kitty poos and wees........ (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> kitty poos and wees........ (2/14/2010 1:16:40 PM)

I'm planning some raised bed gardening (not much choice when half the backyard is tarmac), in which I intend to grow potatoes, runner beans and onions, chillis, garlic and coriander for curries....

But, I have a bunch of kitties here, who will no doubt find the soil much to their liking as a toilet.......

The question then, is what effect (if any) it will have on the edibility of my crops to be effectively using "feline fertiliser"? In theory, apart from the distasteful perception I'm thinking it should be OK - after all they chuck out a lot of ammonia and other elements found in fertilisers - on the other hand it might so affect the constitution of the soil that it could be disastrous!

Any answers?

E




LaTigresse -> RE: kitty poos and wees........ (2/14/2010 1:19:48 PM)

Aside from the, "Ewwwwwwww, a god damned cat turd!" when weeding and so forth, I've never found it to affect the crops. Heavy mulching will lessen your need to have your hands in there for possible close contact AND it seriously lessens the amount of watering also. It may even discourage some of the cat attractions.




Outlier2 -> RE: kitty poos and wees........ (2/14/2010 1:39:51 PM)

LadyEllen,

I do not know if you are aware of Square Foot Gardening.

I have done it and turned other people on to it.  It is the
easiest way I know to get the most harvest with the least
investment of time and work.

Here is the link to the website of the man who started it.

http://www.squarefootgardening.com/

This is a testimonial from his page.

"
This is one of the 2 books that actually got me into gardening (the other being Christopher O. Bird's "Modern Vegetable Gardening"). Like most suburban dwellers, I have a back yard that does not lend itself to traditional gardening.
With Mr. Bartholomew's method, I grew green and wax beans, peppers, tomatoes, zucchini, watermelon, cantaloupe, cucumbers, sunflowers, corn, pumpkins, lettuce, swiss chard, carrots and radishes all in a garden consisting of 2 4'x8', 1 4'x4' and 1 1'x8' plots. It is an excellent book for beginners, providing basic information on where to place a garden, when in the year to start it, amending your soil (or even making soil, if necessary), etc. There is also a guide for every popular vegetable, showing how and when to plant it, how often to water, how often to fertilize, how to harvest, common problems, and other such things. In conclusion, if you are typical suburban dweller who is interested in starting a garden, this book is a "must read". Not only will you gain great knowledge about a non-traditional form of gardening, but you'll learn that it is really something that you can do, no matter what your level of expertise."
Good luck with your garden.




RCdc -> RE: kitty poos and wees........ (2/14/2010 1:44:43 PM)

Apart from being a bit unpleasent if you find it, it's not bad as such, unless you are pregnant and don't maintain proper hygiene like washing hands and leaves or whatever veg you growing.
Other than that, stick a sandbox nearby and just keep it cleaned out regularly.  They seem more attracted to sand than heavily mulched soil.

the.dark.




dreamerdreaming -> RE: kitty poos and wees........ (2/14/2010 1:52:01 PM)

Can you make a raised bed sandbox for them? As the dark said, they'd likely prefer that. You'd just hafta clean it out regularly so they'd keep going there. cats are very clean critters, and they won't go where they don't feel its clean enough for them.




vixenkneels -> RE: kitty poos and wees........ (2/14/2010 1:52:24 PM)

I'm both a cat lover and a cat owner andI would strongly caution you about using feline feces and urine in a garden. 
How are zoonotic diseases transmitted?
Transmission of a zoonotic disease can potentially occur when a person comes into direct contact with secretions or excretions-such as saliva or feces-from an infected cat. Additionally, a disease may be contracted through contact with water or food that has been contaminated by an infected cat. Many zoonotic diseases can be transmitted from fleas or ticks (called vectors) to a person or a cat from another animal.

Who is at risk?
Most zoonotic diseases pose minimal threat; however, some humans are particularly at risk. Those with immature or weakened immune systems, such as infants, individuals with acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS), the elderly, and people undergoing cancer therapy, are more susceptible to zoonotic infections than others.
 
