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Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 5:42:36 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Subspace seems to have become a catch all term for a myriad of different types of subspace. I've been watching/participating in one thread on the "Ask a submissive" board that demonstrates how confused the issue is. I thought that, rather than confuse that discussion farther, I'd start a different thread to discuss it. Certainly not that it would be the first time it's been discussed though.

I have always understood subspace to be the body's chemical reaction to stimuli, most notably pain. Brought on by the flood of endorphins/adrenalin and most likely, hormones that occurs when we play. Kind of like a runner's high but different...LOL. One can also reach similar states through meditative practices but, yet again...similar but different. It is a place where conciousness changes. It can produce diminished conciousness or hyper awareness. It often alters how we see or feel things. My own experience in it is likely different than many others as I am synaesthetic, so while I am "there" I can hear, taste and smell colors along with seeing colors in things that one can not normally see...like colored air for example. There is also often a marked difference in the way that the body perceives or processes physical stimuli.

Another headspace that I often see people refer to as subspace is one that I personally don't feel IS actual subspace. I would call it more of a submissive fuzzy headspace. Somewhat hypnotic. This can be brought on by words, a touch, simply being in the presence of one's dominant or at times...even the thought of one's dominant. It is a profound headspace where one can feel somewhat ethereal or euphoric and the most notable aspect is somewhat overwhelming or engulfing submissive feelings. It can happen suddenly and produce a marked change in demeanor. When I experience this myself I often refer to it as "being dropped into place". It's kind of like being given an injection of narcotics.

They are very different spaces for me. Although they can be equally profound, one can not be brought on by the same factors as the other. I often wonder if these different headspaces all get lumped together under the "subspace" heading, when in fact they are not the same thing...in much the same way that I see many people dump sad, depressive or melancholy emotions under the heading of "subdrop"...which to me again is a chemical/body response to stimuli.

Thoughts?





< Message edited by mistoferin -- 1/20/2010 5:47:09 AM >

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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 5:45:38 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Thoughts?



My thoughts are that not all subspace trips are the same. What you describe, I call subspace when experiencing. Just a different sort.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 6:46:11 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Oh gosh, I didn't mean to imply that any two people's subspaces are the same experience. I guess what I am asking is how, if at all, you differentiate between the different spaces.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 6:55:47 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		I think its important that we don't over analyze what sub space actually is. One persons sub space could be someone elses something else.
I have known masochists that describe the same space that you call sub space but to them its not sub space, its a space they reach through the taking of pain without being at all submissive. People who have had operations whilst awake and without drugs have reported back that they see the most vibrant colors but we know thats not sub space.
Then we have the submissive who takes no pain but can 'space' well when in a place of submission. What is that if its not sub space?


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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 7:21:47 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Oh gosh, I didn't mean to imply that any two people's subspaces are the same experience. I guess what I am asking is how, if at all, you differentiate between the different spaces.


You didn't.

I just simply don't label them differently. They are all subspace to me. Just different kinds of subspace - like how I can be happy in many different ways. It falls under the heading of happy but there is a difference between "happy because my friend graduated college", "happy tears at a wedding", and "happy because Valyraen paid attention and got me exactly what I wanted for my birthday".

Make sense?

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 1/20/2010 7:23:43 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 7:29:22 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I agree with your concept.  I would also say that such states are not on the sub/bottom side alone.  As a top, I can promise you that the same exists on the other side, and yes, I agree that there are variations of this.  For example, the space I get from impact play is different than the space I achieve based on exercising control over the bottom in an activity that is more mental than physical, such as humiliation or fear.  I don't categorize all of the various types of space for Myself.  I tend to put them all in one and in use of the term, most understand what I am conveying.

