Can we understand what we haven't experienced?

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Can we understand what we haven't experienced? - 6/4/2010 1:29:53 AM

SocratesNot

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Can we understand things which we haven't experienced directly?
Maybe through empathy or putting ourselves in their shoes?
Yes?
No...? Then how can any D/s relationship be successful?
If the Dom(me) doesn't understand sub's experience, how can (s)he be a good Dom(me)?
Really, pure Dom(me)s who never switched do not know how it feels to be dominated or controlled.
Then, how can they treat their submissives in a good way, without this knowledge?
Maybe some of the pains and difficulties that the slave has to endure in a relationship are much more intense
than the Master is able to notice from slave's facial expression or direct verbal communication.

Or maybe, the answer is indeed - Yes! We can understand even the things which we haven't experienced.
Does it mean that outsiders can have valid opinions and express valid and meaningful observations
about some types of relationships, even if they have were never been in such relationship?
No?
Then how can the US intervene in all the countries in the world when there is a war or some kind of conflict?
How can the US know what is the best for Serbs, Croats and Muslims in Bosnia,
for Iraqis, for people in Afghanistan etc?

IMO, most of the military interventions of the USA and other developed countries in conflicts in developing countries
did not have very desirable results. But still, in some cases, the outsider can really know even better than insider
because of the blessing of neutrality and ability to reason with cold head.
Not all interventions were failures (though most were)

How can marriage counselors know better about the marriage then spouses? (some of them haven't even been married ever, yet they give advice to people with marriage issues)

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RE: Can we understand what we haven't experienced? - 6/4/2010 6:48:24 AM

kiwisub12

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Shoot - my therapist is a gay male. There aren't too many obvious points of connection there, but he has enabled me to wrought a huge change in my life - for the better need i say?

My Sir was wont to say that he was a woose when it came to pain, but boy, did he love to inflict it. Did he have to understand how bad it felt to be able to gauge its effect? No, observation enabled him to judge its effectiveness.

If you took your original hypothesis just a wee bit further, you could say that there is no way a man could understand a woman, and vica versa, because they are completely different, and therefore we would all be better off with same sex relationships.

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RE: Can we understand what we haven't experienced? - 6/4/2010 8:17:39 AM

pahunkboy

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-- my reply is sometimes.

Sometimes we can.

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RE: Can we understand what we haven't experienced? - 6/4/2010 8:38:02 AM

peppermint

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This is how it works.

I am a mother. I am a female. I have 3 male children. I do not understand all the ins and outs of being male as I have never experienced being male. However, as a MOTHER I can guide and raise my male children. I do not have to male to do so.

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RE: Can we understand what we haven't experienced? - 6/4/2010 9:27:01 AM

Syrox

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I don't have a subby bone in my body, but I do believe that fact doesn't stop me learning and understanding a bit of the mindset that a sub has.. it is possible to learn most things. not always possiblte to understand completely though

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RE: Can we understand what we haven't experienced? - 6/4/2010 9:55:43 AM

DomImus

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I think we can understand and relate to things that we have not experienced first hand particularly the when those who have been there share their experiences with us. I don't think that it's really necessary to spend time on the other side of the kneel to be able to relate to the opposite end of the D/s spectrum although that experience would likely be very valuable. I also think that people can comment in a relevant fashion on relationship models which they themselves have not been a party to. Sometimes looking in from the outside gives you a different perspective that the involved parties are incapable of having. All information is good information. It is only the purpose to which you put that information that can be good or evil.

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RE: Can we understand what we haven't experienced? - 6/4/2010 9:59:54 AM

Syrox

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A lot of it is just plain ol common sense though. they say that to understand a man you have to walk a mile in his shoes. While this is true, walking that mile beside him can also yeild similar results.. other people have experiences they are happy to share in places like this.. you would do worse than to pick up bits and pieces from them aswell/

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RE: Can we understand what we haven't experienced? - 6/4/2010 10:10:56 AM

SocratesNot

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quote:

If you took your original hypothesis just a wee bit further, you could say that there is no way a man could understand a woman, and vica versa, because they are completely different, and therefore we would all be better off with same sex relationships.

Yes, you are right. But my personal opinion is that we CAN understand things we haven't experienced.
This thread is mainly a reaction to some people's statement that I shouldn't comment on some relationships because I haven't experienced them.

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RE: Can we understand what we haven't experienced? - 6/4/2010 10:13:35 AM

LadyPact

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You're not getting the easy out with Me. There is a difference between empathy and sympathy.

I can feel what I feel as a sadist and flip it to the opposite to understand what a masochist feels. I know that it is very similar in the soul. Without either experience, I have no clue.

In your case, you fear too much.

That fear has blinded you to what you can not see.

