Out of the pan and into the .... (Full Version)

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Thadius -> Out of the pan and into the .... (3/24/2010 9:17:05 PM)

I am curious to what folks around here think of who the President replaced his old spiritual leader (Rev. Jeremiah Wright) with. His name is Rev. Jim Wallis.

Is it just another strange coincidence that the good Rev. was also a leader of the SDS here in Michigan? Should folks be concerned that he is also a policy advisor to the President? Why is it that our President seems to surround himself with folks that have "interesting" beliefs?

It is easy enough to read up on his magazine, so I will let you make your own judgements based on your own research. A couple quick tidbits, Wallis' magazine actively lobbied for communist regimes that seized power in Latin America in the late 1970s, including the Sandinista dictatorship in Nicaragua. Sojourners in the 1980s was a fierce opponent of the U.S. nuclear buildup, claiming the policy was "an intolerable evil" irreconcilably at odds with Christianity.

Let's look at some of the fun stuff shall we. In his book " Agenda for Biblical People he states that the US is "the great power, the great seducer, the great captor and destroyer of human life, the great master of humanity and history in its totalitarian claims and designs."

I look forward to your comments.
Thadius



Kirata -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/24/2010 9:36:57 PM)

Well one thing that might be said is, "When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends."

K.



TheHeretic -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/24/2010 9:48:17 PM)

I'll actually take that over some fundie who would be all over the antichrist thread.  I'll be much more comfortable with a proper opposition to his policies in Congress, though.



Kirata -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/24/2010 9:50:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I'll actually take that over some fundie

I lean more toward the view that Fundies come in all shapes and sizes, and one is as bad as another.

K.



DomKen -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/24/2010 11:02:02 PM)

Jim Wallis is objectionable? Beyond the fact that he stood up to Glenn Beck what's the beef? Are Americans no longer allowed to be principled pacifists?

We've got right wingers threatening and commiting terrorism because they lost an election and we're somehow supposed to be worried by a peacenik? The right wing has got to stop demonizing viewpoints they don't agree with.



tazzygirl -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/25/2010 1:58:27 AM)

Christian author and social justice advocate Rev. Jim Wallis appeared on "Countdown with Keith Olbermann" Friday evening to talk about Glenn Beck's recent attack on churches and religious leaders who preach social justice.

Last week, Beck, a Mormon, told his fans to scour their churches for any mention of social justice or economic justice. He said that both terms are "code words" that were used by Nazis and Communists and that if a church preached either, one should "run as fast as you can!"

Wallis told "Countdown" guest host Lawrence O'Donnell that not only are Beck's claims false, they're at odds with the teachings of Jesus. Contrary to Beck's claims that social justice is a perversion of the gospel, Wallis told O'Donnell that helping the poor is at the heart of the gospel.

quote:

Wallis: "The God of the Bible is the God of justice. Though the poor are in the center of God's concern... Poverty breaks the heart of God. And it breaks the heart of the church. So, this is about Christians who may disagree on politics. Republicans, Democrats, it doesn't matter. Left or right. We have different views on the role of government. Doesn't matter, But justice is integral to the gospel. And across the spectrum, Christians are saying Glenn Beck got it wrong."


Wallis told O'Donnell that Mormon leaders have called him to apologize for Beck's comments. He hopes that Beck will call him to apologize and talk about social justice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/12/rev-jim-wallis-glenn-beck_n_497715.html

I can understand why Beck is upset... i dont agree.



housesub4you -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/25/2010 3:36:07 AM)

But it is all they now how to do



vincentML -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/25/2010 4:22:24 AM)

Code words give Beck a convenient deniability for his conspiracies. He hints at lurking horrors but can say he was misunderstood when he is called upon to justify his fantasies.



eyesopened -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/25/2010 4:57:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Last week, Beck, a Mormon, told his fans to scour their churches for any mention of social justice or economic justice. He said that both terms are "code words" that were used by Nazis and Communists and that if a church preached either, one should "run as fast as you can!"

