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RE: Possible help for Autism and a few other probems - 9/18/2010 12:38:50 PM   
PeanutTigerinBox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

Both contain caution in it, thats all I pointed out. As there is no size fits all

Yeah..caution..but nothing more. Nothing saying one single thing against it.



so much about who actually read it, as both point out the biased view nm

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RE: Possible help for Autism and a few other probems - 9/18/2010 12:51:28 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

so much about who actually read it, as both point out the biased view nm

Move on...I told you I wasn't going to read the first one because it required an account goofball..as for the second... It's obvious you don't understand the context of what's being said but honestly your not worth my time.




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RE: Possible help for Autism and a few other probems - 9/18/2010 1:02:02 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

whilst it might make perfect sense to you there are also valid criticism about their value out there

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/590537?src=rss

http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=329

also in regards to

I'm not going to create an account to look at the one link but the next one..well maybe you should reread that a few times..It isn't saying what you think it is.


I've had a Medscape account for over a decade.  I found an article that at first seemed to support your position, but then fell apart as neuroscientists looked at the data.  Here's what's really interesting...they only got oxygen at 1.3 atm (30% more than normal; selected because that is what's allowed for home units).  That's nothing like you'd get for TBI, stroke, decompression sickness, or radiation injury.

The doctor who conducted it and 7 of 10 other authors get income from selling home units.  This is really frowned upon, and you can see that from the uproar about drug studies being funded by doctors who get paid to consult with the same companies.  And the worst thing about the study is that it wasn't placebo controlled.  Given that the scoring is all subjective (by the parents), it would be critical to have it placebo-controlled.

Here's some of the criticism of the study (posting the whole article would get me shot by the mods!)

However, since its appearance, the study has sparked debate and criticism in the child neurology community, with some experts expressing concerns about the science itself.

"Within a day of the paper appearing, "half a dozen critiques" went up on the Child-Neuro listserv, an online bulletin board frequented by child neurologists that is politically neutral and not funded by government or pharmaceutical companies, said Isabelle Rapin, MD, professor of neurology and child neurology at Albert Einstein College of Medicine, in New York. Many academicians have called into question some elements of the study, she said.

Of the study's 10 authors, 8, including Dr. Rossignol, derive revenue from hyperbaric treatment. Further, Dr. Rossignol and 2 of the other investigators have previously received research funding from the International Hyperbarics Association for an earlier study of hyperbaric treatment in autism.

Dr. Rapin criticized the research group for not including an outside expert to interpret the data and called the authors' link to hyperbaric-therapy units a conflict of interest.

"The study needs to be replicated by researchers who have no commercial interest in hyperbaric therapy," she said.

Although she does not rule out a role for environmental manipulation in ASD, Dr. Rapin stressed that it is not likely that there would be "a groundswell change in brain metabolism" using oxygen treatment. The theory behind oxygen therapy simply does not make sense in autism, explained Dr. Rapin, who has been in the field of child neurology for many years and has written books on the disorder.

"We now know that the majority of the children with autism have a genetic disorder of brain development, not a brain lesion like a stroke, where hyperbaric oxygen might have something to offer."

She added: "It strains credibility" that this therapy would be effective in children aged 6 or 10 years old, since 90% of the brain's anatomy is constructed well before that age."

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RE: Possible help for Autism and a few other probems - 9/18/2010 1:17:20 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

"We now know that the majority of the children with autism have a genetic disorder of brain development, not a brain lesion like a stroke, where hyperbaric oxygen might have something to offer."


Ya know this wasn't even meant to be a discussion..I didn't frame it that way..All I wanted to do was put the information out there in hopes that people who were interested in it would look into it for themselves. I realize that a lot of these medical issues may not have direct links to one another except that they may respond to oxygen therapy in a positive way. There's more than enough doctors out there that would tell you the same thing.

That's actually a good article but I think it's flawed because the tone of which it's delivered leaves little hope for further study..It's almost as if they've made their minds up already.

