Mixed signals

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LaTigresse -> Mixed signals (6/29/2010 12:32:57 PM)
I was just reading another thread on 'forced' sexual interactions between two men and whether or not dominant women like it. That topic, this specific time, got me thinking about something. It is something that my brain does a "Ewwwwww yuck gross, oh hell no!!" I do not ever choose to watch anything sexual between two men. Hell, I don't even enjoy watching a man and woman. But...... I know that there have been times when I have seen some sort of sexual interaction between two men, and on rare occasion a man and woman, and been, to some degree, physically aroused. When that happens I don't get freaked out. I have never even really thought much about it for whatever reason. It was just now, when reading that one thread, I had a 'hmmmm' moment. I wondered why something that squicked me at most conscious levels, can still arouse me at a more subconscious level. Well I really already know the answer to that but still thought the whole mixed signals aspect of it interesting. Then I began to wonder if others have the same sort of reactions (I am pretty sure I am not so weird as to be the ONLY one) and what their specific mixed signals issues were. I think that for many men it is often some form of male on male sexuality, but I am sure there are other things also. Are there BDSM activities that you just immediately think "Oh hell no! YUCK!!!" but also at some level get aroused by?

MagiksSlave -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 12:37:30 PM)
Yes, but thats all Im saying [8D]

HisEvelyn -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 12:37:44 PM)
Group sex. For some reason I am fascinated by gangbang porn, though the idea of ever doing so in real life or watching people outside of a movie setting totally upsets me/turns me off/makes me sick. I suppose that isn't really a specifically BDSM activity, but it definitely brings about that mixed signals feeling you speak about.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 12:44:35 PM)
I read a study once which involved testing sexual responses to porn-what they found is that in general men respond to either straight and lesbian porn OR gay porn but rarely both (regardless of whether or not they listed their orientation as bisexual) whereas women responded to sex in general, regardless of the genders of those having it. It causes me no end of frustration that I can't remember who/where/what the study was...

81song -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 12:45:14 PM)
I see what you are saying but right off the top of my head I cannot think of anything as of right now. I hear you as to one part of your brain goes yuck while the other part of your brain goes hummmm. Maybe that is why many of us enjoy kink, but who knows. I guess one should always be asking question to each other. How else can one learn?

CreativeDominant -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 12:52:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I was just reading another thread on 'forced' sexual interactions between two men and whether or not dominant women like it. That topic, this specific time, got me thinking about something. It is something that my brain does a "Ewwwwww yuck gross, oh hell no!!" I do not ever choose to watch anything sexual between two men. Hell, I don't even enjoy watching a man and woman. But...... I know that there have been times when I have seen some sort of sexual interaction between two men, and on rare occasion a man and woman, and been, to some degree, physically aroused. When that happens I don't get freaked out. I have never even really thought much about it for whatever reason. It was just now, when reading that one thread, I had a 'hmmmm' moment. I wondered why something that squicked me at most conscious levels, can still arouse me at a more subconscious level. Well I really already know the answer to that but still thought the whole mixed signals aspect of it interesting. Then I began to wonder if others have the same sort of reactions (I am pretty sure I am not so weird as to be the ONLY one) and what their specific mixed signals issues were. I think that for many men it is often some form of male on male sexuality, but I am sure there are other things also. Are there BDSM activities that you just immediately think "Oh hell no! YUCK!!!" but also at some level get aroused by? Hello luscious lady...~smiles~. Yes, there are certain activities that do affect me that way. You and I share a mutual friend whose proclivity for a certain activity hit me that same way at first...on a conscious level. But underneath, it must have triggered something positive because as time went on, I eventually found myself thinking that it could be really interesting and exciting and arousing to at least try. Now then, do some things always hit me wrong consciously even while arousing me underneath? Yes, there are..and I know that those will be the things I will MOST likely never try...though note that I did not say DEFINITELY because I don't want to say never to anything that excites me on some level. [;)]

LaTigresse -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 12:53:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious I read a study once which involved testing sexual responses to porn-what they found is that in general men respond to either straight and lesbian porn OR gay porn but rarely both (regardless of whether or not they listed their orientation as bisexual) whereas women responded to sex in general, regardless of the genders of those having it. It causes me no end of frustration that I can't remember who/where/what the study was... That reminds me of a documentary I saw years ago. They were discussing a study that was done on hetro males and their opinions and reactions to gay men. The part that struck me as the most interesting was that every single man that expressed hatred and even a desire to be violent towards gay men had a strong positive reaction to the gay pornography part of the study. They interviewed all these men to get their point of view and then hooked them up to penile monitors and showed them a vast spectrum of pornography. The haters all responded sexually to the gay porn. Which leads me to think that there is some sort of societal conditioning (obviously) at work. Our brains have become so conditioned, for whatever individual reason to have the conscious squick factor but our deeper selves, the arousal, tells the truth.

