I am the appeaser during confrontation. Not that I give in on my point, though I am willing to if I am actually wrong. But rather, I am the one who molds my behavior to what the opposing party will best react to, whether it is my Dominant, my sister, my boss, or a clerk at the store.

So, when specifically with Sir, and having an opposing mindset, I take his cues very easily because I take everybody's cues very easily. But he's also very easy to work with in this way. He will "give me the floor", so to speak, sit back with arms comfortably crossed, his rapt attention on me, and let me roll. I can't remember a time when anything I've said (in a polite and respectful or fun-loving manner) has ever caused him to react in anger, and that is helpful, too - to trust that I really can say whatever I mean to say, even if it's in direct opposition to him, and he will treat it fairly.

What's interesting is that often, after we talk and after I have "proven my point", the light will shine down and I will see, days later, where he actually did know a little something more about me than I maybe gave him credit for. And I will always express this to him. I will always tell him when I was maybe a little too full of myself and my opinion. This is a giant mind-leap for me, more than having to keep myself in check when discussing things with him. Voluntarily surrendering my righteousness after a moment of clarity and appreciation, which he would never need know about if I didn't expose it to him - it's an amazing feeling for me to actually feel comfortable and trusting enough with him to do so.




lovingpet -> RE: Mind Control (10/1/2010 7:39:07 PM)

This sounds much like me/us as well.  I am more likely to express myself within the confines of what seems to be expected of me versus letting people be uncomfortable.  He is much more likely to have us go counter to expectations and he wants me to only concern myself with HIS opinion.  I do pick up on his cues easily...even to the point that it seems to me sometimes like he's just magical or something.  It's my default.

At the same time, I think his responses to things that I did have to bring up and even confront somewhat aggressively has engendered my trust because he has never, EVER come back at me with anger or rejection.  He will firmly explain and hold his position, but he simply has never made coming to him with something a scary thing.  I just don't like to do it.  It places me in a position I don't like.  I absolutely adore him in control.  He is still in control in those times, just like last night, but it just feels all wrong anyway.  That part of it is hard to explain and not at all my point for this post.  He had me at his feet the whole time.  He was looking down in order to look at me as I spoke and I, of course, had to look up.  It was little nuanced things like that, but it made a very "equal" conversation maintain the dynamic that feeds us.  It was particularly important last night because it also brings me comfort and, given the topic of conversation, that peace and safety was needed. 

I think this might be one of those posts that I can't get out of my head and in writing.  *sigh*  I am trying though. 

lovingpet



CaringandReal -> RE: Mind Control (10/1/2010 7:50:10 PM)

Too bad it's not at all what it sounds like. :( I like what it sounds like very much!

(Ok, c.a.r., focus.)

I've used self-deprecating humor in this sort of situation. It has the effect of pushing me down to where I'm comfortable, and, if it's pulled off right, it makes the dominant laugh. I like it when a dominant laughs at me. :) And after I demean myself in a humorous fashion (I very much mean the demeaning--but I still make it funny, if you know what I mean ;) ) that makes it "Ok" in my head to sound or act kind of... official, in the capacity you are describing. This is one of those things that gets easier to do the more you practice it--or are forced to practice it.

I don't know what your dominant can do to make this easier on you, as it's something I've dealt with on my own. I guess it just didn't occur to me to ask! It can help to remember that by giving him the level of answer he wants, you are obeying him much better than you would be if you gave in to your desire to relate on a different level. You clearly know that by what you posted, but it helps to remember it in the moment. One other thing helps me. I always try to remember, no matter how surprising or "against my nature" the command, that the only really essential thing to do is... whatever he or she wants in whatever way they want it done. All the rest, including my feelings about the act, is unimportant at that moment. And when I remember that, then no matter how contrary what I am actually doing is to what I think a slave should do, I feel the way I like to feel again.

Nice to see you back, btw!



lovingpet -> RE: Mind Control (10/1/2010 8:04:02 PM)

Thank you CaringandReal. It's good to be back!

