RE: Case for Compulsory Voting

RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/4/2010 9:10:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Silence8 Why can't we vote online? Works for the stock market. There should be referendums on all major legislation, maybe even court cases. Slowly phase out representatives. All they represent is representation (money). The problem is validation there too. These electronic voting machines have been proven by hackers to take less than 10 minutes to hack into and make the vote anything you want. It all has to be done by numbered paper with matching entries. ANYTHING else can be manipulated and without a trace! That is the whole point. Create an undisputable trail. You keep one copy and they get the other for everything. Need a recount? They had better match because the people would not have the resources to manipulate the count, rogues on the other hand would and we would see it immediately.

TheHeretic -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/4/2010 6:07:38 PM)
This might be the dumbest idea I've ever seen presented in these forums, Muse.

Musicmystery -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/5/2010 10:01:27 AM)
Thank you for that carefully reasoned response. I especially admired your thorough point by point refutation of Galston's observation. Truly, a masterful outpouring of logic and insight. You are now ready to start your own talk radio/TV show.

TheHeretic -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/5/2010 10:30:19 AM)
You're welcome. Maybe you should buy a TV, and figure out what matters to hoi polloi before you go supporting a mandate on them to participate in politics. As it stands now, we generally just elect the taller one. Being forced to reach out to the ignorant and disengaged only prods politicians and the media farther towards doing it on an American Idol format.

Musicmystery -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/5/2010 10:32:34 AM)
Don't be silly--it's "further," not "farther..." [:D] Now, a ban on TV......

TheHeretic -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/5/2010 11:11:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Now, a ban on TV...... You're getting pretty authoritarian here, Muse. Maybe next you'll be suggesting that there only be one name on that mandatory ballot?

Musicmystery -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/5/2010 11:25:28 AM)
Saw that one coming. But come on--it's those fascist TV pukes who are ruining our country, crashing our "borders" with their incessant lying ads we all know are lies (or at least exaggerations or half-truths), programming minds with obnoxious entertainers who pretend they are news pundits (oh, absolutely, I include the liberal ones here with the conservative ones---if you're going to constantly interrupt the answer, you aren't truthfully asking the question, so it's not truly an interview), throwing mindless banality channel after channel as if entertaining, and in the case of cable, having the audacity to charge for it as well! Throw off the shackles! Kill the TV infiltrators who hate democracy and freedom! Send them your tea bags and your foreskins! Pass an 80% tax on commentators and advertisements. Make it retroactive to the invention of television. And above all--Kill reality shows! Death to contrived reality! Viva the Disillusionary Party! Remember--if you're disillusioned, vote this November! Paid for by no one at all. The Disillionary Party knows the value of a buck.

Silence8 -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/8/2010 8:59:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StoicSadist quote: ORIGINAL: Silence8 Why can't we vote online? Works for the stock market. There should be referendums on all major legislation, maybe even court cases. Slowly phase out representatives. All they represent is representation (money). Too many ways to commit fraud without having to properly identify yourself. And if people had to carry something like an RSA hybrid identifier to authenicate, you could imagine the reaction of the "big brother conspiracy" theorists.....but it would be easier.....Hell, I'd like to be able to grocery shop online... ...then why does it work for the stock market? (...Notably, I get this same response every time I suggest this...)

LadyEllen -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/9/2010 5:21:13 AM)
The problem with having the people en masse replace elected representatives lies in the coherence and coherent understanding of policy, even if we could overcome the technological challenge on a national scale, especially that challenge in a nation as large as the US. Not that it might not be any worse than today, but if the electorate, each member thereof, were not aware of the impact of one policy on another and the impact of changes to anything on other areas, chaos and bankruptcy should ensue quite readily because of the intricacies and interdependences of various policy areas, their financing, their execution and their relationships with past policy and present circumstances on a national and international basis. And this without mentioning that many policy areas involve great complexity in themselves into which any novice should fear to tread. This is the benefit, despite the many obvious and well versed disadvantages, of the political party which can draw on a wide knowledge base including experts in every field, to form coherent approaches to policy and to field candidates for election who might have a better chance of comprehending what it is they are to do and why and how this fits in with the bigger picture. E

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/9/2010 10:50:51 AM)
I think the fundamental problem is that people don't care enough about the big society.