Jeffff -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 12:54:53 PM)
Yes there are my darling..... yes there are........[;)]

LadyPact -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 12:55:04 PM)
I'm not aware of that one, VC. However, I am aware of the one that concluded that those who identify as being homophobic males were more likely to become aroused by gay porn than straight males who did not identify as homophobic. (I think we talked about that one on another thread.) LaT, I'm afraid I don't really have much to add on the mixed signals thing. The things that squick Me don't have a turn on factor. Now, if additional elements are introduced, such as combined kinks, that can work for Me. ETA - LaT, that is the exact study that I was referring to.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 12:57:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Which leads me to think that there is some sort of societal conditioning (obviously) at work. Our brains have become so conditioned, for whatever individual reason to have the conscious squick factor but our deeper selves, the arousal, tells the truth. I don't know that it's necessarily a case of 'truth'-just that mental arousal doesn't always fit exactly with physical arousal-some things will fall into one category and not the other. It seems a bit of a leap to automatically designate physical arousal as the 'true' measure and mental as the 'false'.

LaTigresse -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 12:59:53 PM)
I was also wondering that...........if all mental blockades were magically removed, would we still want to leave it where it is rather than physically explore it.

Jeffff -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 1:04:38 PM)
That is an interesting question. I had an off the cuff answer, but I am going to ponder that.

thatsub -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 1:05:49 PM)
In case of the sub in a forced bi scene, I think he is still suposed to be "Oh hell no! Yuck!", but still be short of using his safe word to get out. Otherwise, the scene loses its apeal.

LadyPact -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 1:06:38 PM)
It is social conditioning at work. How many people right on these boards didn't indulge in kink at first because it was 'wrong'? How many sadists or masochists didn't understand why 'bad' things turned them on? How many non-hetero folks thought there was something wrong with them? The learned response (what you've been taught) kicks in inside your brain after your instinctive urges. In that horse race, your primal urges (such as sexual) is going to come out in front every time.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 1:14:52 PM)
quote: Are there BDSM activities that you just immediately think "Oh hell no! YUCK!!!" but also at some level get aroused by? No - but in that 'no' context is everything. I've seen the exact same thing being done and responded with arousal that I've seen and responded with 'YUCK!'. I don't associate the reaction qualifier by the 'act' as much as I place it on the 'actors'. The most sensual and erotic flogging I ever witnessed without personal involvement was between two men. I don't assume a 'YUCK!' expectation regarding same sex interaction, sexual or S&M. However having experienced a 'YUCK' reaction watching an activity between a male Dom and female submissive doing something I commonly enjoy and find sensual and erotic, I don't assume arousal based upon the description of any 'lifestyle' activity. Going into both of those experiences with polar opposite expectations; the result supports my position that anything can potentially be erotic and sensual if the people involved are conveying to me sensual, passionate, and emotional intercourse. Regardless of the activity, I'm going to get aroused if I am seeing passion. Contrarily observing my favorite flavor of kink in a sterile, clinical context I'm very likely to say 'YUCK' and walk away from the opportunity to observe.

thatsub -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 1:15:41 PM)
I wonder how long it would take to reserve such social conditioning. People can be supposedly conditioned and trained to like and accept anything, but for such big social taboos would it even be practical (time wise)?

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 1:17:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact The learned response (what you've been taught) kicks in inside your brain after your instinctive urges. In that horse race, your primal urges (such as sexual) is going to come out in front every time. I'm sorry, Lady P, but I'm not convinced. In the study you and LaT brought up all that was demonstrated was that watching gay porn was correlated with a physical sexual response in these men. 'Correlated' is not the same as 'caused'-it might be that the arousal is a secondary effect caused by changes in testosterone levels because the porn made them angry. I don't know enough about biology to know if that's plausible, but in this case I'm pretty sure that neither do the biologists :P I know it's intellectually satisfying to say 'homophobes think they hate gay sex because they've been conditioned to hide the fact that they are aroused by it' but that hasn't been demonstrated by the study-it could also be 'homophobes react sexually to stimuli which anger them'-there's no evidence that hot gay bumloving is a 'primal urge', in your words, for these men...

Jeffff -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 1:17:49 PM)
I agree with that but I am a solid hetero sexual. If the blockage was removed from my brain, would I become bi? Is it "blockage"? I was a sadist waiting to happen. I don't think I am a gay man waiting to happen.

LadyPact -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 1:21:14 PM)
VC, it would be very interesting if the same type of study could be done with women as subjects. That may eliminate the testosterone/anger theory. Why don't kinky people get more funding for stuff like this? Oh. Right. Cause we'd have too much fun doing it.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Mixed signals (6/29/2010 1:29:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact VC, it would be very interesting if the same type of study could be done with women as subjects. That may eliminate the testosterone/anger theory. I picked testosterone because I know it has something or other to do with both arousal and anger, but the reality is it could be any chemical reaction-I'm pretty sure we don't know enough about human biology to tell the difference between arousal from primal urges and arousal as a secondary effect of some other process in the body. The point is, saying 'these two things happen at the same time' (porn and arousal) is not sufficient to say 'the porn has directly caused the arousal as a result of a primal urge'.

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