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RE: servant or slave? - 1/1/2010 4:14:38 PM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
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Status: offline 		I don't know about anyone else, but I love it when someone makes me want to give them all that I am and that is what I'm looking for.

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RE: servant or slave? - 1/1/2010 4:27:43 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

well, color me totally flummoxed.


*gets out her crayons* Okay Master Ron, hold still juuuuuuust a sec this won't take long. Ummmm what color is flummox again?


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RE: servant or slave? - 1/1/2010 4:34:56 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

I think the choice to be a servant or a slave is highly dependent on how big a Depeche Mode fan the Master is.


Okay that really made me giggle....we'll see how long it lasts, I think that song is stuck in my head now.


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And there's a smile when the pain comes
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RE: servant or slave? - 1/1/2010 4:52:34 PM   
sissyshoefetish


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Neither. I'm submissive. And I don't do humiliation.


Interesting - i see all submission as being implicitlly humiliating (subjugation of the ego)... though if you don't seek humiliation i suspect you may focus on the aspects more relevent to you personally. That is only my perspective and i primarily seek humiliation so i may be biased.

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RE: servant or slave? - 1/1/2010 4:57:33 PM   
sissyshoefetish


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: johndafreak

I'm just wondering, would being a servant  give a higher more refined style of humiliation?
I would treat a servant better than a slave


Why would either automatically equate to humiliation?



i feel slavery does implicitly contain humiliation (because the essence of slavery is removal of freedom and subjugation to anothers will) but that if you choose not to focus on this it can be overlooked; whereas being a servant allows you more access to dignity and affords you better treatment.

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RE: servant or slave? - 1/1/2010 5:18:13 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
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From: The Great Frozen North
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sissyshoefetish

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: johndafreak

I'm just wondering, would being a servant  give a higher more refined style of humiliation?
I would treat a servant better than a slave


Why would either automatically equate to humiliation?



i feel slavery does implicitly contain humiliation (because the essence of slavery is removal of freedom and subjugation to anothers will) but that if you choose not to focus on this it can be overlooked; whereas being a servant allows you more access to dignity and affords you better treatment.



I disagree with this completely. To me, there is no humiliation in slavery unless it's part of the dynamic.  Also, there is no guarantee of being treated better or with dignity as a servant, that is dependant on the Masterand/or Mistress. I'm not sure where you got the idea that slaves are mistreated and all dignity taken away, I can assure you that is far from true.

zeph


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RE: servant or slave? - 1/2/2010 1:54:30 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sissyshoefetish
i feel slavery does implicitly contain humiliation (because the essence of slavery is removal of freedom and subjugation to anothers will)

Your feelings are, of course, your own. However I see nothing wrong nor inherently humiliating about being subjugated to another's will and/or having one's freedom removed. We ALL do it constantly in our day to day lives? I personally don't feel humiliated in such situations. I cannot fathom why Carol ought to be "humiliated" at subjugating her will to mine.

Just a different viewpoint.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: servant or slave? - 1/2/2010 2:08:45 PM   
UniqueRaven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sissyshoefetish

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: johndafreak

I'm just wondering, would being a servant  give a higher more refined style of humiliation?
I would treat a servant better than a slave


Why would either automatically equate to humiliation?



i feel slavery does implicitly contain humiliation (because the essence of slavery is removal of freedom and subjugation to anothers will) but that if you choose not to focus on this it can be overlooked; whereas being a servant allows you more access to dignity and affords you better treatment.



OK, because i tend to be a bit geeky about semantics and definitions (i love to read, words are my friends) i went and looked humiliation up in the dictionary.  Here's the definition:

to cause (a person) a painful loss of pride, self-respect, or dignity; mortify.

i have never felt a loss of pride, self-respect, or dignity as a slave, and wouldn't last long as a slave to an Owner who considered that a key part of my slavery, either.  i also don't see humiliation as part of service, either - i think there's a great deal of pride in being a good servant that pleases my Master, and seeing the pride in his eyes is a huge reward for me.  

