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foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 6:32:16 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		ive re-noticed something about myself recently and im wondering if others have the same thing.

in submission skipping along the surface and not doing anything more than reacting to the immediate environment isnt really full submission (for me anyway) - to offer myself i have to open it all up and let someone in on a deeper level.

im likely to wobble massively during the early stages of a relationship, entirely because of this opening up, or as i call it, 'clearing the fog' i have built up around me. 

its the fog im curious about.  this fog cushions a large part of everyday life.  it enables me to function in a blissful way, chaotic and largely random much of the time.  and yet in a relationship it gets in the way.  it becomes armour rather more than anything else, something to hide behind and retreat into.  its become so much part of me that its sometimes more prefferable than opening up.

submission enables me to step out of this fog, submission provides the boundaries, parameters, direction and focus i need (instead of the fog) providing a non-place where boundaries, parameters, direction and focus are unneccessary.

im curious to know if anyone else suffers from The Fog - unlike the horror film, there are no lurking monsters in there, but it is a bit of a monster in its own right i think, its lack of demand seems sometimes prefferable.

im wondering if this fog, or whatever it is, you might have a different name for something similar is what makes that initial step away from youre safe self sufficiency into submission a bit of a struggle emotionally, psychologically or even physically

departing from youre own coping mechanismsn and embracing someone elses' makes that step from where you are to where you will be Under New Management a bit of a struggle sometimes.
.
i wrote this text yesterday:

I dont know if the fog is something to do with what i am. Sort of blind unprocessed response/reaction type of thing.  I dig no deeper into myself than i have to.  But i need to be made to dig deeper.  Submission does that because it provides boundaries and security for me to do so.

so..., am i alone with this fog
* is it something that, to some extent or another, some s'types rely on much of the time to cushion the daily struggles that might otherwise swomp them.
* does it seem prefferable to submission sometimes, even after youve met someone you trust.
* by stepping away from it and into submission is it then that you feel you can start to grow and discover the depths of youreself safely but at no other time.

or am i just a bit of a freak

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 7:01:20 AM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
Status: offline 		You're a freak.
JK

I'm very new, so I'm the last person to give advice, but I do know that for myself, I need to get to a certain place with someone before I can submit. I think it's just a good idea. I was talking to someone, had a few emails, and he finally confessed that he expected me to let him have my hair cut on the first meet. I'm not about to surrender on that level to someone I don't even know. I just can't. I have hair down to my derriere, so my hair is a big deal to me. I'm not about to hand it over to someone on a whim. Not my hair, not my submission.

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 7:14:08 AM   
Dominasola


Posts: 582
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		I think many s-types (myself included) tend to be highly sensitive to external stimuli - large crowds, angry customers...etc - so when we are on our own, we do have to develop these coping mechanisms, as you said.

I'm curious - this fog, is it like a mechanism that dulls your reactions/senses to the external world?  I tried to develop some sort of filter to protect myself from everything that is out there when I was on my own, but was never really successful.  Because of that, I would be in an almost constant state of anxiety as EVERYTHING just set me off.

I'm still trying to work on controlling the anxiety. In fact, I'm finding that now that I'm in a relationship, my Master is trying to help me develop a "fog" against these anxiety-developing stimuli (except for him, of course ) by constantly reminding me things like "whose opinion of you really matters" etc., when I'm faced with situations like degradation at work, etc.

I'm not sure if that is the type of "fog" you experience, but for me, a certain level of it - if focused only on the external world- is actually a good thing even in a relationship.


_____________________________

I have made a ceaseless effort not to ridicule, not to bewail, not to scorn human actions, but to understand them.

—Baruch Spinoza

The measure of a man is what he does with power.

—Pittacus

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 7:29:44 AM   
Nslavu


Posts: 342
Joined: 2/1/2010
Status: offline
quote:

fog cushions a large part of everyday life.  it enables me to function in a blissful way, chaotic and largely random much of the time.  and yet in a relationship it gets in the way.  it becomes armour rather more than anything else, something to hide behind and retreat into.  its become so much part of me that its sometimes more prefferable than opening up.


The masks we wear, keeping up appearances that would betray our true selves .... lots of terms for it, even fog works. 'Getting in the way' in a relationship I would say, is putting it mildly. If there are any advantages in alt lifestyle, this opening up would be one of them.

