RE: Record U.S. Poverty Rates.

RE: Record U.S. Poverty Rates. (Full Version)

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DCWoody -> RE: Record U.S. Poverty Rates. (9/13/2010 9:15:16 AM)
"Business is incapable of doing anything for the common good without stimulus from Workers or the Govt." That's just as ridiculous as people who say that all government is bad, people who run businesses are just like everyone else.....a lot of them are nice & mean well.

DomYngBlk -> RE: Record U.S. Poverty Rates. (9/13/2010 9:24:48 AM)
Name one thing a Business..any business that was done for the Good of the Country..... Without being prodded by Gov't with regulation or lawsuit or by workers in a collective manner. Anyone? One thing

DCWoody -> RE: Record U.S. Poverty Rates. (9/13/2010 9:39:14 AM)
I assume you mean other than provide whatever service/employment that business provides. I also assume you'd exclude co-ops on the basis of 'workers in a collective manner' then. And all non-profits/charities/near charities don't count as businesses? And perhaps something like Orange RockCorps is a branding exercise? What about anonymous donations (which can't be for branding, if it's anonymous)?

DomYngBlk -> RE: Record U.S. Poverty Rates. (9/13/2010 12:30:24 PM)
What anonymous donations? if they are anonymous you can't tell who they are FROM!!!! non profits are not capitalist by definition...are they? Companies provide employment to fatten their wallets....If they are were patriots they'd make sure all jobs stayed in the Country. But....alas..... Co-ops.........help me out. Don't see your point. Assuming OrangeRock Corps is non profit?

DCWoody -> RE: Record U.S. Poverty Rates. (9/13/2010 12:56:04 PM)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockcorps Co-op is a brand over here, a series of companies (most notably a supermarket) owned by the employees. It's a good example of a benevolent company. My point was that if I bring up any example of a company doing good you're going to say it's just doing it for good publicity, and if I mention anything anonymous, you're going to claim....in fact you HAVE claimed that anonymous donations don't come from business (millionaires just get their money from digging up treasure). Alternatively, there are a fair few business owners on collarchat you could ask.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Record U.S. Poverty Rates. (9/13/2010 1:25:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DCWoody "Business is incapable of doing anything for the common good without stimulus from Workers or the Govt." That's just as ridiculous as people who say that all government is bad, people who run businesses are just like everyone else.....a lot of them are nice & mean well. "In their influential 2007 paper, "Inequality and Institutions in 20th Century America," Levy and Temlin regard unions not merely as organizations that struck wage bargains for a specific number of workers but rather as institutions that, before the Great Divergence, played a significant role in the workings of government. "If our interpretation is correct," they wrote, "no rebalancing of the labor force can restore a more equal distribution of productivity gains without government intervention and changes in private sector behavior."" http://www.slate.com/id/2266025/

DomYngBlk -> RE: Record U.S. Poverty Rates. (9/13/2010 1:54:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DCWoody http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockcorps Co-op is a brand over here, a series of companies (most notably a supermarket) owned by the employees. It's a good example of a benevolent company. My point was that if I bring up any example of a company doing good you're going to say it's just doing it for good publicity, and if I mention anything anonymous, you're going to claim....in fact you HAVE claimed that anonymous donations don't come from business (millionaires just get their money from digging up treasure). Alternatively, there are a fair few business owners on collarchat you could ask. Even if owned by employees do they do anything that is in the best interest of the country or town or village over the interests of the company? There are plenty of employee owned businesses here that put the dick to workers all the time in the name of "keeping" other jobs. They don't necessarily care about lowering profit margins in the name of helping out all their workers..... Fuck me! That could be anyone giving that money for any reason? You actually think Gates and Buffet are offering up 1/2 of their combined fortunes for the betterment of mankind? Take a look at our tax laws...then talk to me about it. Great that Gates wants to do it but would have been a lot better if he'd have kept all programming here in the US and would hire more US Engineering grads than H1's. So still waiting on one example.

DCWoody -> RE: Record U.S. Poverty Rates. (9/13/2010 2:47:38 PM)
Balls to ya, you've already objected to all anonymous examples on the grounds that they're anonymous, and all non-anonymous for being selfish.

samboct -> RE: Record U.S. Poverty Rates. (9/13/2010 3:47:29 PM)
DomYngBlk I can give you a few examples from the aviation industry- it's one I know well. Prior to WWII, Boeing developed what would become the B-17 after NOT being awarded the major contract (which went to the B-18- a turkey of an airplane.) because the management of the company was convinced that when war broke out, the airplane was going to be desperately needed. Boeing was eventually rewarded with a contract for a few airplanes (around a dozen)- at a LOSS- which they still took. Actually, I think even the first hundred or so airplanes were cut to the bone, and Boeing wasn't making any money. This was compared to Curtiss who was selling lousy fighter planes and making a good buck. Arguably a gamble for Boeing, and one which eventually paid off, but the smart move was what GE did- don't set up manufacturing of turbo superchargers- a critical war component, till war actually broke out and there were firm contracts in hand. Of course, this meant that our "front line" aircraft such as P-40s, P-38, and P-39s were without these critical components and our pilots were shot out of the skies- but hey- GE has to make a buck- right? But the best example I can come up with is DeHavilland. Back in the 50s, DeHavilland developed the first jetliner, the Comet. Beautiful airplane, faster than anything else and in demand- until they unexpectedly began raining down pieces out of the skies. Turns out that we didn't understand metal fatigue well and the pressurization/depressurization of the cabin weakened the fuselage near the windows and it cracked. DeHavilland published its research! The company said that it was too important to keep this information for competitive advantage. A few years later, Boeing took a tanker design for the airforce and turned it into a larger and more economical airliner known as the 707- and DeHavilland was history. Needless to say, Boeings airplanes incorporated fixes based on DeHavilland's findings. So how's that for an example of a large corporation doing the right thing- and going bankrupt because of it? But you're right- those types of examples are hard to come by.... Sam

pahunkboy -> RE: Record U.S. Poverty Rates. (9/13/2010 4:40:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DCWoody quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: DCWoody Ah, thought you were slating free trade, rather than a specific (IYO bad) treaty using the label as cover, my bad. D.C. that's part of the problem right from the start of it. It meets all five criteria of a "Treaty" according to State Dept. rules which requires a two thirds vote in the Senate! Yet, they called it an "agreement" to get it passed because they knew it couldn't get 67 votes in the Senate! But if you look at the face of it, it is in fact a "Treaty." Eh, I don't know much about it (although I recall hearing some Candians worried that american investors were gonna use tricky shit to purchase their groundwater), but I've always thought of it as a treaty. Didn't they do the same with Vietnam, declare it Police Assistance or something to avoid the war requirements? And recently there's been 'unlawful combatants' to avoid Geneva...mebe ya could get through some sort of amendment to stop them doing that sorta shit, Supreme Court could check it somehow? I dunno......anyways....Lucys assertion that it was signed before Clinton, does seem pretty damn bulletproof. Unless she's making shit up....that'd be like blaming Lisbon on Cameron. Actually.....yeah, I googled it, it was the work of, on the american side, Bush I, so your partisan shit fails in this case.... I did not sign that treaty. Corporations live forever- - humans do not.

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