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RE: Naturalization - 8/8/2010 11:12:49 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

But, julia, the argument can be made that those who come here and join the military for reasons of citizenship do have a stake in our society. Many have families. They develop ties. Lord knows the indoctrination of the different branches is all about country.


Hmmm... are married people allowed to get immigration status for themselves and their loved ones, or is it only single people? I thought I heard it was only single people... as such they may never have lived here....



< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 8/8/2010 11:13:17 PM >

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(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Naturalization - 8/8/2010 11:15:06 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Maybe im wrong, but wouldnt they have to come here to enlist and serve? Dont single men get married? And to be honest with you, if a man or woman decides to put his or her life on the line in defense of this country, i believe he or she should be allowed citizenship, along with his wife or her husband and their children.

Edited to make the post more gender appropriate

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 8/8/2010 11:16:44 PM >

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RE: Naturalization - 8/8/2010 11:27:25 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Here is the thing, why should foriegners serve in our military when there are so many patriots like you willing to do so? Here are all these people posting on this thread how "grateful" they are to be an "American"... have they served? Outsourcing risks to others is what we do best, and then we bitch about it. For example, how many Americans want to work in the fields with pesticides, but they are going to bitch when a Mexican does that work for them

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Naturalization - 8/8/2010 11:34:58 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I grew up working in tobacco fields in NC for school clothes money. The military pay back then didnt pay a whole lot. So, please, when you speak of not wanting to work in fields, look elsewhere.

Did i sign up? Nope. My father would have killed me. My brothers did. Sexist, but thats how it was in my family. My son would. They wont take him. And if you think a military family isnt as much a part of the military as the men or women that serve, think again. Its just as hard on the families having to move each year, having to worry about their loved ones who are gone. Mt dad used to call on his "tours". The typical response. "Im fine. I cant tell you where I am, I cant say why I am here... but Im fine."

Kids give up alot in the military families.. so do spouses. Just because they dont carry a gun doesnt mean they dont carry alot of baggage.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Naturalization - 8/8/2010 11:41:04 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		My son would enlist over my dead body, and I have told him so.

If we get invaded he and I can join the front lines with our pitchforks. I do not see occupying foriegn countries as a service to this one. I would rather have productive people here working for a better future rather than people who were willing to carry a gun for someone else's flag.

btw, I think bita is really right on about one thing... going to a strange country and leaving the one you left behind IS paying a price... a very high one

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Naturalization - 8/8/2010 11:45:51 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Im not being bitchy with this comment... so dont take it that way. But, what you are saying, as i see it, is that these men and women can come here and do what you wont allow your own son to do and they still, in your opinion, dont deserve to be citizens of a country they went out and served. Regardless of the service asked of them, they still go and do their duty. We, as a people, may not like the service they are asked to do... im sure many of the soldiers dont either. But they still go. They deserve something beyond a paycheck and a uniform for that service,

As to the fact that just leaving your home country to come to a better one to make a better life being payment... nope... im not buying into that. They are gaining, and giving nothing back. As with any path, there is a leap of faith. But they already know the payback they will receive far outweighs the risks. What risk? being deported back home to try again?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Naturalization - 8/9/2010 12:01:34 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I am against having our military all over the world. I am against empire. I am against squandering our future by paying for the military industrial complex. If I have to die for my country or my son does... I will be in THIS country.. not on foreign soil. I wonder about the motivation of a foreigner that is willing to do so.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Naturalization - 8/9/2010 12:05:25 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		A steady paycheck and housing are great incentives for someone who has neither of those.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Naturalization - 8/9/2010 12:06:30 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Which means their motivation isn't to be American, but to be a mercenary.. and that was what destroyed Rome

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Naturalization - 8/9/2010 12:08:04 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Honey, of course they want to be an american. Here is where the money is. Many americans join the military for the same reasons.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Naturalization - 8/9/2010 7:59:09 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

An anchor baby grows up here, its parents live here, they have a stake in the future of this country...


As was cited in another thread, there ia an entire wing of the foreign travel industry devoted solely to bringing pregnant women here to ahve their babies. Afterwards, they and their babies just go home.
The child is raised overseas.
It's hard to understand why we want that child to be an American citizen.

Birthright citizenship is an archaic notion being badly abused.

Anyway, isn't change what we're all about these days?

< Message edited by truckinslave -- 8/9/2010 8:16:06 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Naturalization - 8/9/2010 8:07:15 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I agree.

I think people should have to pass an IQ test.

I think the test should be retroactive.

Everyone who fails has to return to their country of origin.

I will not miss many of you.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Naturalization - 8/9/2010 8:12:03 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

But, julia, the argument can be made that those who come here and join the military for reasons of citizenship do have a stake in our society. Many have families. They develop ties. Lord knows the indoctrination of the different branches is all about country.


I have posted before that I believe, after we secure our borders, that longterm illegals who have assimilated and been good members of society should be offered no more than permanent legal residency, that American citizenship should never be a reward for illegality.
If there is an exception to this I think it has to be for an honorably-discharged veteran of the US Army, Marines, Air Force, or Navy. If the guy was willing to fight our wars, I'd be honored to attend the citizenship ceremony or assist in whatever way I could.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Naturalization - 8/9/2010 8:39:58 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Lord knows the indoctrination of the different branches is all about country.


Actually it isnt, or wasnt during the VietNam era. It was all about your unit and your branch of the military. Country was almost never mentioned. Saluting the flag was as close as it came.

Youre right about everything else in this thread tho!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Naturalization - 8/9/2010 10:10:37 AM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline 		Sometimes people get onto to a subject and just wont let go. Like atheist zealots, religious zealots. I find it funny that one of our very intense illegal alien zealots responses to the way this continent was taken in the first place it is to "get over it" and yet on an on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about illegal aliens with soooooo much disapproval, on top of it trying to run the sandbox, telling people what they can and cannot say. Get over it..



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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Naturalization - 8/9/2010 11:14:59 AM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Should it come with a price tag or should US citizenship be given away?


I think with people all over the world, lined up and attempting to get US citizenship it should come with a price tag!
I am not sure what the price tag should be, but if citizenship is given to some people, than it should be given to all people that want to come here.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Naturalization - 8/9/2010 2:48:20 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I asked this because the cost of applying for citizenship is $600, from what i can tell from the immigration web site.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Naturalization - 8/9/2010 3:07:04 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

But, julia, the argument can be made that those who come here and join the military for reasons of citizenship do have a stake in our society. Many have families. They develop ties. Lord knows the indoctrination of the different branches is all about country.


I have posted before that I believe, after we secure our borders, that longterm illegals who have assimilated and been good members of society should be offered no more than permanent legal residency, that American citizenship should never be a reward for illegality.
If there is an exception to this I think it has to be for an honorably-discharged veteran of the US Army, Marines, Air Force, or Navy. If the guy was willing to fight our wars, I'd be honored to attend the citizenship ceremony or assist in whatever way I could.


I would allow the Coast Guard as well.  Even if I have never considered them "real" military. 

I can understand the $600 filing fee for citizenship.  I would just hate for it to become an "indulgence equivalent." 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Naturalization - 8/9/2010 3:09:07 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The Coast Guard is always used as the clean up crew. Dont go overboard at sea if you dont view them in a good light... they will be the men and women you are thanking for saving your life. My dad spent time in Nam filling body bags with the CG.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 39
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