I think we all have old, perhaps outmoded internal maps of reality that we hang on to in order to operate in society, because they are societal maps/norms that in away makes things smooth in that environment, even if they are counter intuitive and cause angst with the self that really wants to be free and known.

I don't think you're a freak, I think you're just noticing how freaky it is to not be the real you all the time. I suspect that is common among people who realize their true either D or s nature. The masks will probably remain though, as they protect you from those who have no clue who they are and spend most of their time playing the masked game that actually betrays their truth. Unfortunately it becomes a comfort zone though, this masking or fog, and this is what causes it's manifestations to return in a relationship, messing things up. Freaky.

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 9:11:54 AM   
nikkki


Posts: 9
Joined: 2/9/2010
Status: offline 		φρικιό, fanouška,เป็น....

(in reply to Nslavu)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 11:37:46 AM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline 		I know exactly what you mean, except mine is a playground in front of a heavily guarded fortress. When people first get to know me, they get to play on the playground, and so most people think I'm a very straightforward, fun, cute girl. The closer someone gets to me, the closer they get to seeing the self-defense fortress. I've only had one relationship so far (the one with my previous Dom) where he managed to get through the gates completely. I'm not going to tell you what's in the fortress, because the guards would get pissed

(in reply to nikkki)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 12:35:20 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dominasola

I think many s-types (myself included) tend to be highly sensitive to external stimuli - large crowds, angry customers...etc - so when we are on our own, we do have to develop these coping mechanisms, as you said.

I'm curious - this fog, is it like a mechanism that dulls your reactions/senses to the external world?  I tried to develop some sort of filter to protect myself from everything that is out there when I was on my own, but was never really successful.  Because of that, I would be in an almost constant state of anxiety as EVERYTHING just set me off.

I'm still trying to work on controlling the anxiety. In fact, I'm finding that now that I'm in a relationship, my Master is trying to help me develop a "fog" against these anxiety-developing stimuli (except for him, of course ) by constantly reminding me things like "whose opinion of you really matters" etc., when I'm faced with situations like degradation at work, etc.

I'm not sure if that is the type of "fog" you experience, but for me, a certain level of it - if focused only on the external world- is actually a good thing even in a relationship.



yes, that is what it does.  there was too much stimulus in my life at one point and it made me ill, depressed, sleep deprived, exhausted, miserable.  i dont remember how it came about, simply that it gradually did. 

i couldnt function any more as the cypher for every twist and turn in the road, i had to protect myself.

so now it is a barrier to the external world.  my internal world is now peaceful.  i dont stress about stuff anymore.

it used to be like panic attacks sometimes.  my car would break down and id panic, a bill would come in i couldnt cover and id panic, someone would upset me and id obsess about it.

im trying to think how it works...,

laughing - ok 3rd attempt)) - the fog is like a blanket, if you can imagine a blanket muffling the sounds or impacts of stuff, that is how the fog works.  so stuff doesnt have an impact anymore - stuff happens, i respond accordingly, no pain, no anxiety - the full impact of anything horrible is absorbed by the fog so that i can deal with stuff without morphing into some headless chicken.

but on the other side of it, it can also muffle good things happening to me.  i can remain completely impervious to emotional contact, give just as much as i feel i want to without putting out any more than i have to.  staying safe in other words.  trouble with that is that i know im short changing him and im short changing myself.  in those situations the fog is working against me rather than for me.  it keeps me safe from all enviromental change, good or bad.

its really only when its good stuff that i become acutely aware of this fog because it is actually then getting in my way.  the muffling is very apparent, the filter is 'ON' big time because it has learnt to cypher all external forces.

submission is the only way out  - it provides me with the same protection as the fog, i know that, but i have to get through the fog first.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to Dominasola)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 12:47:58 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nslavu

quote:

fog cushions a large part of everyday life.  it enables me to function in a blissful way, chaotic and largely random much of the time.  and yet in a relationship it gets in the way.  it becomes armour rather more than anything else, something to hide behind and retreat into.  its become so much part of me that its sometimes more prefferable than opening up.


The masks we wear, keeping up appearances that would betray our true selves .... lots of terms for it, even fog works. 'Getting in the way' in a relationship I would say, is putting it mildly. If there are any advantages in alt lifestyle, this opening up would be one of them.

I think we all have old, perhaps outmoded internal maps of reality that we hang on to in order to operate in society, because they are societal maps/norms that in away makes things smooth in that environment, even if they are counter intuitive and cause angst with the self that really wants to be free and known.

