RE: Update on Prom

RE: Update on Prom (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 9:01:45 PM)
Actually the school administrators may very well be criminally and civilly liable in this matter. If any school funds were spent then it is fraud. If it was a knowing attempt to evade the judge's ruling then it is contempt of court. Simply knowing the secret "prom" was being organized may be a violation of their agreement with the court. As well as any involvement by school officials makes this a 14th amendment violation and that means big civil problems for the school district.

domiguy -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 9:09:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Actually the school administrators may very well be criminally and civilly liable in this matter. If any school funds were spent then it is fraud. If it was a knowing attempt to evade the judge's ruling then it is contempt of court. Simply knowing the secret "prom" was being organized may be a violation of their agreement with the court. As well as any involvement by school officials makes this a 14th amendment violation and that means big civil problems for the school district. You can only hope that this is the case and a huge lawsuit is in the works. Backwoods, motherfuckin, redneck pieces of shit. It would be grand if they have to rename Mississippi lesboland. I might actually visit.

Silence8 -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 9:22:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl As part of a preliminary ruling, a judge decided that McMillen was allowed to bring a girl as a date. The judge did not order the school to reinstate the prom because it was understood that McMillen would be invited to a prom being held by parents of her Itawamba classmates. Instead, that prom was canceled and was replaced with the sparsely attended country club event. So the school lied and deceived the girl, and you are ok with that? If I've read the story right, the school sponsored prom was cancelled and replaced with a prom sponsored and paid for by parents of students, a private party. Basically everything after cancellation of the prom appears to be nothing more than social ostracization by other students and their parents. And while I'm not "okay with that" I also don't think it's a crime to have a private party and not invite someone you don't like. The 'private party' game isn't even veiled. Imagine you're in English class, and you have a creative writing assignment, and you submit, as your own original creative writing, a print-out of 'A Tale of Two Cities'. And over where it says 'Charles Dickens' you put a large 'X', beside which you write your own name with a magic marker. This is what is happening with the so-called 'privatization' of this party.

belladevine -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 9:44:23 PM)
I am not suprised that this happened in Mississippi. That state is still combating very basic human rights issues. I think a lot of people in that state still think slavery is acceptable. Many of the states in the deep south still have a very caveman like mentality. Why do so many drive around with confederate flags draped all over their vehicles? Some in the south don't realize that the civil war is over and they also don't know they lost the war. Maybe they don't know they lost the war because the Mississippi education system is one of the worst in the country and many there can't read. I have personally experienced prejudice from southern people simply because I told them I was from Pennsylvania. Honestly I don't really mind being called a yankee but being cut out of an employment oppurtinity for being a yankee is really, really bad. It would not surprise me if the tea partiers, the yankees, and the gays, and the blacks and every other oppressed person in this country all broke out in frenzied war all over again. Perhaps when all the Americans start fighting each other instead of the rest of the world the world will be a better place. I don't know though. Gays at the prom don't really seem that important to me. I think they should be grateful for the education....if they can get it.

Elisabella -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 10:23:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Silence8 The 'private party' game isn't even veiled. Imagine you're in English class, and you have a creative writing assignment, and you submit, as your own original creative writing, a print-out of 'A Tale of Two Cities'. And over where it says 'Charles Dickens' you put a large 'X', beside which you write your own name with a magic marker. This is what is happening with the so-called 'privatization' of this party. Like I said, it's shady, but what do you do, rule that it's unlawful for a school to cancel prom?

rulemylife -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 10:35:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella This is fucking ridiculous. I feel bad for the girl, I really do, but since when does anyone have a "right" to a prom? It's called discrimination.

Silence8 -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 10:41:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: Silence8 The 'private party' game isn't even veiled. Imagine you're in English class, and you have a creative writing assignment, and you submit, as your own original creative writing, a print-out of 'A Tale of Two Cities'. And over where it says 'Charles Dickens' you put a large 'X', beside which you write your own name with a magic marker. This is what is happening with the so-called 'privatization' of this party. Like I said, it's shady, but what do you do, rule that it's unlawful for a school to cancel prom? There's the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law. There also the letter of reality, and the spirit of reality. This what my last post essentially addresses. I'm not a lawyer, but I imagine there's a letter of the law that can address the spirit of reality. But that's not to say that legal action is the best course in this case. It's easy to forget that culture isn't necessarily public. Though most of what's truly valuable defies privatization, like, you know, sunshine.

Elisabella -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 10:53:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Silence8 There's the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law. There also the letter of reality, and the spirit of reality. This what my last post essentially addresses. I'm not a lawyer, but I imagine there's a letter of the law that can address the spirit of reality. But that's not to say that legal action is the best course in this case. It's easy to forget that culture isn't necessarily public. Though most of what's truly valuable defies privatization, like, you know, sunshine. Indeed. The closest parallel and precedent I can think of would be the schools that closed during segregation that were forced to reopen, but even that is shaky ground because the fundamental job of a school is to provide education, which those schools did not do, not to provide entertainment.

