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RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 6:17:05 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

WASHINGTON – Senate Democrats broke through a stubborn Republican filibuster Tuesday and pressed to restart jobless benefits for 2 1/2 million Americans still unable to find work in the frail national economic recovery. The Democrats were victorious by the single vote of a new senator sworn in only moments earlier.

Senators voted 60-40 to move ahead on the bill, clearing the way for a final vote in the chamber on Wednesday.


Full story

Looks like a republican broke with the party to pull this out of the fire.


Missing the full story, jlf. When originally proposed this Jobs Bill contained provisions for payroll tax credits to small businesses that hire and retain the unemployed; money for States to retain teachers, firemen, and police; and money for highway and other infrastructure construction. The Democrats have little to celebrate here and the Republicans' obstructonism is more appalling than is apparent.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 8:15:27 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Lets recall what the Republican position on this bill actually was.

The position was hold the democrats to their own promise of Pay As You Go.

They even agreed that if the Democrates would take the money from the Porkulous bill left overs that have not been spent. They would be OK with that.

Such obstructionism is terrible.



(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 8:24:32 AM   
AsmodaisSin


Posts: 320
Joined: 7/28/2009
From: NOVA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Lets recall what the Republican position on this bill actually was.

The position was hold the democrats to their own promise of Pay As You Go.

They even agreed that if the Democrates would take the money from the Porkulous bill left overs that have not been spent. They would be OK with that.

Such obstructionism is terrible.



It is so horrible.  I can't believe they'd expect Obama to pay for it.  SHAME!


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 8:40:05 AM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

WASHINGTON – Senate Democrats broke through a stubborn Republican filibuster Tuesday and pressed to restart jobless benefits for 2 1/2 million Americans still unable to find work in the frail national economic recovery. The Democrats were victorious by the single vote of a new senator sworn in only moments earlier.

Senators voted 60-40 to move ahead on the bill, clearing the way for a final vote in the chamber on Wednesday.


Full story

Looks like a republican broke with the party to pull this out of the fire.


Reality is that Republicans stubbornly favored using already allocated but unused "stimulus" funds so as to not increase the already unsustainable deficit while Demoncraps stubbornly favored allocating new funding thus increasing the already unsustainable deficit.

Reality is that Republicans simply tried to hold Demoncraps to their 2006/2008 election promise of "Pay as you go" while Demoncraps simply reneged on another of their 2006/2008 election promises.

Reality is that if, IF, any of Obama's and the Demoncraps economic/jobs "stimulus" bills had worked as promised 2 1/2 million Americans wouldn't still be unable to find work.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 11:13:00 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Lets recall what the Republican position on this bill actually was.

The position was hold the democrats to their own promise of Pay As You Go.

They even agreed that if the Democrates would take the money from the Porkulous bill left overs that have not been spent. They would be OK with that.

Such obstructionism is terrible.



The "unsustainable deficit" was not a problem when Republicans voted for unpaid tax cuts (which never lead to prosperity) nor when they went into a needless and immoral war. None of that spending was paid for. Now they are holier-than-thou when it comes to balancing the budget. Puhleez. Just bullshit politics. The Republicans' hands are stained red from deficit spending and from the blood of 4300 American lives lost in Iraq.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 11:17:10 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Lets recall what the Republican position on this bill actually was.

The position was hold the democrats to their own promise of Pay As You Go.

They even agreed that if the Democrates would take the money from the Porkulous bill left overs that have not been spent. They would be OK with that.

Such obstructionism is terrible.



The "unsustainable deficit" was not a problem when Republicans voted for unpaid tax cuts (which never lead to prosperity) nor when they went into a needless and immoral war. None of that spending was paid for. Now they are holier-than-thou when it comes to balancing the budget. Puhleez. Just bullshit politics. The Republicans' hands are stained red from deficit spending and from the blood of 4300 American lives lost in Iraq.


Obama has done more to increase the current deficit in 18 months than Bush did in 8 years. Projected for 10 years he will have more than tripled the existing deficit. Apparently those are equal sins to you. They arent to anyone who lives within their means.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 11:24:06 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I decried the budget when the republicans stopped being deficit hawks too.
I screamed when Bush expanded the government  larger than many Democrats ever dreamed of.