I don't think you're a freak, I think you're just noticing how freaky it is to not be the real you all the time. I suspect that is common among people who realize their true either D or s nature. The masks will probably remain though, as they protect you from those who have no clue who they are and spend most of their time playing the masked game that actually betrays their truth. Unfortunately it becomes a comfort zone though, this masking or fog, and this is what causes it's manifestations to return in a relationship, messing things up. Freaky.



not being the whole me, yes.  wanting to be the whole me, for sure. 

but in an odd way i am being me, in this fog, im just not reaching my full potential as me.  to reach my full potential is to submit fully without the fog.  but the fog has become an expert witness to my foul ups  and it doesnt trust me to go it alone.

i hope youre wrong about the mask staying on.  in a way the fog has taught me how to handle the people who wear masks - i have played them at their own game without being the open door i used to be.  ive learnt alot about people through the fog.  its an amazing tool.

the fog has been a great ally and im not knocking it, but it needs to stop being my all round protector now.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to Nslavu)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 12:52:25 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

I know exactly what you mean, except mine is a playground in front of a heavily guarded fortress. When people first get to know me, they get to play on the playground, and so most people think I'm a very straightforward, fun, cute girl. The closer someone gets to me, the closer they get to seeing the self-defense fortress. I've only had one relationship so far (the one with my previous Dom) where he managed to get through the gates completely. I'm not going to tell you what's in the fortress, because the guards would get pissed


yes, thats a perfect analogy.

is youre fortress almost a physical thing you can feel inside of youreself, a wall or a buffer or a boundary beyond which it feels almost impossible for you to step through.

but then again, maybe youre analogy is the more correct.  getting through the gates, but then dont you have to open the gates.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 1:01:12 PM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline 		Don't you need someone to give you the key to open the gates?

Someone to make it worthwhile.



_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 1:10:17 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

I was talking to someone, had a few emails, and he finally confessed that he expected me to let him have my hair cut on the first meet. I'm not about to surrender on that level to someone I don't even know. I just can't. I have hair down to my derriere, so my hair is a big deal to me. I'm not about to hand it over to someone on a whim. Not my hair, not my submission.


omg nooo, not the hair. Your hair looks beautiful, so I don't blame ya. What a weird and ridiculous request for a first meet though LOL.

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 1:14:49 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		I just wanted to post and thank you ladies for sharing this, and hopefully encourage you to continue expressing yourselves so honestly and openly.  That's about all I have to contribute at the moment.

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 2:55:54 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

is youre fortress almost a physical thing you can feel inside of youreself, a wall or a buffer or a boundary beyond which it feels almost impossible for you to step through.

but then again, maybe youre analogy is the more correct.  getting through the gates, but then dont you have to open the gates.


It's interesting, because I'm actually very able to get inside most of my fortress. A big part of me lives there, and it's quite a great place to live. My main problem is in letting other people in. However, there are a few sealed off rooms inside that are not yet open to me, and it would take overwhelming superior forces to get that far in. Or perhaps overwhelming gentleness and trust.

Another thing I wanted to mention is that sometimes a "foggy" feeling can come from being sort of detached from traumatic experiences in one's life. If you're having difficulty really looking inward and want to, you might consider talking to a therapist about it. It took me quite awhile to understand the inner workings of my fortress, and I couldn't have done it without the safety net that a professional can afford. You don't even have to have had any particularly traumatizing events to create a self-defense fog. Sometimes a single moment can create an echo of insecurity that will last for years, until you can just identify it. I'm a big advocate of everyone finding a good, empathetic therapist that they can touch base with often enough to keep themselves present.

Not to scare you or anything. It's just that a fear of opening up generally stems from something. You don't have to wait for a relationship to make peace with your inner fog or fortress

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 3:25:00 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

I'm not going to tell you what's in the fortress, because the guards would get pissed



<Hmmm... curiosity getting the better of me... waits till it's dark... sneaks up to the "fortress" wall... shoots a rope-hook over the wall... scales the wall... gets to the top... takes a looooooooooooooooong look (GASPS!!!)... quickly climbs down fortress wall... runs off screaming in horror with arms flailing about... climbs into bed, shaking in a fetal postion... develops a facial-twitch while repeatedly mumbling "no... no... no... it's not possible... it's just not possible?!!"... can never go near a leaf-blower again!!!>



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 3:25:46 PM   
afkarr


Posts: 328
Joined: 1/13/2010
Status: offline 		My expereince is the opposite- the non submissive mind set is more of an autopilot; it's what allows me to function with some semblance of normailty even when I'm still in subspace at a crusing altitude. The nice warm foggy feeling is the subspace, the autopilot is the non sub space.