Wallis told "Countdown" guest host Lawrence O'Donnell that not only are Beck's claims false, they're at odds with the teachings of Jesus. Contrary to Beck's claims that social justice is a perversion of the gospel, Wallis told O'Donnell that helping the poor is at the heart of the gospel.

Wallis told O'Donnell that Mormon leaders have called him to apologize for Beck's comments. He hopes that Beck will call him to apologize and talk about social justice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/12/rev-jim-wallis-glenn-beck_n_497715.html

I can understand why Beck is upset... i dont agree.


Not sure why the Mormon church would say that.  According to their own teachings in thier own Leader's Guide to Welfare:

Care for Others
During His mortal ministry, the Savior walked among the poor, the sick, and the distressed, min­istering to their needs and bless­ing them with healing and hope.  He taught His disciples to do the same.  Reaching out to those in distress is a central characteristic of the disciples of Jesus Christ (see John 13:35).
 
In our day the Lord has again commanded   His people to care for the poor and needy.  He said, “Behold, I say unto you, that ye must visit the poor and the needy and administer to their relief” (D&C 44:6).  Church members are encouraged to give personal compassionate service to those in need.  They should be “anx­iously engaged in a good cause,” serving without being asked or assigned (see D&C 58:26–27).
The Lord has described His way for caring for the poor and needy.  He instructed the Saints to “impart of your substance unto the poor, ...and [it] shall be laid before the bishop ...[and] shall be kept in my storehouse, to ad-minister to the poor and the needy” (D&C 42:31, 34).
The Lord further explained that these offerings should include members’ talents. These talents are “to be cast into the Lord’s storehouse, ...every man seek­ing the interest of his neighbor, and doing all things with an eye single to the glory of God” (D&C 82:18–19).
The Lord’s storehouse is not limited to a building used to distribute food to the poor.  It includes the faithful offerings of time, talents, compassion, materials, and financial means of faithful members given to the bishop to care for the poor and needy.  The Lord’s storehouse, then, exists in each ward.  The bishop is the agent of the Lord’s storehouse.

http://www.providentliving.org/welfare/pdf/English_PITLW08257_000COMP.pdf



pahunkboy -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/25/2010 6:48:29 AM)

I did not think Wright was bad.

He just had an interesting rant over the grid.   I think the criticism over this was misplaced.



Kirata -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/25/2010 2:44:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Jim Wallis is objectionable?

I haven't really looked into him. I was simply making the observation (in response to Heretic) that in my opinion "fundie" types are not limited to the sphere of religion.

K.



slvemike4u -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/25/2010 2:56:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I did not think Wright was bad.

He just had an interesting rant over the grid.   I think the criticism over this was misplaced.

Please take this in the spirit it was intended ie: seriously...You are an interesting guy pa,you maintain ,it seems at all times and on almost all subjects,the ability to surprise and mystify me.And I like that....and in this case I happen to agree with you .Wright,certainly from my viewpoint was over the top and just a little full of shit....but the firestorm raised was totally out of proportion to reality....a bombastic and fiery preacher is not exactly new nor earth shattering .



LadyEllen -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/25/2010 3:13:35 PM)

Its bizarre to me that the President should have a pastor and that it should be thought necessary electorally for him to have one and for it to be such an apparently important matter.

Vive la difference I guess; anyone here who aspired to be PM and had a pastor would be looked at askance, regardless of who that pastor might be.

E



Moonhead -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/25/2010 3:16:27 PM)

That said, Lady E, Blair always made a very big deal of his wannabe Catholic thing, didn't he?



LadyEllen -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/25/2010 3:18:14 PM)

He did eventually MH, once he'd got into the whole regime change in Iraq mindset. I dont recall it being mentioned prior to that and all we knew was he was CofE and she was Catholic, but thats not an overly unusual thing.