 
Salmonellosis
, another common bacterial disease, can cause diarrhea, fever, and stomach pain beginning one to three days after infection. Salmonellosis usually resolves on its own. However, some people require medical attention because the diarrhea is severe or the infection is affecting other organs. People usually get salmonellosis by eating contaminated food, such as undercooked chicken or eggs. However, cats and other animals-even those that appear healthy-can carry and pass salmonella bacteria in their stool. Salmonella bacteria are more commonly harbored by cats that feed on raw meat or wild birds and animals. Feline infection can be prevented by keeping cats indoors and feeding them cooked or commercially processed food. Human infection can be prevented by wearing gloves and washing hands thoroughly after cleaning litter boxes (especially if used by a cat with diarrhea).

 
 
 
Parasitic Infections

Fleas are the most common external parasite of cats. While fleas cannot thrive on humans, their bites can cause itching and inflammation. Fleas may also serve as vectors for cat-scratch and other zoonotic diseases. Flea-infested cats may become infected with tapeworms from fleas ingested while grooming. Children, albeit rarely, can also become infected with tapeworms from inadvertently ingesting fleas.
Some feline intestinal parasites, including roundworms and hookworms, can also cause disease in people. Children are particularly at risk due to their higher likelihood of contact with contaminated soil. Visceral larva migrans, a potentially serious disease that can affect the eyes and other organs, results from inadvertent consumption of roundworm eggs (e.g. when soiled fingers are placed in the mouth). Cutaneous larva migrans, an itchy skin disease, is caused by contact with hookworm-contaminated soil. Proper hygiene, including washing hands before meals, cleaning soil from vegetables, and reducing exposure to cat feces (e.g., by covering children's sandboxes when not in use) can prevent infection. Anti-parasite medications for kittens and annual fecal exams for adult cats can reduce environmental contamination and the risk of human infection
 
 
Protozoal Infections

Protozoans are single-celled organisms. The three most common protozoal diseases in cats and humans are cryptosporidiosis, giardiasis, and toxoplasmosis. Cryptosporidiosis and giardiasis can cause diarrhea in both cats and people, who usually become infected by a common source-for example, contaminated water-not by each other. To prevent the spread of infection, schedule annual fecal examinations for your cats, and medicate infected cats as directed by your veterinarian. Other preventive measures include wearing gloves while handling feces-contaminated material, washing hands afterwards, and boiling or filtering any surface water used for drinking.
Toxoplasmosis is caused by the parasitic protozoan Toxolasma gondii. People with weakened immune systems, or infants whose mothers are infected during pregnancy, can develop severe illness. People commonly become infected by eating undercooked or raw meat, or by inadvertently consuming contaminated soil on unwashed or undercooked vegetables. Unfortunately, pregnant women or immunosuppressed individuals are often mistakenly advised to remove cats from the household to reduce the risk of toxoplasmosis. However, people are highly unlikely to become infected from direct contact with their cats.
Cats can become infected by eating infected rodents, birds, or anything contaminated with feces from another infected cat. An infected cat can shed the parasite in its feces for up to two weeks. The parasite must then mature for one to five days before it becomes capable of causing infection. However, it can persist in the environment for many months and continue to contaminate soil, water, gardens, sandboxes, or any place where an infected cat has defecated.
 
 
 

 
Wear gloves when gardening or handling raw meat; wash hands afterwards.
. Cover children's sandboxes when not in use.
. Wash fruits and vegetables before eating.




peppermint -> RE: kitty poos and wees........ (2/14/2010 1:59:58 PM)

To keep the cats, my own and the neighbors's cats out of the garden I liberally sprinkle pepper on top of the soil.  It needs to be regularly done especially after a heavy rain.  Kitties like to sniff before going, and a nose full of pepper seems to discourage them without doing permanent harm.  




DesFIP -> RE: kitty poos and wees........ (2/14/2010 5:40:46 PM)

I've gotten toxoplasmosis from helping my brother garden in a yard he allowed his cat into. It's a truly horrible illness. They won't treat it if you aren't pregnant and you suffer from all sorts of weirdnesses for six months to a year until it resolves. Exhaustion, short term memory problems, low grade fever, swollen lymph glands. Six months of this.