I'm aware that mild HBOT doesn't have the "Kick" that higher pressures would..I'm also aware that 100% oxygen is the way to go versus Mild HBOT..I'm also aware that as peenat's article suggested...You would most likely get the same benifits from an oxygen mask as you would a home HBOT unit...except the difference may be that your getting elevated purity levels of oxygen from a home tank..apply the oxygen to a home unit and you'll surpass a mask. There are studies from the UK as well as Russia and Italy that back up HBOT as effective treatments and as soon as the US get's off it's ass and get's it's crap together..I am sure we'll ALL see the benefits.

< Message edited by Icarys -- 9/18/2010 1:26:23 PM >


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RE: Possible help for Autism and a few other probems - 9/18/2010 1:24:23 PM   
PeanutTigerinBox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

so much about who actually read it, as both point out the biased view nm

Move on...I told you I wasn't going to read the first one because it required an account goofball..as for the second... It's obvious you don't understand the context of what's being said but honestly your not worth my time.





Wow, the great name trys to insult, once again...ain't it enough that your previous insult towards other frontline staff was already removed???

at least thorny got it and quite frankly if you would have googled it you would have gotten that article without their account as I don't have an account with them and was able to read it...so you better start again looking in the mirror when using your charming words as they suit you better than others.

In regards to me not understanding the context of what's being said...thats why my dissertation was about autism....as of course I have no idea...

Apart from that, thanks thorny for stating the facts clear at last for our oh-so-wise-Icarys.

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RE: Possible help for Autism and a few other probems - 9/18/2010 1:33:39 PM   
ModTwentyOne


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Let's keep the discussion civil please. When one turns away from discussion/debate and turns towards insults and namecalling, the discussion/debate is over. In that case, one's ideas would do well on their journal, where others cannot respond.





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RE: Possible help for Autism and a few other probems - 9/18/2010 1:36:08 PM   
PeanutTigerinBox


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Once again, thank you thorny, the mentioned article can be found when "Hyperbaric Therapy May Improve Autism Symptoms" is googled or yahooed (and then the link from medscape is being chosen. No account opening is required that way, to read the article).

< Message edited by PeanutTigerinBox -- 9/18/2010 1:37:48 PM >


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RE: Possible help for Autism and a few other probems - 9/18/2010 1:43:36 PM   
Icarys


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Nobody is telling me anything here that I'm not already aware of. No matter how many people say something is great there are going to be others that say it isn't. The problem with that is there is someone who's wrong...and it isn't me.

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RE: Possible help for Autism and a few other probems - 9/18/2010 9:11:17 PM   
wandersalone


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Icarys, is it possible that there is no either someone is right or wrong in this thread?  Surely this was about you giving a link to a treatment that you feel may have merit.  Some others disagree with you as is their right. 

Sometimes people are happy with the treatment options they have, sometimes people do not want or need to chase endless hopes, sometimes people are closed off to other alternate possibilities and sometimes people get tired of wanting so much for something to work only to be disappointed that they stop hoping and looking.  All of these choices are right for these people even if it isn't right for you.

The research doesn't resoundingly support the treatment however we all know that anecdotal evidence can still exist from people who believe it has worked for them.

Everyone is allowed to like or not like something, you seem to be taking the comments as a personal attack against you.  If you do buy the kit I sincerely hope that it helps, it is always exciting to be given other options.


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RE: Possible help for Autism and a few other probems - 9/19/2010 11:19:22 AM   
Icarys


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No, in this case, it isn't possible. I'm talking science while your talking personal choice.
Every single one of us except maybe people with heart problems (No hard evidence that it's harmful for them either as of yet) can benefit from more oxygen. How easy is that to figure out.

The science isn't anecdotal if you took the time to look it up yourself instead of taking what a few people list as links.

I could probably post endless amounts of links myself in an attempt to further debate but that isn't what this was about. I asked no questions to spark said debate. I posted in a sincere attempt to spark curiosity.

I didn't see any of this as a personal attack till she chose to say "Oh so wise Icarys"..What I did see was a bunch of idiots going on about something they know very little about firsthand.

One person said they did a dissertation of Autism..I think she's lying as I think a lot of people do in order to save face or "win an argument". I don't put that past the majority of people..here's no different.

End of story.


