RE: Pause for thought

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kdsub -> RE: Pause for thought (7/5/2010 5:40:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 Time and time again a war to end all wars occurs, it seems we are destined to think fighting is the answer for all eternity. So it will never end we can't pretend that fighting now prevents fighting in the future this is not the case and shouldn't be sold as such. I don't know anyone that has the will to fight until they are the victim of such fighting. To have the will to kill a human being takes a special kind of pain or perhaps just a special type of ignorance. It's alien to me this idea: "Oh I'm going to kill some people to protect my way of life." What goes through the mind of someone that has concluded that is the first option? It's a pretty extreme standpoint to arrive at so quickly. It would take a lifetime to reasonably conclude that is the best option, how is anyone convinced of this before the age of twenty? Like I said I understand your thinking and wish the world was as you would like it... but it's not...do you want to be doomed to repeat history... if not come up with some good ideas...Make them sensible and workable and I would stand with you. Butch

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Pause for thought (7/5/2010 5:46:31 PM)
All I can suggest is that we take the occasional hit and win the moral argument for a change. We have to support Israel but withdraw from the wider middle east. It's impossible to keep up any campaign of hate going if it has no fuel. Yes the hatred against us will remain for generations but eventually nothing will keep it going but lies and lies don't keep anything going for long.

kdsub -> RE: Pause for thought (7/5/2010 6:05:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 All I can suggest is that we take the occasional hit and win the moral argument for a change. I actually think that would be a good strategy for Israel. I have often wondered why they don’t do it. Of course you must remember that strategy would only help with how the world views Israel…It would not change at all the fanatic Islamic thinking. Nothing less than total submission will suite them… don’t you agree? As for the US, I don’t think any national government could survive allowing 3,000 citizens murdered without a response. Just taking one would require that and I’m afraid that will not happen and I don’t want it to. I want to kill the bastards. Call me a war monger but I do want revenge… many here will pussyfoot around that sentiment but I’m not one of them. No country has ever won and held meaningful peace with appeasement and defense. Butch

Aneirin -> RE: Pause for thought (7/5/2010 8:05:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Rule, How the hell war benefits the population I will never know. There is only one benefit war gives to mankind and that is technological progress. All those designers that are used to designing the mundanes in life, come a war, the scale of the second world war, those designers turn their expertise to designing more and more effective weapons and war related products. Come the end of the war society has taken great leaps in technology, all that from the forced design need used in war years. Second World war for example, Britain went in with a few biplanes and the occaisional monoplane and came out with the jet engine, even Triang the toy manufacturer pre war was responsible for the most effective design of the sten gun, which itself was originally designed on a kitchen table. What would be more of an achievement post war is a memory that lasts, a memory of the horrors of war that does not fade away with time or new education.

LadyEllen -> RE: Pause for thought (7/6/2010 2:52:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Why did you let him go...he is only 15...but besides that there is nothing wrong with the desire to defend YOU and your way of life. Rather then him however it is us that must NOW make it so he will not need to put on that uniform. There is a war like it or not... sticking our heads in the sand will not stop it and blaming the likes of Bush will not either. If we had fought it with conviction 8 years ago it would not still be going on... We must either fight or give up... One way preserves our way of life and the other destroys it... which will it be for you? You are correct to say our present course is not working I’ll not defend it…but you and I must then think up new ways to end this conflict or your son and my grandson will still be fighting this war 15 years from now…if they survive. Butch Wow. And there I was thinking I was commenting on how awful the merest imagined suggestion of him being a casualty was and how much more awful the real thing must be. E

kdsub -> RE: Pause for thought (7/6/2010 10:14:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Wow. And there I was thinking I was commenting on how awful the merest imagined suggestion of him being a casualty was and how much more awful the real thing must be. E Of course you are right forgive me. Butch

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Pause for thought (7/7/2010 7:45:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub As for the US, I don’t think any national government could survive allowing 3,000 citizens murdered without a response. Just taking one would require that and I’m afraid that will not happen and I don’t want it to. I want to kill the bastards. Call me a war monger but I do want revenge… many here will pussyfoot around that sentiment but I’m not one of them. No country has ever won and held meaningful peace with appeasement and defense. I don't really see what the difference is in terms of where people die? In terms of human costs it's exactly the same you die at home or you die abroad. On the one hand we are manipulating people to die for a cause and on the other we are accepting that everyone in the society should have the same risks held above their head.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Pause for thought (7/7/2010 1:44:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Rule, How the hell war benefits the population I will never know. Guess the word "defense" is missing from your dictionary.

LaTigresse -> RE: Pause for thought (7/7/2010 1:54:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Rule, How the hell war benefits the population I will never know. Unfortunately war does benefit the population. It gives a reason for the government to appropriate money for research into technology they would not otherwise be able to justify. Technology that then ends up being tweaked and mass produced for the population at large.

heartcream -> RE: Pause for thought (7/7/2010 10:07:24 PM)
I wish war would end and all the other creepy things going on too. Like our food being poisoned and on and on and on with creepy unhealthy unloving crap. I wish there was no more war ever again and no need to defend ourselves or each other, we could all live in peace and harmony. Yay!

Nineveh -> RE: Pause for thought (7/7/2010 10:28:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Rule, How the hell war benefits the population I will never know. There is only one benefit war gives to mankind and that is technological progress. All those designers that are used to designing the mundanes in life, come a war, the scale of the second world war, those designers turn their expertise to designing more and more effective weapons and war related products. Come the end of the war society has taken great leaps in technology, all that from the forced design need used in war years. Second World war for example, Britain went in with a few biplanes and the occaisional monoplane and came out with the jet engine, even Triang the toy manufacturer pre war was responsible for the most effective design of the sten gun, which itself was originally designed on a kitchen table. What would be more of an achievement post war is a memory that lasts, a memory of the horrors of war that does not fade away with time or new education. It also improves the employment levels, and kills off a significant portion of the population, which can often be a benefit as it means that their wealth is redistributed to the rest.

TheHeretic -> RE: Pause for thought (7/7/2010 11:06:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML What do you suppose it would be like if there were no war, <sings> and I think to myself ... what a wonderful world Meanwhile, back on planet earth, that's the deal, LadyE. The armed forces don't just take an oath they must live with, but one their families don't get much say in either.

LadyEllen -> RE: Pause for thought (7/8/2010 3:47:44 AM)
No say? Really? That will explain my brother's decision not to get himself embroiled in this mess then I suppose. That us sitting him down for a chat was a pointless intervention and that he changed his ideas all of his own accord. There's been more than enough of this shit in our family already thanks. The old lie has no currency here, and we will do our best to keep it that way. Further than that I wont comment, so I guess I can be written off as an unpatriotic appeaser of the enemy or some such nonsense. E

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