Cats can transmit it without being sick themselves.




kiwisub12 -> RE: kitty poos and wees........ (2/14/2010 6:27:32 PM)

If you are doing raised beds, would it be possible to use chicken wire mesh over the top, and cut out the areas needed to plant the veggies? You could still mulch over top of the mesh, but the cats won't be able to scratch through to the dirt. And chicken wire isn't all that expensive.




LadyEllen -> RE: kitty poos and wees........ (2/15/2010 5:24:20 AM)

Thanks all - some good info in there and it looks like we need to be a bit more careful than I thought! Chicken wire may be the solution - we tried pepper and powdered chilli on the carpets when we had tiny kittens using them as the facilities and they were not at all deterred by that, but you can get stuff thats meant to work in that department I know; I'd just be worried they might eat it you know!? But the chicken wire could also be good for that - keeping the cats from eating slug pellets and the like.

E




RCdc -> RE: kitty poos and wees........ (2/15/2010 7:17:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
But the chicken wire could also be good for that - keeping the cats from eating slug pellets and the like.

E


I am going to absolutely plead on this.  Please, please, please don't use slug pellets.  Use grapefruit or beer, but not slug pellets.  It kills all sorts of creatures from birds to headgehogs  (in particular).  I have lost count of the times I have had to take a headgehog to be put down humanly or taken them to be nursed because they have eaten slugs that have been poisoned.  And headgehogs, birds etc are what you want in your garden to protect your plants.

the.dark.




littlebitxxx -> RE: kitty poos and wees........ (2/15/2010 8:43:27 AM)

<FR>

Have used chicken wire with great success.  And saucers of beer for the slugs.  (Drunk porcupines are hilarious to watch!)  




LadyEllen -> RE: kitty poos and wees........ (2/15/2010 9:31:53 AM)

Good point Dark, although I dont think we'll see many birds here unless theyre suicidal - 10 cats in residence right now! Hedgehogs meanwhile we have, although we dont see them often. The one time we had one ambling up the driveway was quite funny - a row of inquisitive kittens (as they were then) watching his progress and quite unsure what the hell it could be. We bought some dog food for it but havent seen it since - dont think the cats would go for it with all those spines. The question is I guess, whether a hedgehog could climb up into a foot high raised bed?

E




ourmsbetty -> RE: kitty poos and wees........ (2/15/2010 9:43:41 AM)

Yes, never underestimate a animal's ingenuity.

And there are other things to consider if thinking of using poison. Some years back I lost a kitten to him eating a mouse that had ingested poison.

Kitties don't know any better, and if they eat or attack something that may ingest poison you may find you have a very sick cat on your hands, even if they are now adults.

Don't use it in your garden if you wouldn't want your kitties to end up eating it.




RCdc -> RE: kitty poos and wees........ (2/15/2010 10:31:21 AM)

Headgehogs are very good climbers unfortunately!... particularly if the wall is unevenly bricked or there is a trellace (forgive my spelling) or the netting hangs down so you can reach it or there is wire.

Apart from that, there might be mice or rats anyway who will also be attracted not only to the veg, but the pellets.  They will eat anything and that's not good for cats if they catch and eat one, let alone those birds with a death wish!

Upside down, hollowed out grapefruit is fab and you can change that every day or every other and of course, they love the beer option so it depends how precious that beer is to you!

The grapefruit option is also a great way to see what slugs you have.  Don't think that all slugs are yuck for the garden.  Black slugs(or very dark brown) only eat rotting vegetation so they are a garden asset.  Its the grey/brown/tan slugs that you want to get rid off.
Famous saying - if its brown, put it down.  If its black, put it back.

the.dark.




calamitysandra -> RE: kitty poos and wees........ (2/15/2010 12:38:23 PM)

The beer sadly has the side effect of drawing all slugs in the neighbourhood, and they might take a snack in your gardens on the way to the bar you so helpfully set up for them.

The only thing that works for me, as I refuse to use poison, is to pick the slugs up and re-home them. In fact, I pay my boys 10 cents per slug for pick up and deportation services.
Over the years the slug population in your garden will diminish, as less of the little slimeys get a chance to lay their eggs in your soil.

You will catch the most of those guys after nightfall, trawling the garden with a flashlight, or after a rain.




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