Moonhead -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/9/2010 1:59:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 I think the fundamental problem is that people don't care enough about the big society. Precisely. A lot of fuckwits who spend all their time whining about the government wouldn't have a clue who to vote for if their lives depended on it. Forcing fuckwits like that to vote is a bad idea however you dress it up. I'd much rather Class War were causing fights at protests than being dragged into a polling booth every election. They'd only deface their voting slips in any case.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/9/2010 2:20:05 PM)
I could half respect the incumbent governments plans if they weren't so focused on blaming the previous government (all too familiar and the vision in my head exists that this will be the case during their entire time). I know the debt crisis is a big thing but to harp on about it as Osborne does only convinces me this government is backwards looking and is very similar to how Labour were blaming everything on the Tories. What of this new politics where we are where we are and must move forward? I was watching one of Osborne's minions in the commons the other day and he actually congratulated one of the elder Tories for the economic situation which existed in the eighties; so this is where we are headed get your time machine fired up. It was as if what the country elected New Labour for had been forgotten in an instant. Surely these people realise there is a reason they were voted out of power? Why also is there still an MP floating about that was around as a front bench MP during the eighties? This is getting really interesting because those that think there is no clear choice between the major parties will soon realise there is. One wants the bulk of the debt dealt with through cuts and taxation and one wants it through cuts alone. They will give only lip service to those in society which are the poorest and depend on government services more.

Moonhead -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/9/2010 2:37:18 PM)
That's the depressing thing about this: they think as a decade has passed everybody's going to have forgotten all of that. Frankly, if this country's electorate is that stupid, they don't deserve any better.

Moonhead -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/9/2010 2:38:28 PM)
Still, at least they've queered the Libdem's hopes of being taken seriously as a left leaning party ever again, so I'm sure there's some with on display at least.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/9/2010 2:48:21 PM)
Yes the Liberal Democrats are going to find it very hard to justify their power grab, it may be the end of their credibility altogether. Although as you say people are willing to forget quickly. It's important for all parties to have a clear mission statement, I'm not sure what voting Liberal Democrat would get me in future. They were desperate for some of the action and the disappointment of actually doing worse in the election than last time around must have got them thinking it was never going to happen legitimately and they'd always be someone's bitch whether it be Labour or the Conservatives. They should have opted for supply of confidence as then they'd have remained centre leftish kindof. ah seduced by power.

Moonhead -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/9/2010 2:56:17 PM)
I won't be voting for the fuckers again, put it that way. Hopefully labour can find somebody halfway credible and vaguely left leaning to head the party next, rather than Milliband or Mandelson. There's some disturbing talk about the Beeb being privatised at the moment. WTF? I didn't think it was publically owned.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/9/2010 3:07:15 PM)
I don't know how their charter works but a lot of media organisations have been complaining about the popularity and influence of the BBC. I suppose such media organisations are getting payback for their support of the Tories during the election. You can only change it when their charter is up for review is my understanding of how the organisation works i.e. it is supposed to have an independent board. Probably you could sell off elements of the BBC's business arm but entities such as this are how it's reduces how much we pay for the licence for the more expensive programming. It's not very joint up thinking. It's like getting rid of the buying power of entities such as Becta, is Microsoft suddenly going to drop its prices for items bought by individual education authorities? We'll pay more for less because the thinking is two dimensional.

Moonhead -> RE: Case for Compulsory Voting (6/9/2010 3:10:47 PM)
Well, that is what happened with all of the privatisation deals from the '80s and '90s, so it's worryingly convincing.

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