RE: Leaders of the community

RE: Leaders of the community (Full Version)

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allthatjaz -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 6:45:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RCdc quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz Scene leadership is a little piece of fame in a very small pond. The real scene leadership comes from the sort of guys that work behind the curtains of organizations like the Spanner Trust. I'd disagree that these people are leaders. They might be figures of inspiration, or even figureheads but not leaders. They may be leaders to those involved within the organisation, but not to the community as a whole IMO. Much love to Steve and Yourself xxxxx the.dark. Actually your right! I don't follow these people, I respect them, support them and am grateful they exist. These are the people that do a lot of good, especially as a help-line for someone needing legal assistance. So let me think deeper [;)] Leadership within our own existence is actually the only thing that has any bearing on the path we tread. We can absorb advice here and there and we can choose carefully about who we learn from or not. In other words we have a choice of who we follow and how we follow them, our own choices in what we take on board and what we discard. The thread is very much about our learning curb into the world of BDSM and how we decide or not, how inspired we are by a certain characters who have perhaps done something notable within the BDSM world. This could go either way. We can look at people like Midori, Newashi or even someone like Derek Cohen and see the inspiration they have brought into so many peoples homes. They clearly have their own fan clubs! I, on the other hand could look at Stephen or I could even look inwardly at myself. In recent years, every path I have successfully taken has been with him, but I couldn't of done that without my own self will and so when it comes to destiny, I am the leader of all things that are physically and mentally possible within my life. Inspiration is different. We are constantly inspired by others that perhaps shall we say, 'lead the way' in certain activities. Hugs to you both xxx

LadyPact -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 7:49:01 AM)
This might be a bit off track, but I have to wonder how much location and opportunity play a part in this. It's one thing to be in London or Los Angles, where the scene has been firmly established for decades. I think you have to look at motivations.

KnightofMists -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 8:08:20 AM)
Interesting few thoughts coming out of this. Can a leader be a Leader without followers? Can one follow themself? Is a Leader in this community there because he does some things for other that they want. Like put on events, teach classes etc? What if people no longer like or desire the event, class etc... does the person stop being a leader? Is there a difference between Leadership and providing a Service? I have attended a couple occassions where a person was awarded a peice of Leather. One was a Vest and another was a Cap. I will say that though LadyPact's description of how it is done is rather pleasant it is Not univesally done that way. And from those I have talked to that have seen many different ones, they all tend to be alittle different in approaches. But it does have two things in common. They talk about what the person has DONE and Who the person IS in the eyes of the people that are giving him the piece of Leather. It seems to me that we see Leadership from two veins... for what they DO and for who they ARE.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 8:12:09 AM)
LadyPact, Uh, you really going to say good things about "all" of LA LadyPact? REALLY In front of me?

windchymes -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 8:16:15 AM)
Just because someone is considered a "leader" doesn't mean they are a GOOD leader, or that they are bringing something beneficial to those who are following them. Examples that come to mind are David Koresh, Jim Jones, Rev. Moon, Adolph Hitler..... In that vein, I also agree that just because no one is following doesn't mean that good leadership qualities don't exist in that person's character.

RCdc -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 8:17:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists I have attended a couple occassions where a person was awarded a peice of Leather. One was a Vest and another was a Cap. I will say that though LadyPact's description of how it is done is rather pleasant it is Not univesally done that way. And from those I have talked to that have seen many different ones, they all tend to be alittle different in approaches. But it does have two things in common. They talk about what the person has DONE and Who the person IS in the eyes of the people that are giving him the piece of Leather. It seems to me that we see Leadership from two veins... for what they DO and for who they ARE There is a leather family here in the UK who have organised events and held workshops at events etc and who stand out in the 'community' - well they do to me but that could be because I know and have a deep affection for someone who was earning their leathers with them. Now for me, they are fantastic role models and people whom I admire. To those earning their leathers or who serve them, they are probably fantastic leaders. Is it serving the community or leading by example? Tough call and I don't know where I stand on that. the.dark.

KnightofMists -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 8:26:31 AM)
maybe is alittle of both.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 8:38:25 AM)
People who Get Shit Done, People who Walk Their Talk, People who Create and Not Destroy. It's true that 20% of the people do 80% of the work, but even amongst those 20% of people, a lot of them are still lazy flakes who want the glory and are incapable of actually being dependable.

Missokyst -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 8:51:18 AM)
Actually they were good at leading. They successfully convinced a group of people that their ideology was correct, or the path to follow for what ever they were seeking. You can be a good leader regardless of whether or not the world sees you as evil. What this says to me is there are a lot of people who are accustomed to being led. quote: ORIGINAL: windchymes Just because someone is considered a "leader" doesn't mean they are a GOOD leader, or that they are bringing something beneficial to those who are following them. Examples that come to mind are David Koresh, Jim Jones, Rev. Moon, Adolph Hitler..... In that vein, I also agree that just because no one is following doesn't mean that good leadership qualities don't exist in that person's character.