< Message edited by Icarys -- 9/19/2010 11:21:15 AM >


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RE: Possible help for Autism and a few other probems - 9/19/2010 2:54:24 PM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

1)No, in this case, it isn't possible. I'm talking science while your talking personal choice.
2)Every single one of us except maybe people with heart problems (No hard evidence that it's harmful for them either as of yet) can benefit from more oxygen. How easy is that to figure out.

3)The science isn't anecdotal if you took the time to look it up yourself instead of taking what a few people list as links.

I could probably post endless amounts of links myself in an attempt to further debate but that isn't what this was about. I asked no questions to spark said debate. I posted in a sincere attempt to spark curiosity.

I didn't see any of this as a personal attack till she chose to say "Oh so wise Icarys"..What I did see was a bunch of idiots going on about something they know very little about firsthand.

4)One person said they did a dissertation of Autism..I think she's lying as I think a lot of people do in order to save face or "win an argument". I don't put that past the majority of people..here's no different.

5)End of story.



1)thornhappy posted science, and you are arguing about it in an unpleasant manner.

2) One of the first things they do in cardiac protocol regardless of O2 saturation levels is put the person on oxygen. (just for your general information)

3)See science referred to in #1.

4)You called her a liar. Not very nice. I saw her referring to you as "Oh so wise Icarys" to be comic and not in a mean way.

5)Probably not.

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RE: Possible help for Autism and a few other probems - 9/19/2010 4:49:24 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

1)thornhappy posted science, and you are arguing about it in an unpleasant manner.

2) One of the first things they do in cardiac protocol regardless of O2 saturation levels is put the person on oxygen. (just for your general information)

3)See science referred to in #1.

4)You called her a liar. Not very nice. I saw her referring to you as "Oh so wise Icarys" to be comic and not in a mean way.

5)Probably not.

1a..She only posted part of it..The part which supported her part seemingly. Yet she didn't tell the rest.
Here's the link, oh unbiased one. Notice that the good Dr. has two such children.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/590537
2s..We are talking pressurized Oxygen, genius..In other words..HBOT ATA's somewhat above normal breathing pressures..There have been deaths because of it.
3s..See 1a
4h..If she's doing that she was for sure "Just joking"..Bullshit.
5o..As far as the science goes..it is the end of the story.


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RE: Possible help for Autism and a few other probems - 9/19/2010 6:30:03 PM   
Aneirin


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Icarys,

If I have something to offer others via a forum, I just post and run, that way people if they choose they can enquire further, their choice. If people decide it is not for them they can pass it by, but I do not if I can help it engage in the mind works of others, for I know there are some who will argue for the sake of arguing no matter if the article was of use to them or not.

I have found if someone hangs on their posting ready to counter any naysayer in the poster's response they can in fact degrade their original posting in how they approach the pooh pooh people.

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RE: Possible help for Autism and a few other probems - 9/19/2010 7:43:50 PM   
January


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quote:

I'm talking science....
Every single one of us ... can benefit from more oxygen. How easy is that to figure out.


"Science" isn't that simple. Neither is oxygen. There are plenty of examples where oxygen has dangerous medical side effects: high pressure oxygen therapy isn't a cure-all, Icarys. And it may not work for autism.

I'll give you one example. Premature babies who have extreme trouble breathing are given very high pressure oxygen via intubation. One of the possible consequences is blindness. (The oxygen somehow encourages fast growth of blood vessels in the newborn eye, which is destructive).

So rather than claim "science" is on your side, and react with hostility if there is a difference of opinion, you should calm down. Science isn't static--especially medical science. Doctors argue all the time. That's how progress is made.

January


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RE: Possible help for Autism and a few other probems - 9/19/2010 8:25:29 PM   
Icarys


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Step back a month or two will ya? Did you just find that on google too?

If we're making progress by arguing then we're getting somewhere here.

Again, because I didn't stipulate all the possible nono's in regards to oxygen..yadayada

Yes I know this...That's why it's not given to children anddddd given to anyone that they deem a risk but it has been done on thousands and thousands over the last 40 years. With much success...as in other countries around the world.

I'd be surprised if you or anyone else on this forum is going to tell me anything that I'm not aware of regarding this topic unless you've personally worked in that field and have seen the workings of one? That would probably be no.

If your just now googling to look cool on the subject..please put your makeup on later and pay attention to the road.


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