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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 9/16/2010 6:35:37 PM   
xkittenx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

May I point out that in traditional Jewish synagogues women and men are in separate areas as well.


Jewish women aren't making a fuss over it though.

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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 9/16/2010 6:37:55 PM   
DesFIP


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Of course, if you don't want to sit in a separate area you need only join a Conservative, Reform or Reconstructionist synagogue instead. Perhaps they need to form a new Islamic moderate sect?

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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 9/16/2010 6:47:19 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Perhaps they need to form a new Islamic moderate sect?






HALLELUJAH!!!!

You get the big Heretical AMEN!!! to that!

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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 9/16/2010 6:47:33 PM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

Should the police be party to maintaining this discriminatory practice?


If they are called in to arrest someone who is committing a crime, they should act impartially.

quote:

Isn't this similar to the black "lunch counter" sit-ins of the civil rights movement?


I believe this should be protected under the idea of separation of church and state. It's not the state's job to tell the church what its doctrine should or should not be.

quote:

Do the women have a point, or should they just shut-up, sit down, and let their betters do what's "best for them"?


Both the women and the men have a point. If Judaism can range from orthodox to reform, Islam should be able to do the same.



It is already happening, has been for sometime, change will come if people allow it to come.

Liberal Movements within Islam

I know it is there, that is why I will not condemn Islam, for I believe that if we largely of tolerant religions exercise tolerance with this new interpretation ( Islam being an offshoot of Christianity circa sixth century current era ), they might be able to make it into something more acceptable to themselves and the rest of us in this world.

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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 9/16/2010 7:43:13 PM   
Owner59


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One would think that with all the abuse women and youngsters endure in so many Mormon sects as well as the thousands and thousands and thousands of females and males who endured unspeakable,un-punished crimes at the hands of Catholics would have better things to do than pick apart Muslim costumes and traditions.

But alas.

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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 9/16/2010 8:19:03 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xkittenx

The state outlawed polygamy but ultimately it was up to the Mormons to decided whether or not to follow that law.

The LDS church chooses not to practice polygamy however there are various branches of Mormons who DO practice polygamy to this day.

And once again, the lunch counter is not a religious organization.


Ahh, the "public policy exception"!

Polygamy is currently illegal, and this directly conflicted with a religious practice.

Abortion is legal, and this directly conflicts with many religions beliefs.

Both are "public policy exceptions" to the wall between church and state, I think, as the overriding "public interest" is higher than the exercise of religious freedom.

I found some interesting stuff on this site: http://www.religioustolerance.org

1993: Text of the U.S. Supreme Court decision in the Hialeah case: Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc,. et al. v. City of Hialeah

Justice Kennedy delivered the opinion of the Court

   (a) Under the Free Exercise Clause, a law that burdens religious practice need not be justified by a compelling governmental interest if it is neutral and of general applicability. Employment Div., Dept. of Human Resources of Oregon v. Smith, 494 U. S. 872. However, where such a law is not neutral or not of general application, it must undergo the most rigorous of scrutiny: It must be justified by a compelling governmental interest and must be narrowly tailored to advance that interest. Neutrality and general applicability are interrelated, and failure to satisfy one requirement is a likely indication that the other has not been satisfied.


RELIGIOUS FREEDOM RESTORATION ACTS (RFRAs)

Overview:

During the late 1980's, a series of rulings by the US Supreme Court upheld the right of governments to restrict religious freedom, as long as the limitations applied equally to all faiths. A series of laws at the federal and state level were initiated, in an effort to limit such restrictions. They have all run into constitutional problems because they attempt to grant special religious freedoms to individuals and organizations that are not available to Agnostics, Atheists, and other secularists and their groups. The First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution requires that a wall of separation be maintained between church and state. Any law that gives special privileges to religious people and groups is clearly unconstitutional.

These laws remain immensely popular among the general public and religious institutions and will probably continue to be introduced, passed, signed into law, and eventually declared unconstitutional.

So, I guess I'm wondering if the overall treatment of women in the Muslim religion - but especially in the specific case that I started this thread with - could be classified as a "public policy exception" and legislated?

Firm




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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 9/17/2010 12:33:50 AM   
Vendaval


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Fast Reply -

As Anerin mentions, all 3 of the Abrhamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) have orthodox, moderate and reform groups. The women in this example fall into the reform category and would be best off starting another mosque where they can worship side by side with the men.

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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 9/17/2010 1:00:45 AM   
DomKen


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There are lots of different sects inside Islam and some do allow men and women to worship together.

For instance I'm pretty sure the Ismaili don't segregate their worship services.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 9/17/2010 1:01:31 AM >

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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 9/17/2010 7:00:20 AM   
Moonhead


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They have great dope as well...

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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 9/17/2010 7:41:52 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Why did the police ask women wanting equal rights to leave when sex discrimination is supposed to be illegal in the US? Shouldn't the men have been asked to leave instead? A foreign exchange student from Finland that was in on of my classes a few years ago said Americans have less freedom than citizens in his country. I believe him.


Sooooo are Muslim women allowed to pray with men in Finland?

Butch

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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 9/17/2010 8:30:03 AM   
Aylee


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You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.  ~ General Sir Charles James Napier (Govenor of India)

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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 12/8/2012 7:20:39 PM   
Jonc101


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Read about the lives of Afghan women:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/28/afghan-women-jailed-moral-crimes

FJ

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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 12/8/2012 7:24:33 PM   
Lucylastic


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Whats wrong, got a stick up your ass tonite??? or cant talk about anything else but your hatred of the Islamic faith, that you have to necro a two year old thread?
How sad


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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 12/8/2012 7:26:37 PM   
Jonc101


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Read the international media if you prefer up-to-date stats. It makes no difference how old the link is cause in a religion that has lasted since the 8th century A.D. nothing much has changed, or is likely to.

FJ

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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 12/8/2012 7:27:53 PM   
Lucylastic


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The THREAD is two years old, sheesh do you actually understand real english?


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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 12/8/2012 7:28:47 PM   
naughtynick81


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http://postimage.org/image/hocbf0ber/

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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 12/8/2012 7:30:19 PM   
Jonc101


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This link a 1 year old...so it desn't count anymore! Funny way of looking at an age old phenomenon:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069459/Alarming-number-honour-attacks-UK-police-reveal-thousands-carried-year.html

FJ

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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 12/8/2012 7:31:55 PM   
tazzygirl


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The THREAD is 2 years old... The Admins dont like anything beyond 6 months being pulled up again.

In other words, if someone has not posted on a thread in 6 months.. leave it the fuck alone and start a new one.

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RE: Islam, Women, and American Civil Rights - 12/8/2012 7:33:57 PM   
VideoAdminTheta


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Please refrain from bringing up and posting on threads that are older than three months old. You may start a new topic and link back to the older one.

The thread will now be locked.

Thank you

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