I am not allowed ANY sort of self deprication or self demeaning, so unfortunately that wouldn't work for us.  I am, however, required to just simply obey.  Darn it if that doesn't seem so simple, but inside this little brain of mine goes on a lot of acrobatics to do so properly.  Keeping in mind that giving him the information and feedback he is asking for means I am in my place does help and you are right that I know this.  It was one thought I had to keep in the front of my mind.  He knows this is not easy for me, but he was pleased with the outcome and how I conducted myself.  Needless to say, that made me very happy.

lovingpet 



Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Mind Control (10/1/2010 8:12:32 PM)

Daddy and I don't bother with speaking protocols, I don't have to worry about tone, or deference to him when I speak, and good riddance cause I shoot strait from the hip and I speak my mind, I'd always and forever be in trouble if we had speaking protocols.
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet


I was curious what methods others use to maintain themselves while having to function in a slight opposing mindset.
lovingpet




lovingpet -> RE: Mind Control (10/1/2010 8:24:30 PM)

I can and am straightforward and there are no protocols aside from the fact that I am not to raise my voice, use foul language directed at him, etc. (ie:  common courtesy).  He expects me to speak my mind and tell him what I think, not try to censor myself.  I don't have to censor either.  There's never been a thought in my head that hasn't been met with understanding.  I cannot say we've seen eye to eye.  Still he wanted to know and I told him and we talked it out from there.  We were both firm and we both wound up giving a little, but we did not attack each other and we did not disrespect each other.  That's just how we do things and it works for us.

lovingpet 



leadership527 -> RE: Mind Control (10/1/2010 9:21:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
hhhmm...ya know maybe we're just looser with things, maybe I just don't really find this a problem..I don't know...but I can't really think of anything special we do. If my tone gets a little loud or assertive than it should be he just reminds me with a firm tone of voice and that's pretty much all it takes and I correct the problem.
It's kind of like this for us except I don't care about "tone". Carol and I just talk. Sometimes she's the expert in the conversation. Sometimes I need her input for other reasons. There's no special way we do this other than "talk".

In the end, it'll be me deciding whatever gets decided. That's all that matters between Carol and I.

You yourself know that just like with Carol and I, it was never a question "who was in control". Perhaps this is just yet another bit of "settling in" to a new and unfamiliar situation?



DesFIP -> RE: Mind Control (10/1/2010 9:28:10 PM)

I hope I'm always polite, except to idiots who really deserve otherwise of course. But I don't worry about my tone or phrasing or any such thing. He wants info out of me, that's what he'll get. If he wants me to have to worry about what and how I say anything, and I just won't talk. Because when you make communication too  difficult, I'm going to assume you really don't want any and I'll give you the silence you want.



Acer49 -> RE: Mind Control (10/2/2010 1:13:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Not at all what it sounds like.  I had an interesting, though not all that unique or singular an experience last night.  I was sitting at my partner's feet discussing of all the most mundane things...finances.  We were discussing how things were progressing in finding work since my move and how to close up the gaps left by the time there was no income coming through the door.  Yeah, it wasn't the most sexy conversation ever.  But it was real and down to earth stuff.

Anyway, he wanted a two way conversation complete with suggestions and input and even correction on any particulars he was missing or were inaccurate.  This meant asserting myself into the conversation.  Traditionally, I'm not very good at that in general and get even more guarded with him (no reason, just doesn't feel the way I like things to feel with him).  Still this is what he wanted, so I had to gather myself enough to do it.  At the same time I am pulling my mindset up a peg in order to do as he asked, I also had to remain mindful of my manners, how I phrased things, tone of voice, etc.  I have no problem remaining respectful and deferential with him, but I did find it a significant balancing act.

