Seeking advice.....

Seeking advice..... (Full Version)

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DaddysInkedSlut -> Seeking advice..... (8/31/2010 1:56:05 PM)
I need some advice, although it is not for me personally but for my best friend. This is the situation. His grandfather is very ill and he is taking care of him. His aunt, has power of attorney over his grandfather. She is doing things without her father’s knowledge and or consent. Today, my friend went out into his grandfather’s garage and was going to surprise his grandfather and clean up his motorcycle, bring him out and start it up. His grandfather is an old school biker and has always ridden. His bike was gone. He called everyone and finally his aunt tells him she sold it a couple of weeks ago. His grandfather became emotional and began to cry. His aunt has made statements that she wants to put his grandfather in a home, which my friend is adamantly against. And yes he is willing to take care of him. His aunt has gone on to state that if/when he is put into a home she is selling his house. To make matters worse today they discovered the lockbox that his grandfather kept all of his important paperwork in is missing from the house. My friend is at a total loss as to how he should / can handle this. He doesn’t want to create a rift in his family but he wants to protect his grandfather and his best interest. His grandfather taught him to be a man, taught him everything, his feels so helpless right now. Any advice on how to handle his aunt selling his grandfather's things or what he should do to protect his grandfather at this point because honestly I am a total loss?

tazzygirl -> RE: Seeking advice..... (8/31/2010 2:05:15 PM)
To be honest, the grandfather trusted the aunt enough to give her power of attorney. Short of a court battle, that im not sure your friend will win, i dont see much he can do legally.

SubPet715 -> RE: Seeking advice..... (8/31/2010 2:09:04 PM)
This is just the sort of thing that causes a rift, it almost always and certainly will. My friend is going through something similar, no one did anything for fear of causing a rift and a few months later they put her aunt in a home and misappropriated her funds. Action needs to be taken place at the start before you find yourself fighting with your back against the wall, because in all the time you are sitting around and thinking of the best approach they are going around doing as they please with impunity. Short answer is to tell your friend to make their presence known, take a stand let it be known by all that you are in charge, you have the best interest of this grandparent in mind and that you are going to follow through with your words. Otherwise they put them in a nursing home to shut them up, which I have seen happen 2 times now and each time something could have been done but no one was assertive enough. Your friend sounds like they have a good heart, I sure hope things work in their favor.

poise -> RE: Seeking advice..... (8/31/2010 2:10:04 PM)
I would suggest the grandfather retract the POA that was once given to the aunt and have him designate someone else who really has his best interest at heart. If he became emotional over the motorcycle, it sounds as though he still has the function of his emotions and his mind. As Subpet said...its best to deal with it now, before it irreparable.

Lockit -> RE: Seeking advice..... (8/31/2010 2:28:57 PM)
My mother was kept from me for the most part by my brother and sister and because my brother was in charge, what he said was what happened. I was allowed to see her for a short time when things first happened. She had a mild stroke and the medication made her bleed and they did surgery. She needed total care and they acted as if she wasn't there, but she was. I could reach her, she knew all I said and would respond or talk to me. I went there one day and she said; "please help me, he's taking everything." These people were taking all her things for themselves, going through it right in front of her and talking about it all in front of her. I went to the next room and told them that if they had to do this, not to do this in front of her, she understood and they were upsetting her. They laughed and said; she doesn't know anything and even if she did, she wouldn't understand. She understood very well! I couldn't afford a battle and was in no position to fight them having my own situation in life. They divided it all up, got new cars, added on to their house and all sorts of things and then handed my mom to a woman who didn't care about her and ripped off the rest of her money, while trying to buy a house and car with my mom's credit. I didn't know any of this because after I stood up for her that day, I was no longer allowed anywhere close to her or the situation until a day or so before she died, penniless. Today I would get a lawyer and fight it. Win or lose, you tried. It wouldn't have made a difference in my mom's situation in the long run, but she sure wouldn't have been missing me and reaching out to beg for help and the torment that brought on. Hell, had I been in charge I could have used the money to care for her and given her a very loving and stable eight years. Prove she is misusing the money and you might have a case.

Twoshoes -> RE: Seeking advice..... (8/31/2010 2:32:37 PM)
This is why a will should read: 1. Get your own fucking stuff. 2. Donatating everything to charity. 3. If this upsets you, refer to 1.

