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LafayetteLady -> RE: Should Life in prison, really mean Life in prison? Van Houten (7/8/2010 12:37:08 AM)
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None of the Manson Family currently in prison will ever be paroled, we all know that deep down. There are still to this day, active Manson Family members. There are young fools who worship Manson and openly admit they would follow and obey this crazy man if given the chance. I think in the history of the United States, the Manson Family crimes are among the most frightening. There are many who say that our society created Manson. As a child he was abused, ignored, neglected. But many children suffer the same horrible childhood and don't grow up to become the mastermind of such horribly crimes.
Susan Atkins, was the one who got all of them arrested. She was so proud of what they had done, she couldn't keep her mouth shut while in prison on another charge and talked about the crimes. She was PROUD of what they did. She wanted to go "home" to die from the cancer that was destroying her body? Did her family pay for her chemo therapy or other cancer treatments? Nope. The tax payers did. I have a problem with that. I don't believe that we should let prisoners suffer from painful conditions, but I don't believe they should be treated for things like cancer either. Make them comfortable with pain meds and let the disease run its course.
I have often wondered about Leslie VanHouten. My mother's maiden name was VanHouten and she had a brother who during a first failed marriage had children that he didn't see after the divorce and his remarriage. I've done some research but was never able to find out whether or not that was one of his children. No, I haven't spoken to that Uncle in years, he wouldn't admit it anyway, but yes the Leslie's age would be about correct. Just some potential scary family history for me I guess.
DS, you talk about there being a "painless" way for a convicted felon to be put to death. The "claim" that lethal injection is painful is based on various things that are measured during the injection, such as heart rate. There are, logically, many explanations for the "test results" besides it being painful. Lethal injection is, to date, the least painful way for someone to die. Any pain that maybe felt is minimal and short lived. I'm sure there is a lot going on in the mind of the person being put to death stapped down to the table waiting for the fluids that will kill him.
The death penalty is not given lightly. There must be extreme mitagating circumstances to even request the death penalty as punishment. Even when the death penalty is given, there are automatic appeals that are done, detailed reviews of every single thing done during trial, going over the evidence with a fine tooth comb and the inmate's conviction is not carried out for quite a few years. The cost of the death penalty to the state (and therefore the taxpayers) is in the millions. On average it is more expensive to carry out the death penalty that to give life in prison. It is rare for the inmate to remain alive as long as Manson has.
That does not translate to me being against the death penalty. I am very much in favor of the death penalty and actually believe that the Manson Family's sentences should have been reinstituted when California brought the death penalty back.
Rule,
The concept that you have is appalling. When the time comes that we, as a society, will relish the idea of watching what amounts to nothing more than a snuff film of convicts fighting to the death, we will have completely lost our sense of humanity and the inmates will be running the asylum as the saying goes. There is not one redeeming quality to your idea.
As for domi's state of "At what point is justice served" the answer is "When the victims are no longer dead." It really is that simple. I believe in forgiveness. To forgive someone for the crimes they may have committed against your loved ones will improve your life because you will be able to not carry the burden of hatred all your life. But that doesn't equate to saying that once the person is forgiven they should not have to pay for their crimes.
There is no way that a commuted death penalty sentence, once turned into a life sentence should ever permit parole. It is sad that many "life" sentences do permit for parole. If you do something horrible enough to warrant a life sentence, you shouldn't be able to look through a window that doesn't have bars for the rest of your days. It really is that simple.
And to lazarus1983, as usual, it is with great delight to know the liklihood of you being a parent is slim. Parents are not always at fault nor have they failed if their children commit crimes or become a menace to society. If that were the case, just based on your posts that I have read, I would have to say that your parents failed miserably in the raising of you.
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