In truth, I don't think it would be possible to a successful degree to do so.  While we all have, basically, the same chemical make up and function of the brain which produces the endorphins required to obtain space, we also have differences that make space different for different people.  Scientifically, we know that such conditions such as clinical depression, where there is an imbalance in the production or receptors for those same endorphins which should flow at a different rate, is one possibility in reason for people to have their experience of space feel differently than someone else.  Some with conditions such as ADHD may have shortened periods of space due to the way their brain processes chemicals and electrical charges differently.  Especially in the cases of various conditions that have not been diagnosed, or those who have been diagnosed, but have found a medicinal remedies for certain conditions, make it impossible for a standard description of the various types of space, and what it feels like as a 'norm' within the categories.


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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 7:44:03 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

...Another headspace that I often see people refer to as subspace is one that I personally don't feel IS actual subspace. I would call it more of a submissive fuzzy headspace. Somewhat hypnotic. This can be brought on by words, a touch, simply being in the presence of one's dominant or at times...even the thought of one's dominant. It is a profound headspace where one can feel somewhat ethereal or euphoric and the most notable aspect is somewhat overwhelming or engulfing submissive feelings. It can happen suddenly and produce a marked change in demeanor. When I experience this myself I often refer to it as "being dropped into place". It's kind of like being given an injection of narcotics...


personally, this slave doesn't have submissive "feelings"/has never FELT submissive, so the above explanation is like trying to understand a foreign language...that other folks DO experience submission as a "feeling" is somewhat fascinating, though.

quote:

...I have always understood subspace to be the body's chemical reaction to stimuli, most notably pain. Brought on by the flood of endorphins/adrenalin and most likely, hormones that occurs when we play. Kind of like a runner's high but different...LOL. One can also reach similar states through meditative practices but, yet again...similar but different. It is a place where conciousness changes. It can produce diminished conciousness or hyper awareness. It often alters how we see or feel things. My own experience in it is likely different than many others as I am synaesthetic, so while I am "there" I can hear, taste and smell colors along with seeing colors in things that one can not normally see...like colored air for example. There is also often a marked difference in the way that the body perceives or processes physical stimuli...


this slave has experienced a trance-like state during intense physical activities, after focusing on a specific loop of stimulus...it is sort of floaty and it is next to impossible for this slave to verbalize anything while there...but it isn't much different than a meditative trance state...only that the stimulus loop or center of focus is different.

quote:

...They are very different spaces for me. Although they can be equally profound, one can not be brought on by the same factors as the other. I often wonder if these different headspaces all get lumped together under the "subspace" heading, when in fact they are not the same thing...in much the same way that I see many people dump sad, depressive or melancholy emotions under the heading of "subdrop"...which to me again is a chemical/body response to stimuli...


this slave has never experienced sad, depressed and/or melancholy emotions after trance states/ "subspace". quite the contrary, so much that she has nicknamed it "subhigh" instead of "subdrop"--- an immense calm, peaceful, happy, satisfying warmth that sticks around for hours.

great to see you back, mist!!!

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 7:46:33 AM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		i agree with pretty much what everyone has said here. i have yet to talk with two people who experience subspace in exactly the same way, or that even really have the same definition of what it feels (or even looks) like.

i think the chemicals of the brain can react in many different ways in response to different stimuli, or even mental states. i have several different spaces myself. i'll briefly mention them here:

- what you refer to as "submissive fuzzy space" - i can go there in a touch, or by the sound of his voice alone
- what i call "dark places" - this is probably more true subspace, tunnel vision and lights, colors, just the sound of his voice, in response to extreme stimuli
- "meditative" space - which i can actually put myself into, and helps with going into the "dark places" - or i just exist in the cage, or....when i'm doing yoga or meditating on my pillow

Probably what i call "dark places" is the most aking to what is typically called "subspace." But i gave up a long time ago trying to see if what i experienced was like anyone else, because it really does seem to be unique to the individual....and as long as someone is experiencing what works for them, then no need to question it.

< Message edited by UniqueRaven -- 1/20/2010 7:47:11 AM >

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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 7:50:43 AM   
goober


Posts: 32
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		This is truly fascinating. The brain is an amazing thing!