So no, i don't see humiliation as an implicit part of slavery - i see myself as an item of value to my Owner. And i'm always working to increase that value.  Being subjugated to his will is not a humiliating place to be - it is simply the right place to be. 

And to answer the original question, i would say that i am slave, and service is a big part of my slavery.  But i could not be a servant without being a slave, so if you asked me to choose between the two i would say slave, not servant.

Humiliation training, on the other hand, is a separate activity, and a separate thread.

*edited to fix an important "but"


< Message edited by UniqueRaven -- 1/2/2010 2:10:37 PM >

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RE: servant or slave? - 1/2/2010 2:12:43 PM   
osf


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Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline 		along that line i have found in the past with the women i have had it really wasn't so much humiliation as being made /told to do something which was above their shyness level, especially in front of others


i know a subtle difference

< Message edited by osf -- 1/2/2010 2:13:27 PM >

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RE: servant or slave? - 1/2/2010 2:14:09 PM   
Underumam


Posts: 485
Joined: 12/18/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissyshoefetish

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: johndafreak

I'm just wondering, would being a servant  give a higher more refined style of humiliation?
I would treat a servant better than a slave


Why would either automatically equate to humiliation?



i feel slavery does implicitly contain humiliation (because the essence of slavery is removal of freedom and subjugation to anothers will) but that if you choose not to focus on this it can be overlooked; whereas being a servant allows you more access to dignity and affords you better treatment.



I disagree with this completely. To me, there is no humiliation in slavery unless it's part of the dynamic.  Also, there is no guarantee of being treated better or with dignity as a servant, that is dependant on the Masterand/or Mistress. I'm not sure where you got the idea that slaves are mistreated and all dignity taken away, I can assure you that is far from true.

zeph



I never thought of myself as a slave. NEVER...Yet somehow, D has begun transforming me into Her idea of a perfect slave, and I'm getting happier all the time. Having never been able to COMPLETELY surrender to another person,I have almost come into trusting Her completely and it really thrills me beyond belief..

One of the main reasons I never identified with slavery is the fact that the very word insinuates not having a say so, and means accepting whatever treatment ones D offers. Overly-abrasive verbal talk, belittling and being treated like a sub-human really sucks and would make it impossible to remain devoted to someone who does this over time. I still believe that slavery as most perceive it, is unnatural and wrong. Yet, if being owned by Her is wrong, I really don't wanna be right. *grin*

How ya been Zeph?


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RE: servant or slave? - 1/2/2010 2:18:31 PM   
UniqueRaven


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From: Austin, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

along that line i have found in the past with the women i have had it really wasn't so much humiliation as being made /told to do something which was above their shyness level, especially in front of others


i know a subtle difference


i think i understand what you're saying, and if i do, i agree.  It isn't humiliating to be asked to do something that is difficult or embarrassing for you.  Is is simply doing as you're told.  You don't have to assign a value to the action if your Dom/Owner/Master hasn't asked you to do so, or made a value judgment of his own about the action.  Just do it, and be happy, is my take on things.

My favorite quote regarding this is from Yoda (yes, that Yoda):  "No! No different. Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned. No! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try."




_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

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RE: servant or slave? - 1/2/2010 2:19:51 PM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline 		good saying

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i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

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RE: servant or slave? - 1/2/2010 2:25:04 PM   
UniqueRaven


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Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

Overly-abrasive verbal talk, belittling and being treated like a sub-human really sucks and would make it impossible to remain devoted to someone who does this over time.



i wonder if this happens more in the Domme/submale dynamic than the Dom/subfemale dynamic.  My intuition tells me it does.  Would make an interesting separate thread, if it hasn't been discussed already.


_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

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RE: servant or slave? - 1/2/2010 5:20:22 PM   
johndafreak


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quote:

i wonder if this happens more in the Domme/submale dynamic than the Dom/subfemale dynamic.  My intuition tells me it does.  Would make an interesting separate thread, if it hasn't been discussed already.
quote:


I've wondered the same thing

servant and the act of being humble
I'll humbly do your bidding
slave, who cares if there is humble-ness or not. You're a slave.
That's my simple head view


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PEACE

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Profile   Post #: 54
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