I was an remain hawkish on the Iraq thing as neither immoral nor needless.

If Newt had violated the Contract with America the way Pelosi has violate Pay Go I'd have been calling for his head too.




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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 12:31:13 PM   
joether


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Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Obama has done more to increase the current deficit in 18 months than Bush did in 8 years. Projected for 10 years he will have more than tripled the existing deficit. Apparently those are equal sins to you. They arent to anyone who lives within their means.


This is so completely untrue. If Mr. Obama has increase the deficit in 18 months, what it took Mr. Bush 8 years, the national debt would be hovering around $19-22 Trillion USD. In other words, our taxes, would be going up through the roof right now! Since, that is not happening, it stands to reason, that your arguement is flawed.

However, Senator Al Franken, did have this to say on the nation's budget. You can also get the transcript and see the charts better here. Yes, it is a 40 minute dialog, but he does make quite a few good points. I'll take the senator's information (which originates from the CBO) over your 'estimates' willbeurdaddy. I found charts 4, 5, 7 and 8 quite interesting. If Mr. Bush kept to the economic plan Mr. Clinton had back in 1998, the deficit wouldnt be a problem right now. Why is it, that Republicans, want to vote in to office, the same crew that got the USA in this problem, IN THE FIRST PLACE? Does that sound sane to you?

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 1:16:17 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		joether you are mixing and matching the terms deficit and debt

The deficit for fiscal year 2009, which ended Sept. 30, came in at a record $1.42 trillion, more than triple the record set just last year.

From a USA today story October 16, 2009
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2009/10/620000005/1

The national debt is at 13.3 trillion dollars

Take a look at you own chart 5 in Frankins set of charts, where was the deficit at the end of Bush in 2008 (about 3% of GDP). and where is it now (10% of GDP)?
looks like tripple to me.


(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 1:27:54 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:


And why is it that Republicans who supported massive bailouts for for the financial and auto firms decided helping laid-off workers was a welfare program?


What about the ones who didn't support the massive bailout, but still acknowledge that the extensions amount to a welfare program? And why is admitting it is a welfare program such a terrible thing. Don't you feel welfare programs are necessary?



Do you?

The GOP and conservatives, both of which you align yourself with, don't seem to feel they are necessary unless it is corporate welfare.

Maybe you should come over from the dark side.  

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 1:31:51 PM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		Ya know...all I can say is that Americans who needed and still need these benefits are/were being held hostage like citizens who need public transportation during a strike. We don't really give a fuck why or what for the strike is happening. In the end all we see is greedy fuckers making our lives harder.

Just sayin....

boi


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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 1:38:01 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Funny thing about the deficit.

Each year the Department of Transportation puts in a budget that includes major interstate and highway repair.

Each year Congress approves a subsidy to the Railroad industry to improve the railroad track network.

Each year the Department of Defense puts in their budget the cost of improvements to US military bases (housing, new buildings, renovation and modernizing old buildings, and in some cases, completely new base housing.)

The vast majority of that money goes unused. The reason is simple, there are only so many companies to do the work involved.

But each year those items are included in the new budget requests.

Wouldn't make sense to have the US Army Corps of Engineers hire more civilian workers, equipment and necessary materials to actually do the projects that have been budgeted but are not getting done?

The total number of jobs for Infrastructure (bridges, dams, flood control,) highways, Construction related projects on military bases, would make a serious dent in the unemployment rate.

The money is technically already spent, just waiting to be used.

I mean the Interstate and US highways are FEDERAL projects, Dam and levee and flood control are federal projects, why shouldn't the federal agency that is supposed to inspect, contract, and oversee the work actually do some of the work?

It would not increase the Deficit, since it would be using money already appropriated, the work would be long lasting since the nation's infrastructure is in need of constant repair.

Other countries do it with some success, why shouldn't we?

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(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 2:04:44 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		National Deficit and Nation Debt, is rather becoming the same thing. It depends on which sounds either A) More PC or B) More stressful to you. As neither one, is good for the country. While you are correct, that typically, the 'national deficit' is for the budget year; and 'national debt' regards the current amount owed. It does get interchanged to often. Not just myself, but others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Take a look at you own chart 5 in Frankins set of charts, where was the deficit at the end of Bush in 2008 (about 3% of GDP). and where is it now (10% of GDP)? looks like tripple to me.