I was curious what methods others use to maintain themselves while having to function in a slight opposing mindset.  He had his ways.  I am hoping to hear about others' ways.  Are there things your dominant partner can do to support your dynamic when you have to function in a more practical and/or dominant manner?  What things can your submissive partner do to help support the dynamic when you have to function in a more practical and/or submissive manner (think like at work dealing with a boss or demanding client)? 

lovingpet



If I am understanding your question. I, being a dominant do not feel less because I ask my submissive her opinion on a matter that through life experience has garnered her my knowledge than myself. I do not see that a submissive who is able to supply that knowledge as someone who is crossing the line so to speak.



phoenixmoonn13 -> RE: Mind Control (10/2/2010 2:50:29 AM)

always when we talk i use protocal when we are alon to talk but when family are around then we dont. an if h ewants ot discuss somthiing he needs honest input maybe even to be critical then we do and because he has saked it of me then it is what he wishes so i have no [roblem here at all. jsut se eit as his order and wish it may help



Focus50 -> RE: Mind Control (10/2/2010 3:53:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Not at all what it sounds like.  I had an interesting, though not all that unique or singular an experience last night.  I was sitting at my partner's feet discussing of all the most mundane things...finances.  We were discussing how things were progressing in finding work since my move and how to close up the gaps left by the time there was no income coming through the door.  Yeah, it wasn't the most sexy conversation ever.  But it was real and down to earth stuff.

Anyway, he wanted a two way conversation complete with suggestions and input and even correction on any particulars he was missing or were inaccurate.  This meant asserting myself into the conversation.  Traditionally, I'm not very good at that in general and get even more guarded with him (no reason, just doesn't feel the way I like things to feel with him).  Still this is what he wanted, so I had to gather myself enough to do it.  At the same time I am pulling my mindset up a peg in order to do as he asked, I also had to remain mindful of my manners, how I phrased things, tone of voice, etc.  I have no problem remaining respectful and deferential with him, but I did find it a significant balancing act.

I was curious what methods others use to maintain themselves while having to function in a slight opposing mindset.  He had his ways.  I am hoping to hear about others' ways.  Are there things your dominant partner can do to support your dynamic when you have to function in a more practical and/or dominant manner?  What things can your submissive partner do to help support the dynamic when you have to function in a more practical and/or submissive manner (think like at work dealing with a boss or demanding client)? 


It's all about the *right* headspace...!

If I were having that particular r/l issues type convo with my girl, she would NOT be sitting at my feet. There's a time and place for D/s just as there is for us to be equal, mature adults.

For me, you're describing the latter....

Focus.



CaringandReal -> RE: Mind Control (10/2/2010 5:05:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Thank you CaringandReal. It's good to be back!

I am not allowed ANY sort of self deprication or self demeaning, so unfortunately that wouldn't work for us.  I am, however, required to just simply obey.  Darn it if that doesn't seem so simple, but inside this little brain of mine goes on a lot of acrobatics to do so properly.  Keeping in mind that giving him the information and feedback he is asking for means I am in my place does help and you are right that I know this.  It was one thought I had to keep in the front of my mind.  He knows this is not easy for me, but he was pleased with the outcome and how I conducted myself.  Needless to say, that made me very happy.

lovingpet 



You're quite welcome. :)

I hope you don't have to do this sort of thing too often. It sounds stressful. If this were my odious task (and oh yes, I also would find it unplesant and would cope but not relish it. Being required to correct one's dominant to his face is not easy!), I'd be tempted to try the "rip the bandage off as quick as possible" approach and tell him everything he could possibly want to know in one sitting, using the tone and content expected and then... hmm... promise him regular detailed email updates so we wouldn't have to expend precious time that could be channeled in more enjoyable pursuits with these little talks? ;) Well, it might work!



littlewonder -> RE: Mind Control (10/2/2010 7:00:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Not at all what it sounds like.  I had an interesting, though not all that unique or singular an experience last night.  I was sitting at my partner's feet discussing of all the most mundane things...finances.  We were discussing how things were progressing in finding work since my move and how to close up the gaps left by the time there was no income coming through the door.  Yeah, it wasn't the most sexy conversation ever.  But it was real and down to earth stuff.

