HOISTS... (Full Version)

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DommeKeliDallas -> HOISTS... (9/2/2010 8:19:14 AM)

If you don't want to tear up your condo, what is the best way to hoist or suspend someone?
Thanks



mnottertail -> RE: HOISTS... (9/2/2010 8:20:03 AM)

build a frame.



DesFIP -> RE: HOISTS... (9/2/2010 8:23:18 AM)

This is not a do it yourself project to be learned from a book. Go take a workshop, meet suspension riggers and get their expert advice.

Remember most of all that there is a huge difference between static load and dynamic load.



KevinSWM -> RE: HOISTS... (9/2/2010 10:04:40 AM)

I've been planning to re-enforce some of the beams in my home for this purpose. I'm not sure how much of a hassle that's going to be or if it's even necessary.
Like mnottertail said, a frame might be a better option. But then you've got a big thing in your room taking up space when your not using it. Not to mention issues when your vanilla family comes over.
I'd like to see more discussion on this.



DarkSteven -> RE: HOISTS... (9/2/2010 1:49:59 PM)

Go all the way. Rent a crane. [8D]



Jeffff -> RE: HOISTS... (9/2/2010 2:11:22 PM)

Not very romantic, but...........

http://www.buy.com/prod/new-2-ton-engine-hoist-cherry-picker-ship-crane-folding-lift/q/listingid/86177831/loc/66357/215888620.html



PeonForHer -> RE: HOISTS... (9/2/2010 2:28:15 PM)

quote:

Not to mention issues when your vanilla family comes over.


If it's a static hook hanging from the ceiling, she could always say it's for a punchbag. Odd, but not quite as awkward as the truth.



DesFIP -> RE: HOISTS... (9/2/2010 7:30:46 PM)

A hook screwed into a beam won't support suspension. It will pull out. That's assuming your ceiling has real beams and not just two by fours. And people tied up being hit move a lot, they wiggle and jump and so on multiplying their weight several times. So if you're planning for a two hundred pound sub, you need to figure on supporting about eight hundred pounds instead.



KevinSWM -> RE: HOISTS... (9/2/2010 8:40:54 PM)

I have to agree with Des. In fact I'd make sure your rig supports 1000lbs just to be on the safe side. I'm thinking 4x4 beams minimum. With ring bolts that go completely through the beams with a lock nut on the other end. Perhaps a large washer or metal plate to prevent the nut from sinking into the wood.
I'm months away from doing any of this so I'll have to do some homework and see what the load capacity's of all the hardware is.
The real trick will be concealing all this. I'd like to have it be part of the ceiling/walls but maybe I can make it look like a decorative frame. Like put some nice paneling over it or something and the rings could be hidden somehow (or used to hang plants or something hehe).




Alwayswins -> RE: HOISTS... (9/6/2010 11:00:15 PM)

All I did was purchase a heavy duty a frame engine hoist. Will fit over a car much more romantic then a normal moving hoist and is capable of two ton



ResidentSadist -> RE: HOISTS... (9/6/2010 11:10:07 PM)

Tap into the header over a doorway with heavy duty hooks.  Very sturdy.  You can keep the hoist in storage when not in use.  



weaselwelder -> RE: HOISTS... (9/7/2010 2:00:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KevinSWM

I'm thinking 4x4 beams minimum.

Just a heads up for people who don't realize this: most if not all 4X4 lumber found in US home improvement stores is pressure treated. NEVER use pressure treated lumber indoors or for any restraint system.



allthatjaz -> RE: HOISTS... (9/7/2010 3:14:16 AM)

I was lucky, I had a concrete cieling [:D]



DesFIP -> RE: HOISTS... (9/7/2010 4:42:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: weaselwelder

Just a heads up for people who don't realize this: most if not all 4X4 lumber found in US home improvement stores is pressure treated. NEVER use pressure treated lumber indoors or for any restraint system.



Don't buy lumber at a box store. It's usually warped. Go to a lumberyard. Where you can get 4 x 4s that aren't ACQ.



mnottertail -> RE: HOISTS... (9/7/2010 7:25:19 AM)

http://www.diynetwork.com/how-to/how-to-install-a-therapeutic-swing/index.html

You can do this without all the hole cutting, please note the joist is crippled, that is, it is sandwiched to be some 6" across.  The dynamic load of a thrashing woman at a hanging weight of 180 is gonna run upwards to 500 pounds.   Note also that the eyebolt has to be closed, if you cant find eyebolts that are closed (like a ring) then get it welded shut,
http://www.jwwinco.com/products/section11/gn581/


and you want to have some heavy beef on the joists:

http://www.abe.psu.edu/extension/factsheets/h/H20.pdf 

A frame of 4x4s with (even in bamboo which is sexy) could be designed for quick set up and tear down.  Schedule 80 PVC in a 4" would probably be ok as well. 

Read and engineer for 2x at least  (read the packages) I am thinking a 5/8" closed eyebolt should be enough, but it might not hurt to have a couple in there.



KevinSWM -> RE: HOISTS... (9/7/2010 10:11:51 AM)

Very good info. I'm liking this thread!
What makes pressure treated wood bad? I need some education in this area.

mnottertail, that first link is basically what I had in mind.
I wonder if the 2x4's making up that beam would be good enough. You have to figure the weight is not always going to be downward.
That same design with a better beam I think would be perfect.




DesFIP -> RE: HOISTS... (9/7/2010 10:32:20 AM)

Well, it's no longer made with arsenic, which is a step up. But it has chemicals injected into it to prevent it rotting when in contact with the ground and outside moisture. However the chemicals will offgas and you don't want to breathe them. Obviously if you live in a state where you can still buy railroad ties, don't use them either. Same problems. There's a lot more air outside than in, with modern houses being sealed so tight, you could poison yourself quickly using these things.

Honestly folks, a suspension frame designed for this is best, they are also designed to be knock down easily. An engine hoist can only be used for someone lying parallel to the ground and when they swing from their movements, they could hit their head on the thing. http://www.tetruss.com/



KevinSWM -> RE: HOISTS... (9/7/2010 11:58:53 AM)

Oh wow! I had no idea. Thanks for the info. That's exactly what I would have bought too, thinking it would be stronger!


Those frames look pretty good but I have two issues. One, I want multiple mounting points and not necessary just in one room of my home. Two, I'm somewhat spontaneous and having to pull out and setup a frame might spoil the mood if things were unplanned.

btw, I'm not suggesting rope-suspension should ever be a quick, spontaneous thing. That's something that does and should take some time to do correctly.
I just like to slap suspension cuffs on someone and attach them to the ceiling or whatever is available.





DesFIP -> RE: HOISTS... (9/7/2010 2:33:42 PM)

I'm not an expert in this. There's a suspension/rigger group on fetlife where you can gather lots of information.

Better yet, ask around in your local community to find out who is the best rigger and have him teach you. Or go to a workshop. Shibaricon next year would give you more info than you can handle.

More than just how not to drop them is how to attach them. Do it wrong and they have permanent nerve damage. This really isn't something you learn on your own. And you need to know how to get them down without harm if an emergency occurs.



KevinSWM -> RE: HOISTS... (9/7/2010 7:39:33 PM)

I use panic snaps so if someone needs to be freed it can be done in a matter of seconds.
And I agree there is a lot to learn. That's why I'm here, and fetlife, and various local events. I spent most of Fetish Circuit watching Scott work his rope magic. And at FetCon I hung around Lew and the asian guy who were both excellent as well. There is always more to learn and I am a sponge.



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