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RE: Can we understand what we haven't experienced? - 6/4/2010 10:21:32 AM

reynardfox

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You really need to read kant's critique of pure reason and being and nothingness, before covering satre and his fairly discredited existentialist routine which is where this is going. The US intervenes when and where it feels it's interests are threatened and for no other reason whatsoever, it also does not withdraw until the criteria for that intervention are met. Not one dollar, not one bullet and not one life is spent without an objective being met. If you see the US military as some bumbling giant lurching from one debacle to the next, you are not seeing the picture at all.
From the suez crisis, where the US Military confronted Britain and France militarily in the field and at sea and in the air, it has been apparent that whatever the pretext that the US has been following an agenda and having events unfold in a way that accords to pentagon dicatates, with nothing to do with the UN or anyone else.
The facts are that you have no facts, there are none available to you, you base your sweeping statements on the blithe ignorance into which we have all been led.
How naive would we all need to be, how innocent and how utterly childlike would our mentality be, if we assumed that we know what the fuck is going on?
There are wheels within wheels and everything in this world whether you like it or not, is on a need to know basis, and very few need to know.
The great game played by the world powers in the last century around persia was a great example of how no one knows what's going on until it no longer matters, maybe one day we will know what is going on now, but it's futile to pretend that we do. The sad thing is that we always vote for people whowe trust not to tell us

< Message edited by reynardfox -- 6/4/2010 10:22:14 AM >

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RE: Can we understand what we haven't experienced? - 6/4/2010 12:30:52 PM

lazarus1983

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Some things can be understood, some people's viewpoints are long enough to reach a different shore.

But on the flipside, there are some things, some experiences, that are impossible to understand unless you've been through them.

A common example is the men versus women. I will never ever assume that I know what it's like to be a woman living in this world. Doesn't matter how long I live and how much wisdom and experience I accrue, I will never truly know, and I would never insult a woman by pretending that I do. And of course, women can never truly know what it's like to be a man in this world.

Another good example is my situation. Friends that I talk to can never truly understand what it's like to work in a prison as I have. They can't understand why I don't just kill every murderer and rapist and whatnot. They certainly don't understand how I can talk to them with civility, and even joke with them. They just don't understand because they are not there. No amount of watching Dateline: Lockup can help them understand.

In our training academy, instructors do their best to tell students what it's like to be a Housing Unit officer all alone with 70 inmates. They try to explain, to relate, to get across that feeling. But until you're in that role, until you're standing at the Officer's Station with a dayroom full of inmates, you just don't know. There's just no way to prepare a person for that until you're there. Then you're either comfortable in that position or you're not. I had one guy last three days out of the Academy and quit.

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RE: Can we understand what we haven't experienced? - 6/4/2010 12:49:01 PM

laurell3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

If you took your original hypothesis just a wee bit further, you could say that there is no way a man could understand a woman, and vica versa, because they are completely different, and therefore we would all be better off with same sex relationships.

Yes, you are right. But my personal opinion is that we CAN understand things we haven't experienced.
This thread is mainly a reaction to some people's statement that I shouldn't comment on some relationships because I haven't experienced them.

But you aren't merely commenting on them, you are attempting to sell your unexperienced, uninformed opinion and knee-jerk reactions as gospel.

Almost everyone here says for example "well I think if it was me X would be the most likely response, but I don't know for sure" or things to that effect. What you do is say "all of x things are bad" "all subs have low self-esteem" "all switches are just into kink" "no d/s relationships exist between same sex people that aren't gay or bi".....you get the picture? Those extreme fanatic viewpoints would get you called on EVEN if you had experience. They're bullshit, plain and simple. The problem is confounded by the fact that you seem to have no ability to detect social cues in this medium and just flutter around changing your opinion from one extreme to something equally silly based on who the poster is. Stop typing until you know for sure that what you are saying really is your belief and is based on something other than fear and listen to EVERYONE.

I do disagree that someone that has only been a dominant can EVER really know what it's like to be a submissive and vice versa. Just as I will never know what it's like to be male. Can they know enough to get the picture and be safe and make it work? Of course, that's what relationships are about. But really know the emotions and feelings, no. Does that mean they can't comment on it? Of course not, but the person that has been there and done it's opinion will certainly carry more weight if it's a rational one.

SN, you should know by know that the answer to 90% of the questions you ask here is "it really depends on your relationship and what the two of you agree on"...having had NO relationships at all other than what seems to be a horrible online experience, you cannot say "this is true about bdsm and d/s" which you do ALL the time.

Ease up, stop reacting out of fear and learn. I think there are more and a few people here willing to cut you the slack and give you the time. However, coming to this place where we all accept this unusual thing about each other and tossing out extremes and telling us all what we are or are not, isn't going well for you. Why would it? How can you possibly think it would? I really don't need to you tell me about my self-esteem or what is abusive. I promise you that you really don't know. I also promise you that the majority of these fears you are expressing are unfounded.

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