Anyway, he wanted a two way conversation complete with suggestions and input and even correction on any particulars he was missing or were inaccurate.  This meant asserting myself into the conversation.  Traditionally, I'm not very good at that in general and get even more guarded with him (no reason, just doesn't feel the way I like things to feel with him).  Still this is what he wanted, so I had to gather myself enough to do it.  At the same time I am pulling my mindset up a peg in order to do as he asked, I also had to remain mindful of my manners, how I phrased things, tone of voice, etc.  I have no problem remaining respectful and deferential with him, but I did find it a significant balancing act.

I was curious what methods others use to maintain themselves while having to function in a slight opposing mindset.  He had his ways.  I am hoping to hear about others' ways.  Are there things your dominant partner can do to support your dynamic when you have to function in a more practical and/or dominant manner?  What things can your submissive partner do to help support the dynamic when you have to function in a more practical and/or submissive manner (think like at work dealing with a boss or demanding client)? 


It's all about the *right* headspace...!

If I were having that particular r/l issues type convo with my girl, she would NOT be sitting at my feet. There's a time and place for D/s just as there is for us to be equal, mature adults.

For me, you're describing the latter....

Focus.



I have to admit Focus, I'm kinda surprised by your answer.

For us the d/s is always present no matter what the conversation. I am always at his feet, no matter what we are speaking about. Now that does not mean he doesn't allow me to make a decision about something on my own and we don't discuss things out like two mature adults, but in the end he is allowing me that and if he wanted to change my decision he has that right.

There is never a moment in our lives where he is not the one with the power.




lovingpet -> RE: Mind Control (10/2/2010 10:36:57 AM)

There's a bit to respond to here, so I will try and make sure to cover everyone.

Leadership:  I know that he doesn't really care all that much about how I cough up the information he wants.  He just wants the information.  Sometimes he expects less of me than I do of myself.  Granted I could see it as not submitting to his standards, but as I have explained to him, I don't think it is a problem for someone to carry higher standards for themselves than their partner does.  He does the same thing and sometimes gets upset with himself when he hasn't quite met up with his own expectations even though I don't see what has happened as a problem.  It is partly a settling in thing, partly a basic personality thing, and also a long standing habit of standing down in conversations simply because what I had to say was adamantly not valued.  These are changes I could easily get used to in a lot of ways, but the process is a bit of a beast!  LOL

Des:  The situation I have found is the opposite of what you described.  He doesn't make communication difficult.  He wants more of it than I have come to be used to giving.  He's not scary to talk to.  It is more a me issue than anything about him.  One on one, I have to work very hard to put the words in my head into an order that makes sense when they come out of my mouth.  In a group situation, I will either barely say a word or be full of constant nervous chatter that goes nowhere.  I live in my own head for the most part.  I am not a social butterfly.  Add to that just not feeling congruent within our relationship in this particular type of conversation and I was a stuttering mess.  I got it out and we were able to make our game plan and are carrying it out now.  That equals to success, so I am not unhappy with myself at all.  This wasn't even about solving a communication problem we were having, but how to preserve mindsets.

Acer:  To him, nothing is submissive about him commanding me to do something, tell him something, etc.  If he is the one asking for it and I am the one doing as told, there is no conflict for him.  For him, it would be a disharmony to be in the position of having to take an order, but he handles it well, such as getting another appointment thrown on his schedule when he was getting ready to go home at the end of the day by his supervisor.  THAT makes him a little aggravated and when I get the phone call or he gets here, I can soothe that right out of him with a little extra subly attention.  [;)]

phoenixmoon:  That is pretty much the way things go for us, though there are just natural bits of behavior that we cannot turn on or off depending on who is around.  It is just an intrinsic part of how we relate to each other.  We do tone it WAY down in certain company, however.