3%? Are you kidding me? Here is Chart 5. Chart 6, is a focused section of Chart 5. At the end of Bush 2008, was the 10%! Chart 6 is better detailed of both the last few years and the next few to come. The charts show an upward tick. Yes, the stimulus bill is set to run out at the end of this year. During its run, it has kept the country from sinking in to a full depression (which would have increased national debt considerably), and buy time for the markets to stablized, and start growing (if a bit...slow). The markets are indeed growing, if slowly. I'm sure your not for economic depressions, right? What would have happen, if we had listen to Republicans for the past two years?

Now, Chart 6, (again, according to the CBO), does show the deficit dropping further in 2011, but projects an increase (and possible decline) by 2014. If you are demanding goverment to predict the future with perfect accuracy; your just asking for the unreasonable. Heck, if I could predict the future with perfect accuracy, how long do you think, would I remain non-billionaire-ish?




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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 2:07:24 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

National Deficit and Nation Debt, is rather becoming the same thing.






Anything you say after that is worthless. Much like what you have said before that.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 2:09:57 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I hate when I am forced to agree with Wilbeur.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 2:19:27 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

National Deficit and Nation Debt, is rather becoming the same thing.






Anything you say after that is worthless. Much like what you have said before that.


Yes, thank you for your one sentence of 'knowledge'. When people talk about 'National Deficit' and 'National Debt'; how many of them can point out the difference? How many use the terms, interchangibly, or in place of the other? Like alot of other issues in this country, the terminology is not being agreed upon when talking. The result should be obvious: confuses the hell out of people.

But, that is your lame attempt, to dismiss the facts.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 2:51:10 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		With charts having no grid and having a scale that sucks I was reading Bush at 3% at end of term.

Since Current deficit reads to me as 2009 the 2008 would be the tick mark before that which was at about 3%


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 3:21:57 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

National Deficit and Nation Debt, is rather becoming the same thing.






Anything you say after that is worthless. Much like what you have said before that.


Yes, thank you for your one sentence of 'knowledge'. When people talk about 'National Deficit' and 'National Debt'; how many of them can point out the difference? How many use the terms, interchangibly, or in place of the other? Like alot of other issues in this country, the terminology is not being agreed upon when talking. The result should be obvious: confuses the hell out of people.

But, that is your lame attempt, to dismiss the facts.


No, its your lame attempt to hide the fact that you were one of the confused. Being uneducated isnt a problem, trying to hide the fact is.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 3:30:59 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

National Deficit and Nation Debt, is rather becoming the same thing.






Anything you say after that is worthless. Much like what you have said before that.


Yes, thank you for your one sentence of 'knowledge'. When people talk about 'National Deficit' and 'National Debt'; how many of them can point out the difference? How many use the terms, interchangibly, or in place of the other? Like alot of other issues in this country, the terminology is not being agreed upon when talking. The result should be obvious: confuses the hell out of people.

But, that is your lame attempt, to dismiss the facts.


No, its your lame attempt to hide the fact that you were one of the confused. Being uneducated isnt a problem, trying to hide the fact is.


Again we witness the pot and kettle Willbeur is so famous for.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Filibuster broken, jobless benefits may flow soon - 7/21/2010 4:24:36 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

National Deficit and Nation Debt, is rather becoming the same thing.






Anything you say after that is worthless. Much like what you have said before that.


Yes, thank you for your one sentence of 'knowledge'. When people talk about 'National Deficit' and 'National Debt'; how many of them can point out the difference? How many use the terms, interchangibly, or in place of the other? Like alot of other issues in this country, the terminology is not being agreed upon when talking. The result should be obvious: confuses the hell out of people.

But, that is your lame attempt, to dismiss the facts.


No, its your lame attempt to hide the fact that you were one of the confused. Being uneducated isnt a problem, trying to hide the fact is.


Again we witness the pot and kettle Willbeur is so famous for.



At least youve perfected the ability to say nothing.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 40
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