RE: Inviting Yourself Into Other People's Dynamics (Full Version)

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Lucienne -> RE: Inviting Yourself Into Other People's Dynamics (7/16/2010 8:36:42 PM)

FR

In meat space, I normally require more than an invitation to comment on someone's dynamic. Because, really, why do I need to be involved? On the internet,  well... I think when you post things on a forum like this you're opening yourself to a wide variety of responses. I confess I do not always respect the call of the question (e.g. if you've ever had sex on the Moon, did you think it was ok when he went ass to vagina?!!!) but I have noticed that I'm more reticent than usual about offering any "advice" around here, versus just offering my response. So many of the posters here are looking for validation, not advice. I feel pretty comfortable saying "sorry, can't validate." Offering unsolicited advice is a bit trickier.



KurtAllen -> RE: Inviting Yourself Into Other People's Dynamics (7/17/2010 4:41:42 AM)

Contrary to your belief we are all responsible one to the other, certainly, there are some things better left unsaid and conducts, actions or reactions better restrained but doing nothing at a time where action is necessary diminishes the man of me, woman of you and us all. DM my ass, if life is at risk, somebody’ will experience a new awakening



sirsholly -> RE: Inviting Yourself Into Other People's Dynamics (7/17/2010 7:03:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

In both cases (posting to the public board or asking a person friend for advice) it is a case of being invited in.  The door is being opened when the approach is made.  If it's on the board, you invite everyone.  In private, you are only asking the person that you are sending the correspondence. 

Sometimes though, i can open the door when i see someone is hurting. Even if it is something as simple as a touch and asking if they are alright, or something equally as non-intrusive. It is THEIR decision as to whether or not to let me in, but the door is open.



DesFIP -> RE: Inviting Yourself Into Other People's Dynamics (7/17/2010 7:29:43 AM)

In a public dungeon or a private play party, if you think there's a problem the answer is simple. You turn it over to those who are there to protect, the DM or the host. Because what is extreme play to you could be carefully done by them with the full knowledge of the DM.

However let's think more widely. If you're out for a walk and you see a drunk screaming abuse at a woman standing next to him, what do you do? You could try to intervene but that's frequently dangerous. Do you walk away or do you call the police?



abuddingdom -> RE: Inviting Yourself Into Other People's Dynamics (7/17/2010 8:43:47 AM)

ok - an example occurred today : I was driving and noticed a bicycle and a helmet on the edge of the road. Nobody was around and it appeared as if they were just thrown there on the ground very near the road. I turned around and went back and realized that it was right near a cemetery. 50 yards or so from the bike and helmet I saw a man leaning against a tree, just inside the grounds of the cemetery, and sobbing. Why he left his things in a heap by the road is a mystery but I assumed a) he was near someone's grave, griefstricken, or b)he'd just recieved and was reacting to bad news via cellphone and just happened to be near the cemetery at the time. I thought of driving in and asking if there was anything I could say or do to help, but I didn't . However, I kind of wish I had. Likely there's nothing I could have done but it's also likely a bit of human kindness certainly wouldn't have hurt that guy, right then.....



jujubeeMB -> RE: Inviting Yourself Into Other People's Dynamics (7/17/2010 10:33:05 AM)

I love True Blood so freakin much. I'm actually watching it right now [:D]

I agree with most of what everyone else has said, except that I am more inclined to pull someone aside or take them out to lunch and ask them a few direct questions about whether they're ok or not. I'll only do it if it's someone I know and care about, but since my mom was a domestic violence counselor for fifteen years, and I've been the recipient of non-BDSM abuse, my abuse meter is extremely well-tuned. There's a huge difference between wanting to be "abused" by your partner and taking it out of fear and isolation, and sometimes people just need someone to ask them which side of it they're on. I know that some of you will disagree with me on this, but I respect dynamics less than I respect people, and if the dynamic is so fragile it can't handle two or three questions from me, there's a problem.

I will never, ever tell someone to leave a partner (except best friends and relatives), but if they tell me they're terrified to say something to their partner because of what he'll do, or that he's completely overstepped their agreement on what their relationship was to begin with and won't hear a word of protest, I'm going to recommend it. If someone tells me that they're absolutely miserable and stressed out all the time and aren't getting pleasure from what they're doing, I'm not going to go "oh, that's your dynamic. I have to respect your Dom." Other people do a fantastic job of that, and I respect the self control y'all seem to have when it comes to allowing other people their kinks. But I come from the possibly closed-minded school of thought that non-consent is anytime someone didn't sign up to be made miserable and terrified (I know some people get off on it - more power to them) and I am violently against fear-based coercion and non-consent. So I will always speak up about it, because some people just aren't strong enough to do it on their own.