HisSub1213 -> RE: Seeking advice..... (8/31/2010 2:33:18 PM)
A Power of Attorney should only be in force should the grandfather be incapacitated. This is the wording We use for a Durable Power of Attorney and it's pretty standard language: This Power of Attorney shall become effective in the event I become disabled or incompetent. Disability shall include the inability to manage my property and affairs effectively for reasons such as mental illness, mental deficiency, physical illness or disability, advanced age, chronic use of drugs, chronic intoxication, confinement, detention by a foreign power or disappearance. Disability must be evidenced by the written statement of a qualified attending physician or by another competent person with knowledge of any confinement, detention or disappearance. Incompetence may be established by a finding of a court having proper jurisdiction. I would recommend immediately withdrawing the POA and putting someone in charge that can be trusted. Second thing I'd do is speak to an attorney about possibly filing charges against the aunt. If this guy isn't incapaciated she has stolen from him. Also, in some jurisdictions, in order to be valid, a POA must be recorded somewhere, ie. with the Clerk of the Court, or the Auditor's office, somewhere. Just some thoughts

DaddysInkedSlut -> RE: Seeking advice..... (8/31/2010 2:43:59 PM)
I suggested his grandfather retract the POA but he doesnt now if he can since his health has declined so drastically in the past several weeks. I told him it may come down to a judge deciding which can be messy for the family but if it is what is best for his grandfather and a battle he is prepared to take on I would support him how ever I could. His grandfather has a will but it is in the lockbox that has disappeared although it was written with the assistance of an attorney so I am sure they have a copy. I will pass along the other advice given to my friend. All he wants is for the reamaining time his grandfather has to be in a comfortable, stable, and loving environment in the home he loves and amond the people and things he loves. Thank you all so much.

ResidentSadist -> RE: Seeking advice..... (8/31/2010 2:54:30 PM)
shovel bag of lye vulture poison ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My measure is whether or not the material things people are fighting over are worth killing for. If so, see above. If not, sometimes you just have to let it go... as much as I hate vultures.

KMsAngel -> RE: Seeking advice..... (8/31/2010 3:16:14 PM)
i'm not sure if they do guardian ship boards in the states, but if so, i would look into it immediately. over here, a guardianship board can authorise a family member to have guardianship over a person. however, capacity to consent is almost always a condition in either POA or Guardianship decisions. re an enduring power of attorney, once mental capacity is gone, it's often too late to make changes - get a dr involved asap - and document EVERYTHING you KNOW for fact, not just hearsay

SeanPony -> RE: Seeking advice..... (8/31/2010 4:36:49 PM)
Sell that aunt on craigslist and call it even :)

barelynangel -> RE: Seeking advice..... (8/31/2010 5:41:34 PM)
Well if your grandfather is competent (just because someone is utilizing the POA, doesn't necessarily mean that he is not competent to understand or make decisions as to who he wants caring for him), then he can redo his POA to make it a JOINT POA or change who has POA all around, and word it so that neither party can make a decision without the consent of the other and as long as your grandfather is competent, she really should be discussing what she is selling off at least so he KNOWS. If you are this concerned about him and believe what she is doing is in bad faith, then you really should speak up and 1) discuss what is going on with your grandfather first, while me may be sad that his motorcycle is gone, he may have spoken with her about it and agreed. All in all, if he is concerned -- the next thing he should do is document everything he sees happening. Take it to his other children, explain that you are willing to take care of him and see what they say. They may support him or at least demand an audit of your grandfathers assets including that which shows what she is doing with the money she got for the bike etc. They may also take a greater interest if they believe she isn't being open as to what she is doing. Speak of his concern and stress his willingness to take over his care but be SURE that is what he wants to do because it will be a responsibility he is able to just shrug and say not interested in doing when the going gets tough. Be prepared that this aunt may be alienated and not want anymore to do with it - since "he thinks he can do better" concept. Caring for the elderly is never easy and maybe his aunt is making these decisions in good faith or maybe she doesn't realize his willingness to take on the responsibility. There are many different ways of approaching this. angel

DaddysInkedSlut -> RE: Seeking advice..... (8/31/2010 6:07:10 PM)
Thank you angel, I will pass on what everyone has said to my friend tomorrow when I speak to him.