E



pahunkboy -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/25/2010 3:22:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I did not think Wright was bad.

He just had an interesting rant over the grid.   I think the criticism over this was misplaced.

Please take this in the spirit it was intended ie: seriously...You are an interesting guy pa,you maintain ,it seems at all times and on almost all subjects,the ability to surprise and mystify me.And I like that....and in this case I happen to agree with you .Wright,certainly from my viewpoint was over the top and just a little full of shit....but the firestorm raised was totally out of proportion to reality....a bombastic and fiery preacher is not exactly new nor earth shattering .



...even at my church- when I went. I did not always agree with the lecture.

The very essence of religion- is the some/-others/ or - many - will disagree with it.

You are correct- fiery preachers have been with us a long time.

I paid attention to this during the 2008 primary- where PA has a long cycle.  I was working a phone bank during that time. So- I did look to see who was saying what about things.

:-)





DomKen -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/25/2010 4:06:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Jim Wallis is objectionable?

I haven't really looked into him. I was simply making the observation (in response to Heretic) that in my opinion "fundie" types are not limited to the sphere of religion.

K.

Sorry my post was not meant specifically for you. I forgot to mark it a FR.



Moonhead -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/25/2010 4:19:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

He did eventually MH, once he'd got into the whole regime change in Iraq mindset. I dont recall it being mentioned prior to that and all we knew was he was CofE and she was Catholic, but thats not an overly unusual thing.

E

It isn't, but iirc he was talking God talk quite a bit in the run up to the '97 election. He always struck me as the sort of high Anglican who wishes they were Catholic, to be honest.



Brain -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/25/2010 4:37:31 PM)

I think I saw him on the Colbert Report a couple of days ago and if it was him he sounded like an intelligent and thoughtful man. He said something about, when asked about Glenn Beck by Colbert, if Glenn Beck became the pope his reply was he would leave the Catholic Church. I thought it was a good answer. I didn't find anything on Stephen Colbert’s website but he's also been on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart.
 
http://www.thedailyshow.com/videos/tag/Jim%20Wallis


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Christian author and social justice advocate Rev. Jim Wallis appeared on "Countdown with Keith Olbermann" Friday evening to talk about Glenn Beck's recent attack on churches and religious leaders who preach social justice.

Last week, Beck, a Mormon, told his fans to scour their churches for any mention of social justice or economic justice. He said that both terms are "code words" that were used by Nazis and Communists and that if a church preached either, one should "run as fast as you can!"

Wallis told "Countdown" guest host Lawrence O'Donnell that not only are Beck's claims false, they're at odds with the teachings of Jesus. Contrary to Beck's claims that social justice is a perversion of the gospel, Wallis told O'Donnell that helping the poor is at the heart of the gospel.

quote:

Wallis: "The God of the Bible is the God of justice. Though the poor are in the center of God's concern... Poverty breaks the heart of God. And it breaks the heart of the church. So, this is about Christians who may disagree on politics. Republicans, Democrats, it doesn't matter. Left or right. We have different views on the role of government. Doesn't matter, But justice is integral to the gospel. And across the spectrum, Christians are saying Glenn Beck got it wrong."


Wallis told O'Donnell that Mormon leaders have called him to apologize for Beck's comments. He hopes that Beck will call him to apologize and talk about social justice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/12/rev-jim-wallis-glenn-beck_n_497715.html

I can understand why Beck is upset... i dont agree.



thornhappy -> RE: Out of the pan and into the .... (3/25/2010 5:05:32 PM)

1) the SDS was how long ago?  Back in the '60s, wasn't it?

2) Plenty of people were talking up the Nicaraguans since we were supporting El Salvador's right-wing government, complete with death squads.  At the time we supported just about any country that was nominally anti-communist, no matter how dirty.

3) Plenty of organizations have opposed the nuclear buildup and nuclear war in general, it wasn't unique to him or Sojourners.

4) That book was written in 1976...right after we left Vietnam.



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