Oh, and the message boards shouldn't even be a debate. I believe several other people have said this, but if someone posts their situation on a message board, everyone is going to respond with their opinions on the person's dynamic, and they should. When I first started on these boards, I made a stupid mistake and made a thread about it, and if people had only told me what I wanted to hear, I never would have learned anything. We talk about having open minds a lot, but the most important feature of an open mind is being able to handle someone challenging your views (as long as the challenging is done in a non-jerky manner) and really listening to them. You can walk away with the exact same take on your situation, but sometimes you get the pleasure of walking away knowing more than you did before. People don't always know what they need until they get it, and so variety is always good.

Just my fourteen cents [;)]



IronBear -> RE: Inviting Yourself Into Other People's Dynamics (7/17/2010 4:02:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KurtAllen

Contrary to your belief we are all responsible one to the other, certainly, there are some things better left unsaid and conducts, actions or reactions better restrained but doing nothing at a time where action is necessary diminishes the man of me, woman of you and us all. DM my ass, if life is at risk, somebody’ will experience a new awakening


I disagree here Kurt but would be interested to know what you have to support this theory. I do agree that when life is at risk some one will experience a new awakening but that does not say the we all are responsible for saving that life. There are some lives which should be ended poste haste...Just as there are some relationships which should be ended poste haste but if those in that relationship chooses to remain there then the sole responsibility of what happens is theirs.



LaTigresse -> RE: Inviting Yourself Into Other People's Dynamics (7/18/2010 6:24:36 AM)

For me......there is a lot of gray in the topic.

My first instinct is to reply......keep my nose out unless invited in. Obvious.

But after giving a bit of thought, it's not so simple. I realize that my level of give a damn about the people involved is going to directly affect whether I invite myself in or not.

Another factor is going to be tied into something that is near and dear to my little black heart, personal responsibility. Obviously I believe strongly in it. My conern would be when all persons involved are clearly not able to own the responsibility for their choices through no fault of their own.

So yes, while I am pretty black and white at first consideration, I also acknowledge that there will be a whole lot of possible deciding factors that may cause the black and white to get mixed into shades of gray.



sirsholly -> RE: Inviting Yourself Into Other People's Dynamics (7/18/2010 6:37:59 AM)

quote:

However let's think more widely. If you're out for a walk and you see a drunk screaming abuse at a woman standing next to him, what do you do? You could try to intervene but that's frequently dangerous. Do you walk away or do you call the police?

i would call 911 then intervene....but i never claimed sanity



DomImus -> RE: Inviting Yourself Into Other People's Dynamics (7/18/2010 6:45:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
We don't stop scenes involving other people, even if we think they are going wrong.  We put our faith in the top that the situation can be handled.  If in a public play space, we get a  DM.

We don't walk up to a submissive who hasn't come to us first, to tell them we think their Dom or Domme is abusing them.

We don't tell an Owner that they don't have the right to do with their property as they see fit, if no one involved in the dynamic has an issue with what is happening.

In areas like this, we have not been invited in.


I have seen each of these things happen in real life. Whether they should happen is open for discussion but I've seen a number of incidents where someone insinuated themselves into the situation uninvited.



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Inviting Yourself Into Other People's Dynamics (7/18/2010 7:00:22 AM)

quote:

How do you define where you have been invited in by other kinky people?


I tend to get 'invited in' relatively often, since my role as a pastoral care provider with experience in and compassion for the community is pretty common knowledge. I use the same criteria for BDSM that I use for any other relationship where issues of the health of the relationship come up. If you come to me, and ask me to help out, I consider myself "invited in". If we're having a hypothetical discussion about something, and someone indicates that xhe has experience in that area that may be something I consider... problematic.... I -still- have to mind my own business. I will typically put out there that I'm -available- if someone needs me... but I sure as heck won't go charging off to "rescue the maiden" when the individual in question isn't showing any signs of wanting to be -out- of the situation.

quote:

Real life vrs online?

I consider a message board post to -be- an invitation. The author of the post may not have thought he was inviting me (think Tara in the last episode), but if you put it out in a public venue, I feel free to speak my peace. Other online relationships (chat-based, cam-based, etc.)... if its not public access, it's not my business. The only way I get involved in those relationships is under the same terms as in face-to-face relationships... if someone actually asks for my contribution.

quote:

In those cases where you haven't been invited in, do you chose to go in anyway?

I'm human. Sometimes, something that is happening really bothers me, and sometimes, I do flap my yap without thinking things through first. I do try for a modicum of discretion, though. I'll usually ask some open-ended questions and then leave my card... and if I am able to do so, all the members of the relationship, regardless of the side of the kneel, will get my contact information, so that there is no perception that I'm going behind other peoples' backs.

There have been a couple of occasions where I stepped outside of my own comfort zone and asked elders in our community to keep an eye on a couple of situations that were -really- giving me the willies. In both cases, though, it turned out that they were MY personal willies.... everyone in the relationships in question was down with what was happening and how it was happening -- so it's a darned good thing I handled things the way I did, or I wouldn't have the reputation in the community that makes it possible for people to trust that when they call me with an issue, I'll help them find -their- solution, instead of trying to force my -own- solutions on someone else.

Calla



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