DesFIP -> RE: Seeking advice..... (9/2/2010 11:02:56 AM)
If the grandfather is still compos mentis, he can revoke that power of attorney and choose someone else. At which time, if the aunt does not return all the documents, legal action ie charges of elder abuse can be taken. However, I see nothing wrong with what she's done. It's obvious the man will never ride again. Maintaining a home and caregivers round the clock is expensive. Selling the motorcycle to help pay for his care is more than acceptable. Documents should be placed under lock and key to prevent unscrupulous aides from stealing them and coercing the grandfather into signing over the deed to the house. I'm assuming your friend is working which means the grandfather is unattended ten hours a day minimum. Should he continue going downhill, that won't be acceptable. At which point it's time to hire caregivers or place him in a safe facility. If he suffers from any dementia, then having a caregiver such as your friend is not acceptable. Because he could light the house on fire while your friend is sleeping. Safe facilities have guards on all doors so dementia patients can't wander out and become lost. Unless there is any proof that the monies aren't going towards his care, he needs to start working with his aunt. Which includes asking her what would make her decide he would be better off in an independent facility, how to address her concerns about her father's safety while he's in residence as caregiver and so on. Including finding substitute caregivers while he's out. Because caregivers need respite. And your friend, although loving, hasn't thought any of this through. Instead he/she has chosen not to talk to the aunt but to needlessly upset the grandfather by telling him that a bike he will never be able to ride again was sold which without his/her interference the man would never have known up and not been deliberately disturbed.

pahunkboy -> RE: Seeking advice..... (9/2/2010 11:12:11 AM)
Ok- enough. A home will cost min $4800. Medicare will not pay for that- when one owns a house- and even if they do sale with in the last 2 years- maybe 3 would be subject to the govt taking that money. if a person pulls funny stuff- and the state is expected to pay and the state finds out - it is not good. It could be worth a call to your areas - dept of aging. elder abuse- would be a close term for what this is.

juliaoceania -> RE: Seeking advice..... (9/2/2010 11:14:00 AM)
fr I can't give advice, but I just wanted to say, I feel for your friend... It is a tough position to be in when you think someone you love and who is helpless is being victimized.

pahunkboy -> RE: Seeking advice..... (9/2/2010 11:26:30 AM)
The comment on dementia, it is true that there is a point where a home is best. As they have experience with that. But- that may take years. Still-- medicare has very strict rules over assets. In other words- one is supposed to use up all assets before- using medicare funds. I have tho seen a family where the daughter was giving a life interest in the house. Meaning- she could live there- but could never sell it- and in the end THOSE funds would go to Medicare. On the one hand - the daughter felt screwed, on the other hand- it worked out better then some others had been thru.

LadyPact -> RE: Seeking advice..... (9/2/2010 11:59:56 AM)
From the sound of the thread, the Aunt may be very well within her authority of using the POA as she is doing. If his condition has deteriorated so badly over the last few weeks that an assisted living situation is having to be considered, it may simply be a case of attempting to acquire the funds to pay for it. I'm not seeing anything that says the money has been misappropriated and may very well be waiting in an account exactly for that purpose. OP, your friend may not have the entire picture of what is going on. Not with his Grandfather's health or with his financial situation. It sounds like this happened when he visited the man, and hasn't been there for the day in, day out of what is going on. If the Grandfather's health has seriously deteriorated recently, the Aunt is probably dealing with his papers just in case she needs to get them in order. She may be using his documentation/records to see what options are available. For example, if he's a veteran and may be needing assisted living soon, she's got avenues, but she has to have the documentation on hand to be able to deal with that. Your friend may have been upset (Grandfather, too) about the sale of the motorcycle. That was probably something that there are longtime memories associated with for both of them and reminds your friend (and his Grandfather) of happier times from being younger. Part of the being upset might have a lot to do with that as this family comes to accept that those days are gone and time may be rather short. The Aunt may be caught up a bit in that, too. It's not an easy thing to look at your parent and know that you may have to say good-bye to them very soon. No financial or legal advice here. What I do have as a suggestion is that, whatever he decides to do, that in that decision, he keep in mind the difficulties, not just for himself, but everyone. I'm betting that, more than the bike, this gentleman would not want to see the ties in his family disappearing.

pahunkboy -> RE: Seeking advice..... (9/2/2010 12:17:55 PM)
I would be curious on the bike sale- if it was a fire sale price- or with in reason. It is possible the daughter has greater knowledge. With my own mom and so forth- I stay out of it. I very much stay out of it. ...and at times- I don't know if that will be enough.

DaddysInkedSlut -> RE: Seeking advice..... (9/2/2010 3:28:29 PM)
My friend has been the primary care provider for his grandfather for several mths now. He owns his own tattoo shop so he can and does schedule his appointments around when his nurse is there. He has also taken on another artist that is brining in additional income. The motorcycle isn't the first or only thing to go missing in the past few weeks but it the most obvious and most hurtful to his grandfather. My friend is paying for his grandfather's nurse out of his pocket. His grandfather is not suffering from demintia of any kind which we are all greatful for. He has made it known to the entire family for several yrs, even I have heard him say he wants to die in his home. Where he raised his family, and has his memories not among strangers. (yes that is writting) His grandfather raised him, so this is very hard for him.

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