Focus:  Interestingly, we have tried it both ways now and this actually worked better.  When he called a break to the dynamic to discuss certain matters, we both were decidedly cautious in the conversation.  This was because we didn't want something that happened outside of the relationship framework to affect how we related inside it.  It introduced fear into the conversation.  We got the job done, but was less productive.  This time we were relating from a frame of reference that was familiar and comfortable to us both.  To me, it was a security blanket when discussing what were otherwise very stressful and scary things.  While I agree that the exchange of information on serious life matters should be discussed maturely and with equal input, I don't think that precludes the normal dynamic of the relationship.  Littlewonder hit it on the head for me too.  He is always the final authority.  He makes the decisions and the plans.  I give him what he needs to do that well.  In so doing, however, I am acutely aware that does not give me power.

CaringandReal:   I did do my best to pull off the bandage quickly!  We have better things to do than to be bogged down with stuff like this.  I do send him letters weekly detailing  life stuff we need to address, relationship stuff, and fun/fantasy stuff when I've got it something simmering.  It does cut down on having to do this very often.  Doing it has only proven to strengthen our relationship, however, so it isn't as though it is pain without purpose.  I learn that he really is interested in what I have to say and he learns that he can trust me to support his efforts to properly guide our relationship.  That's not a bad payoff for a bit of squirming in my seat. 

lovingpet





leadership527 -> RE: Mind Control (10/2/2010 10:52:25 AM)

*chuckles* I certainly agree that carrying higher standards is not necessarily a problem. It sometimes is. There have been times when Carol's standards have interfered with my goals. Honestly LovingPet, when I read your post here I mostly just smiled. OK, my serious advice on this topic... patience... this sounds to me like settling in syndrome. :)



sexyred1 -> RE: Mind Control (10/2/2010 10:53:20 AM)

I am pretty straight forward and outspoken, never shy about communications.

I have never been in a situation where I had to watch my words or tone....

Oh wait...yes I was. And I left the situation because I don't care to walk on eggshells or be inhibited in any way, most of all my words and feelings.

As a communicative and very verbal adult, I believe I can speak my mind to anyone, especially a partner. If someone does not like that open exchange, they are not the right partner for me.



Kana -> RE: Mind Control (10/2/2010 1:37:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Not at all what it sounds like.  I had an interesting, though not all that unique or singular an experience last night.  I was sitting at my partner's feet discussing of all the most mundane things...finances.  We were discussing how things were progressing in finding work since my move and how to close up the gaps left by the time there was no income coming through the door.  Yeah, it wasn't the most sexy conversation ever.  But it was real and down to earth stuff.

Anyway, he wanted a two way conversation complete with suggestions and input and even correction on any particulars he was missing or were inaccurate.  This meant asserting myself into the conversation.  Traditionally, I'm not very good at that in general and get even more guarded with him (no reason, just doesn't feel the way I like things to feel with him).  Still this is what he wanted, so I had to gather myself enough to do it.  At the same time I am pulling my mindset up a peg in order to do as he asked, I also had to remain mindful of my manners, how I phrased things, tone of voice, etc.  I have no problem remaining respectful and deferential with him, but I did find it a significant balancing act.

I was curious what methods others use to maintain themselves while having to function in a slight opposing mindset.  He had his ways.  I am hoping to hear about others' ways.  Are there things your dominant partner can do to support your dynamic when you have to function in a more practical and/or dominant manner?  What things can your submissive partner do to help support the dynamic when you have to function in a more practical and/or submissive manner (think like at work dealing with a boss or demanding client)? 

lovingpet



I look at it like this:
It is her place to defer. It is mine to reign. There are also times I want input, for a variety of reasons. At those times, I ask for an opinion or input. Should she falter, I remind her that how she feels re the conversation is irrelevant, I have given a command (discuss this with me), now she is to obey. By acceding with my request she is practicing obedience and thus making me happy, which in turns leaves her happy as well.
Want an analogy?
Picture a minion giving a presentation to a high up boss. The employee may know their shit, but they are still expected to display the appropriate tone and respect while doing so, less discipline up to and possibly including termination occur.



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