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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 8:12:34 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		[I generally don't refer to the fuzzy glowy state I get into from just masochism as subspace, and I agree that I can get a similar headspace from dancing, yoga, etc. If it is combined with submission, I often can't speak coherently, and enjoy on emotional levels pain that doesn't physically feel good. I also feel deeply submissive when I do certain things for my Master, or when he touches me in certain ways. I also get into a primal/animalistic headspace from wrestling and playfighting, sometimes.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 10:04:01 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		I think one of the very important things that links all of this under the one heading of 'sub space' is that it is something that is done with your Partner/Dom/Master/Mistress. It is something to do with a very special connection between the two of you and its something that I believe is incredibly bonding.

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Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 12:04:17 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		Headspace is for everybody, and there are different kinds of headspace. Subspace is basically a one of many concept when it comes to headspace.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 5:15:08 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I don't float from pain but from intense stimulation while bound, blindfolded and gagged. I need sensory deprivation of some senses and overstimulation of the sense of touch.

But I refer to the fuzzy nonthinking focus on him as headspace.

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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 7:22:20 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Yeah subspace seems to have become the catchall phrase these days for anything and everything.

For me subspace is the high I get from the natural chemicals in my system from playing, the endorphins and adrenaline...not much different from a runner's high.

Then there's the space I go into when I'm hot for Master...it's not subspace..it's just well...I want him to use me...it's the craving space.

And then there's the rest of the time when I am with him where his personality just makes me want to surrender to him and that's pretty much a constant state of being.


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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 7:55:03 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Another headspace that I often see people refer to as subspace is one that I personally don't feel IS actual subspace. I would call it more of a submissive fuzzy headspace. Somewhat hypnotic. This can be brought on by words, a touch, simply being in the presence of one's dominant or at times...even the thought of one's dominant. It is a profound headspace where one can feel somewhat ethereal or euphoric and the most notable aspect is somewhat overwhelming or engulfing submissive feelings. It can happen suddenly and produce a marked change in demeanor. When I experience this myself I often refer to it as "being dropped into place". It's kind of like being given an injection of narcotics.


I would definitely agree with this, erin. I very recently was talking to a man that I am considering meeting very soon. He and I were talking and the conversation took an unexpected turn, a very sensual turn, and we found we had much more in common than we could have originally surmised from our internet profiles (this was not a BDSM site). He got slightly dominant on me without my even understanding what was taking place until after the phone call was over. I had thought that perhaps  my submissive feeling days were behind me, and then this one conversation helped me realize that even though it had been a REALLY long time since I had been in that head space, that I still can go there without even realizing it is happening.

I told him the next day my thoughts on this and who I am in relationships, and he was very happy to hear it, and even more enthused about meeting me... and he has had one D/s relationship in his past, was hoping to have another....

My point is that this fuzzy head space can come out of no where and when one least of all expects it.


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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/20/2010 8:56:48 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		It has been a while since I experienced subspace, but for me it is a combination of an endorphin rush and emotional/intellectual stimulation all at once.

I have experienced a drop afterwards, but I believe that had more to do with the fact that beyond the adrenalin rush of the scene, the rest of the relationship was not healthy, so coming down from a high level of intensity was a crash back to the reality that this was not the right situation for me to be in long term.

And like others, I believe it is highly individual as an experience and cannot be quantified.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 1/20/2010 8:57:29 PM >

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RE: Not all headspaces are subspace for me - 1/21/2010 4:59:48 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I think one of the very important things that links all of this under the one heading of 'sub space' is that it is something that is done with your Partner/Dom/Master/Mistress. It is something to do with a very special connection between the two of you and its something that I believe is incredibly bonding.


I can't say I've found this to be universially true.

I experience subspace when playing casually, with friends or with people I've just met whose names I didn't catch.

When I go into subspace with Valyraen it is bonding but it's because of how he and I interact while I'm there as opposed to me being there that bonds us.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to allthatjaz)
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