LadyPact -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 8:54:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael LadyPact, Uh, you really going to say good things about "all" of LA LadyPact? REALLY In front of me? Nope. At the same time, are you going to sit there and say bad things about EVERYONE involved in the leather community in front of Me? I guess it works both ways, doesn't it?

MsDDom -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 9:03:00 AM)
...you pose a great question, KnightofMist as I am still observing the community being new to participating--that is new to participating publicly in the community, not to the lifestyle. What I am finding is that some of the "leaders" do lack character, integrity and honor...things I look for in leadership. On the flip side of that, those who are NOT leaders are the ones who possess those "items" I listed. I figure it is simple, those things that make one a leader in vanilla society should equally be the same in the lifestyle. Problem is, humans themselves...if they are "no good", then they will be no good in either "world" they participate in. JMHO...

KnightofMists -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 9:05:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst Actually they were good at leading. They successfully convinced a group of people that their ideology was correct, or the path to follow for what ever they were seeking. You can be a good leader regardless of whether or not the world sees you as evil. What this says to me is there are a lot of people who are accustomed to being led. quote: ORIGINAL: windchymes Just because someone is considered a "leader" doesn't mean they are a GOOD leader, or that they are bringing something beneficial to those who are following them. Examples that come to mind are David Koresh, Jim Jones, Rev. Moon, Adolph Hitler..... In that vein, I also agree that just because no one is following doesn't mean that good leadership qualities don't exist in that person's character. Yes..... some individuals have been very good at getting people to follow them. However, in many of those same cases those individuals failed to deliver on what they aspired to that prompted so many to follow them. So... getting followers is one thing... but there seems to be other aspects to it as well.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 9:08:03 AM)
~FR~ I have been called a "community leader", "elder", all that stuff. Evil rumours have been spread about my stuck up self! Does that count? Over the last 15+ years of being out in the Detroit community, I have volunteered, fundraised, helped run clubs, run my own club, helped out those that needed it, "mentored" and taught classes in the physical and non physical aspects of bdsm, and essentially gotten the job done. Does that make me a "leader"? I have stuck my head out of the foxhole and called out those that are known abusers. Does that make me a "leader"? I'm just a person who got to help other folks, and still tries when the moment's right. Truly, I do not think that the cat-herding that we do constitutes "leadership". I don't feel that a group of folks who are by their very nature not in the mainstream want or need leaders.

KnightofMists -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 9:10:39 AM)
quote: I don't feel that a group of folks who are by their very nature not in the mainstream want or need leaders. but yet... it seems to be there none the less.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 9:18:04 AM)
Referring back to what LA said, I think that there are many folks who want GLORY and ATTENTION. How glamourous to say I AM A COMMUNITY LEADER. I AM A LEATHER TITLEHOLDER. Yet where are those people when the chips are down? Are they supporting events? Are they doing anything for local fundraisers once they have that sash? It's fun to be the leader, when nothing is required of you! How tiresome to be the person at the end of the night bussing the tables when you showed up early to be certain the equipment was up to par! Leadership is work, leadership is RISK. Leader? Scapegoat!

SimplyMichael -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 9:31:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael LadyPact, Uh, you really going to say good things about "all" of LA LadyPact? REALLY In front of me? Nope. At the same time, are you going to sit there and say bad things about EVERYONE involved in the leather community in front of Me? I guess it works both ways, doesn't it? LadyPact, I hate to break it to you but the more leather people I met, the less respect I have for anyone who wears leather. As for leadership in LA, I don't have respect for much of it. I mean the asshats charge for mentoring...

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 9:33:31 AM)
Okay, did you say CHARGE for MENTORING??? Like, beyond bringing some doughnuts?

leadership527 -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 10:14:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists It seems to me that we see Leadership from two veins... for what they DO and for who they ARE. I'm afraid I'm going to have to stick with a classical view derived from non-BDSM sources. In my eyes, you are a leader if other people are following you. Anyone can be anything in the privacy of their own mind but in order to be something in some sort of objective reality, I'm looking for it to be instantiated in some way. Accordingly, I am not a leader now (of anyone other than Carol). I have been a leader in the past. Who I AM is what enables me to serve that role.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 10:59:29 AM)
There are lots of ways people become leaders in the scene, some good, some bad, most are a blend of both. Just like on the board, there is a division between those who see adults as responsible for the outcomes in their lives and those who dont, entire groups exist divided along the same lines.

leadership527 -> RE: Leaders of the community (6/14/2010 11:08:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael There are lots of ways people become leaders in the scene, some good, some bad, most are a blend of both. Just like on the board, there is a division between those who see adults as responsible for the outcomes in their lives and those who dont, entire groups exist divided along the same lines. I have no opinion on this. As you know, I'm not involved in "the scene" enough to talk intelligently about what goes on there. That's why I stayed out of thread up till the comment I specifically quoted which was a generic comment about leadership, not the scene.

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