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Manure as building material - 2/3/2010 10:33:26 PM   
erinroe


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This is something that I have been attempting to research for some years now, off and on. I say attempting, as I simply  cannot find any viable information on the correct methods.

What I am interested in learning about, is the use of manure (of any sort, as far as I know) for glazing walls, where it makes a lovely, glossy enamel finish.  I have read that this is the same method by which some enamel jewelry is made, and that this is a traditional Asian method for house construction.

I read about it being used by an elder Asian woman of a family who were in their home country and were basically being held in concentration camps and forced to live in drafty broken down houses, caves, and such.

What I have not found is the actual method to go from excrement to enamel. I know the book said she added things and smeared the excrement on the walls. In her case, it was human excrement, because that's all she had to work with; but, usually it's cow manure, I believe.

Does anyone know anything about this?  Because I cannot afford adobe, by hiring someone to do it; and I certainly cannot do all the work of it myself. However, I can contact some farmers and collect some manure and glaze some walls with it, if I knew what to do to make it something other than just crap on my walls!
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RE: Manure as building material - 2/3/2010 11:23:49 PM   
DomKen


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Enamelling involves melting powdered glass onto a hard surface. Can't see how that would involve excrement.

Traditional huts in many parts of the world were covered in mud as a kind of gap filler. I cannot see any reason you'd want to use manure, which is a very good fertilizer, over mud for this job either.

(in reply to erinroe)
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RE: Manure as building material - 2/4/2010 4:43:26 AM   
DarkSteven


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Adobe should be dirt cheap.  Literally.  Get some clay dirt, make bricks with it (adding straw), and then pay a kiln to let you fire it.

I have a funny feeling that the people who used manure were too poor to publish research papers.

I'm not quite sure what you want.  Adobe is a building material, and enamel glaze is a decoration.  They're not interchangeable.


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RE: Manure as building material - 2/4/2010 4:54:33 AM   
Musicmystery


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Not to mention that beetles and such would eat your manure away rather quickly.

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RE: Manure as building material - 2/4/2010 5:15:50 AM   
CarrieO


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You'll find manure being used as a building material...a replacement for sawdust (after being sterilized) in fiber/particle boards as mentioned in THIS article.

If money is an issue, I would look into other alternative building options.  A quick search on google will yield many examples...I should know
Just a thought...you may want to look into a tiny home (again, Google is your friend) or something similar that could be built from repurposed/salvaged materials

Good luck and happy building!

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RE: Manure as building material - 2/4/2010 5:23:29 AM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erinroe

This is something that I have been attempting to research for some years now, off and on. I say attempting, as I simply  cannot find any viable information on the correct methods.

What I am interested in learning about, is the use of manure (of any sort, as far as I know) for glazing walls, where it makes a lovely, glossy enamel finish.  I have read that this is the same method by which some enamel jewelry is made, and that this is a traditional Asian method for house construction.

I read about it being used by an elder Asian woman of a family who were in their home country and were basically being held in concentration camps and forced to live in drafty broken down houses, caves, and such.

What I have not found is the actual method to go from excrement to enamel. I know the book said she added things and smeared the excrement on the walls. In her case, it was human excrement, because that's all she had to work with; but, usually it's cow manure, I believe.

Does anyone know anything about this?  Because I cannot afford adobe, by hiring someone to do it; and I certainly cannot do all the work of it myself. However, I can contact some farmers and collect some manure and glaze some walls with it, if I knew what to do to make it something other than just crap on my walls!




I'll stick with Home Depot.

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RE: Manure as building material - 2/4/2010 8:55:46 AM   
LaTigresse


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I can see using sterilized or well composted horse manure as a fibrous material in an adobe brick. But it would have to be heated enough to kill the seeds and bacteria.

I compost it and use it for garden material so cannot see that it would be much different than some types of soil used in adobe. The one thing I do know is that once composted, it would also need something other than just water as a binding ingredient. Clay is far heavier than composted manure which is actually quite light and fluffy. Which is why I mix it into my garden. I live in an area that has horrible heavy clay soil. So, while I can see using it as an ingredient, it probably couldn't be the main ingredient.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 2/4/2010 8:56:12 AM >


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RE: Manure as building material - 2/4/2010 9:21:38 AM   
Jeffff


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There is a guy in another thread looking for an organic butter substiute.............  just sayin'



Jeff

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RE: Manure as building material - 2/4/2010 10:16:37 AM   
housesub4you


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Maybe he has them confused, and he wants to use a butter substitute as a building material 

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RE: Manure as building material - 2/4/2010 11:13:33 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

There is a guy in another thread looking for an organic butter substiute.............  just sayin'


Jeff


Maybe if you mixed the butter and the manure together, you would have something.

I am just not sure what...


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Manure as building material - 2/4/2010 11:21:41 AM   
servantforuse


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There is a lot of manure in the 'politics' forums.

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RE: Manure as building material - 2/4/2010 12:29:45 PM   
pahunkboy


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what about a government permit?

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RE: Manure as building material - 2/6/2010 6:26:20 AM   
sub4hire


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There is a company here in Nebraska that make manure pots for your plants.  They digest in the earth rather quickly so they are optimal for new seedlings. 