DomKen -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 10:57:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: Silence8 There's the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law. There also the letter of reality, and the spirit of reality. This what my last post essentially addresses. I'm not a lawyer, but I imagine there's a letter of the law that can address the spirit of reality. But that's not to say that legal action is the best course in this case. It's easy to forget that culture isn't necessarily public. Though most of what's truly valuable defies privatization, like, you know, sunshine. Indeed. The closest parallel and precedent I can think of would be the schools that closed during segregation that were forced to reopen, but even that is shaky ground because the fundamental job of a school is to provide education, which those schools did not do, not to provide entertainment. if this were done strictly by people not employed by teh school district it is bigot and slimy but legal. If any school employee had anything to do with it then it gets into Brown v Board and the school would be in huge trouble.

domiguy -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 10:59:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: Silence8 There's the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law. There also the letter of reality, and the spirit of reality. This what my last post essentially addresses. I'm not a lawyer, but I imagine there's a letter of the law that can address the spirit of reality. But that's not to say that legal action is the best course in this case. It's easy to forget that culture isn't necessarily public. Though most of what's truly valuable defies privatization, like, you know, sunshine. Indeed. The closest parallel and precedent I can think of would be the schools that closed during segregation that were forced to reopen, but even that is shaky ground because the fundamental job of a school is to provide education, which those schools did not do, not to provide entertainment. However when schools do provide entertainment via proms, sports, clubs and such they are then forced to abide by the ruling of the court. We all know that the only reason kids go to school is to get an education.

Elisabella -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 10:59:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy However when schools do provide entertainment via proms, sports, clubs and such they are then forced to abide by the ruling of the court. We all know that the only reason kids go to school is to get an education. Indeed, but the problem isn't that they were providing entertainment, but that they chose not to.

pissthirstysub -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 11:17:11 PM)
I have a hard time believing that such a large sham could continue without school officials knowing anything. I think it is also a sad thing that appearantly they did not want the students with learning disabilities to go to the other prom either.

domiguy -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 11:23:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy However when schools do provide entertainment via proms, sports, clubs and such they are then forced to abide by the ruling of the court. We all know that the only reason kids go to school is to get an education. Indeed, but the problem isn't that they were providing entertainment, but that they chose not to. Wow....The problem is that they were providing entertainment then they chose not to for the sole reason of not letting a lesbian participate. Then it appears that there might be the possibility that they tried to end run the ruling of the court by holding a "private" prom. actually two proms. One for the lesbians and the L.D. and another prom held for everyone that was "normal." I hope they can find a way to link the school to these events. I hope that the heads of the adults that allowed these events to transpire roll. I hope they rename the shithole that is Mississippi Lesboland.

tazzygirl -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 11:26:08 PM)
Exactly! If the school did, then they not only violated the girl's rights, but also the Disability act. Man, this keeps "potentially" getting deeper and deeper. I truly wonder if, in retrospect, they feel they were "right".

Elisabella -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 11:33:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Wow....The problem is that they were providing entertainment then they chose not to for the sole reason of not letting a lesbian participate. Then it appears that there might be the possibility that they tried to end run the ruling of the court by holding a "private" prom. actually two proms. One for the lesbians and the L.D. and another prom held for everyone that was "normal." I hope they can find a way to link the school to these events. I hope that the heads of the adults that allowed these events to transpire roll. I hope they rename the shithole that is Mississippi Lesboland. Alternatively you could say that since the school knew that not every student would be invited to the private prom-like party, they threw an alternate event that was open to everyone, and the fact that only 7 people showed up just means that the rest of the students had a better party to go to.

PilotPTK -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 11:40:30 PM)
Ethically, shame on the school for even making this a news story. They've turned this girls sexual choice into a much bigger 'deal' for her and the other students than her attending the prom in a tux with a girlfriend would have created. Now - the private party... Yep, it sucks. It's also life. I throw parties. I invite those I want and I don't invite those that I don't want. Fair? Nope. But life is far from fair. As long as the school had no direct dealings in the 'private' prom that was setup, managed, and paid for by ?some? parents, then as shitty as it may be, I see no legal issue here. I, frankly, also see no reason for it to continue to be a news story. Welcome to the harsh realities of life - a place where our decisions and choices affect us, even when they shouldn't. Frankly, I wish that our prom would have been setup and paid for by parents. That way, we could have forgot to invite the gang-bangers, drug-dealers and general low-life people that went to school with us. Would have been much more enjoyable than it was.

AquaticSub -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 11:45:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl The parents are teaching their children that its perfectly fine to discriminate against someone as long as you have the money to do so. It's not even about who has money. They are teaching their kids that you can invite and not invite whoever you want as long as you are footing the bill, regardless of it's chips and dip or champagne and a house band. The reaction of those around them will teach them to alter their guest lists.

tazzygirl -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 11:45:48 PM)
I realize what you are saying, but, this goes far deeper than just a "mere" party being thrown by parents. Example.... Were tickets sold? If so, were they sold on school grounds? Did the PTA/PTO/any school club have a position in running, organizing or funding this "party"? I dont see this story going away for a while. And, im glad it isnt. The jock straps and barbie idiots (among others) need to be shown that money doesnt buy you the right to discriminate.

Elisabella -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 11:46:07 PM)
quote: It's not even about who has money. They are teaching their kids that you can invite and not invite whoever you want as long as you are footing the bill, regardless of it's chips and dip or champagne and a house band. Um...I'm not sure what the problem with this is?

AquaticSub -> RE: Update on Prom (4/6/2010 11:47:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: It's not even about who has money. They are teaching their kids that you can invite and not invite whoever you want as long as you are footing the bill, regardless of it's chips and dip or champagne and a house band. Um...I'm not sure what the problem with this is? Did I say I had a problem with it?

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