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: foggy submissive - 3/6/2010 4:08:14 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB
I'm not going to tell you what's in the fortress, because the guards would get pissed


<Hmmm... curiosity getting the better of me... waits till it's dark... sneaks up to the "fortress" wall... shoots a rope-hook over the wall... scales the wall... gets to the top... takes a looooooooooooooooong look (GASPS!!!)... quickly climbs down fortress wall... runs off screaming in horror with arms flailing about... climbs into bed, shaking in a fetal postion... develops a facial-twitch while repeatedly mumbling "no... no... no... it's not possible... it's just not possible?!!"... can never go near a leaf-blower again!!!>


Why, what on earth do you mean? Oh, the leaf blower... yes, that was because the leaves fell into the fortress, you see, and they were getting in the way of all the puppies and kittens and sunshine and rainbows...

<secretly deploys ninjas to go get MasterSlaveLA and keep her from evah revealing the truth>



(edited because I can't type)

< Message edited by jujubeeMB -- 3/6/2010 4:24:04 PM >

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: foggy submissive - 3/7/2010 12:06:29 AM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		Such fog is part of human nature.
Surrender is by ongoing free choice from self will.
As awareness increases, the fog lifts.

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: foggy submissive - 3/7/2010 1:59:25 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

is youre fortress almost a physical thing you can feel inside of youreself, a wall or a buffer or a boundary beyond which it feels almost impossible for you to step through.

but then again, maybe youre analogy is the more correct.  getting through the gates, but then dont you have to open the gates.


It's interesting, because I'm actually very able to get inside most of my fortress. A big part of me lives there, and it's quite a great place to live. My main problem is in letting other people in. However, there are a few sealed off rooms inside that are not yet open to me, and it would take overwhelming superior forces to get that far in. Or perhaps overwhelming gentleness and trust.

Another thing I wanted to mention is that sometimes a "foggy" feeling can come from being sort of detached from traumatic experiences in one's life. If you're having difficulty really looking inward and want to, you might consider talking to a therapist about it. It took me quite awhile to understand the inner workings of my fortress, and I couldn't have done it without the safety net that a professional can afford. You don't even have to have had any particularly traumatizing events to create a self-defense fog. Sometimes a single moment can create an echo of insecurity that will last for years, until you can just identify it. I'm a big advocate of everyone finding a good, empathetic therapist that they can touch base with often enough to keep themselves present.

Not to scare you or anything. It's just that a fear of opening up generally stems from something. You don't have to wait for a relationship to make peace with your inner fog or fortress


sneaks coyly past yummy guard to go play with jujubee's kittens and puppies (the guard kinda smiled at me, so i think its ok. no sign of leaf blower as yet)

i did go to a therapist once - he was lovely, south african with green eyes, i would have jumped on him right there, but it would have been innappropriate )) - anyway.  we talked about all sorts of stuff, but mostly my mother.  we also talked about my childhood friend (yep i still have him around) so now you know im a fruit loop (ah well, the beauty of anonymity). anyway, he told me that it was ok to keep my childhood friend, if he helped me get through stuff.  so i figured after that i could counsel myself.  if keeping a childhood friend is ok then hell, the skies the limit on oddness - !  so now i apply the therapists methods to any problems by accepting who i am, how i am and going from there.  it seems to work.

plus Sir has said i can keep my fog too - in the hope that ill learn to turn to him instead as time goes on.

i think the therapist was right.  we need our coping mechanisms, theyre there for a reason (as someone else said above).  i do have murky waters, i know those closed doors youve mentioned, i have one or two of my own and its best to keep them closed i think - eventually they blend in with the walls and you forget theyre there, in time, whats behind them becomes less important - avoiding the whole emotional mess of opening them up is better.  we dont always need to dig into those things we've survived and learnt from.

but thanks for youre thoughts and for letting me play with youre kittens and puppies - that guard is delicious, how do you keep youre hands off him (or do you )



_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 18
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