You might want to try searching in Asia if people have actually done it.  Concentration camps well I am sure they didn't really care if it gave them disease and such.  Nor that it degraded. 
I don't think I'd want to live in a house made of manure.  Another cheap yet viable product is hay.  Houses made of them are sturdy.  Insulated quite well.  If I ever build a house from scratch it will be made of hay.

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RE: Manure as building material - 2/6/2010 7:04:28 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

There is a company here in Nebraska that make manure pots for your plants.  They digest in the earth rather quickly so they are optimal for new seedlings. 

You might want to try searching in Asia if people have actually done it.  Concentration camps well I am sure they didn't really care if it gave them disease and such.  Nor that it degraded. 
I don't think I'd want to live in a house made of manure.  Another cheap yet viable product is hay.  Houses made of them are sturdy.  Insulated quite well.  If I ever build a house from scratch it will be made of hay.



Just thought that I'd add that sub4hire is referring to houses made of hay bales.  You don't want to be like the three little pigs...


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Manure as building material - 2/6/2010 7:22:52 AM   
CarrieO


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Taken from http://strawbale.sustainablesources.com/ ....

"Straw bale construction uses baled straw from wheat, oats, barley, rye, rice and others in walls covered by stucco. Straw bale are traditionally a waste product which farmers do not till under the soil, but do sell as animal bedding or landscape supply due to their durable nature. In many areas of the country, it is also burned, causing severe air quality problems. It is important to recognize that straw is the dry plant material or stalk left in the field after a plant has matured, been harvested for seed, and is no longer alive. Hay bales are made from short species of livestock feed grass that is green/alive and are not suitable for this application. Hay is also typically twice the price of straw."

I notice the OP hasn't been back, but if she does choose to stop by....this link, http://www.thelaststraw.org/ might be of help if considering a straw bale structure.  There really are so many options for alternative building and housing...google away!

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RE: Manure as building material - 2/6/2010 8:16:19 AM   
sub4hire


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven



Just thought that I'd add that sub4hire is referring to houses made of hay bales.  You don't want to be like the three little pigs...



Yes, thank you.

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RE: Manure as building material - 2/6/2010 8:23:31 AM   
thornhappy


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Cob construction often incorporates manure (saw it on Dirty Jobs, and there are a lot of references on the web).

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RE: Manure as building material - 2/6/2010 8:44:12 AM   
erinroe


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Thanks.  I actually was reading about cob and it's uses, just the other day. They said it is, more or less, an easier form of adobe. However, they also said it's better for spilling heat out of a house than actually insulating it (which would be great if we were somewhere else except for the summer).

What I am specifically interested in - I don't know what they call it.  It comes from Asia, I've heard elder Asians discussing it before - when I was a kid - and people used to be warned, too, that a good lot of enamel jewelry that is sold out of Asia is not really enamel, it's made by this method and only looks like enamel. I don't know if they curbed those sales, the accusations were proved false, or if it's a matter of no one cared, so they just kept it up, though.

Also, I read about it in a book that was about an Asian family who were among many families being held by some soldiers. I do not remember what country they were in, who the soldiers were working for, etc. except that everyone involved, at least in that part of the book, were Asians and it was in their own country.And, the story was told by one of the ones who were children of this family, by the way; so, it is a true story.

They were living in a very drafty dwelling of some sort, that had a ledge running down  and separating one part more from the rest. I think it was when they were living in the cave. There was an  older Auntie of some sort who they thought went crazy, because she started saving buckets of crap; first hers, then theirs too. She kept yelling at them not to waste it, if they wanted to survive and such as that. So, they started staying in one area and letting her have the other area all to herself, and trying to figure out what to do about her, and the smell, both.  Then, one day, it got worse and she started playing with it! Or, that's how they viewed it.

She started stirring it, mixing it with other things, and eventually smeared it all over the walls and floors. So, then they were sure that she was crazy and she'd bring the wrath of the soldiers down upon them all, and were really freaking out. I think they tied her up. I can't remember. What I do remember is that the person writing the book said that, after a few days of curing, that area of the dwelling was no longer drafty, or smelly. It was covered in a beautiful enamel glazing that kept the wind out and made the whole place warmer. So, they let the Auntie go and she explained that it was the way people used to do their houses, all the time; a traditional method she had learned from her elders, which had fallen into disuse. Only, normally, it would be cow manure that was used, not human feces - it was just, in her case, desperate times calling for desperate measures.

So, when I talked to the Asian people about it, they did know about it, some - but, not how to do it. They knew that it was true, it was traditional, it was very long lasting, that it did keep the cold, wind, and rain out and that it was safe, once dried, because it did turn into an enamel sort of glaze that was waterproof.

I have never found anyone who could explain how it was done, though.

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RE: Manure as building material - 2/6/2010 9:37:22 AM   
CarrieO


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Something like this... http://small-scale.net/yearofmud/2009/06/17/finish-earthen-plaster-part-1-materials-and-recipe/  

or   http://www.cultureartist.org/Tutorial/Chapter8.htm  


and the Dirty Jobs program... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/dirty-jobs-house-of-poo.html

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RE: Manure as building material - 2/6/2010 2:40:33 PM   
erinroe


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Those actually, so far, look quite promising! Thank you very much. 

I googled the subject til my little brain broke and came up with nothing half that interesting. 

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