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Termyn8or -> Human nature (12/20/2009 9:15:16 AM)

Subjectivity instead of objectivity.

He practically built her a house. He had given her the property and turned the little shack on it into a finely appointed four bedroom even with a dining room and a laundry on the first floor. Put in a nice big swimming pool. Raised her children well, as they are both honor students and they know all about drugs but choose not to imbibe. But he drinks so he is a useless bastard.

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He saved your life decades ago, more recently he remodeled a suite in your house for free, except for the usual drink and substance, some food. Did cement work for free, carpenty, wall fixing and painting, even plumbing, mostly for free. But he went on a tooter last year and therefore is also a useless bastard.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

She cooked for you, cleaned your house, bore you great offspring and raised them right. She gave up on her family and inheritance to be with you. Sex wise she gives you whatever you want, and loves every minute of it. But last night she got fucked up and lost it, and now is a useless bitch.

Get the point ? Every time someone fucks up any good they may have done is out the window. I have noted this trait in almost everyone I know. Perhaps I notice it because I am not cursed with it. Once you get to that point history takes on a new meaning.

Let's take a favorite example, Hitler. Now he really fucked up, in the beginning as a leader what he did for Germany was pretty much unparalelled in the world. But he fucked up with the Jews and he fucked up with Jesse Owens (I think that was the name).  He took that country into a war that they lost. But when you get into your Wolksvagon...............

Stalin. A real son of a bitch huh ? But wait, did he just have the biggest car and took over Russia by driving up to the Kremlin and having it measured ? Hell no, at one time he must have had support among the people.

I read in a post "Kennedy couldn't drive and Oldsmobile worth shit but ..........." something to that effect. That is what I am talking about. Our attitude affects our view of the world and people around us. And then we justify it to ourselves with something like : Well all the good they ever did was just a means to a mean end, they are snakes currying my favor.

Why wasn't that so last fucking week when they drove you home from the party because you got too fucked up ? Why weren't they a useless asshole last year when they got you a new driveway put in for $1,200 instead of $12,000 ? Why wasn't she a cum sucking ho last month when she spread her legs for you ? Why wasn't my Mom an abusive bitch up until the time I remembered her kicking my ass with a vacuum cleaner. And no I don't mean the cord. Why was she soooooo good until then ?

Why was my Dad who taught me more about business than anyone else a useless bastard because he was a drunk ?

Because in any arbitrary situation, the mind looks for ammo to use. Anything can be twisted and it seems alot of people have learned that from the media or somewhere. But the real problem is they have taken it to heart. I am not saying that when someone does bad it should be balanced against the good they may have done in the world, but then neither should all the good they have done in the world be summarily dismissed because they did bad.

In other words, if you expect perfection from others, get fucking prepared to be perfect yourself.

Comments ?

T



Musicmystery -> RE: Human nature (12/20/2009 9:37:03 AM)

When's the last time you intentionally went about catching people doing something right?

Try it. It gets better results than the constant criticism--even when you're criticizing people who criticize.

[image]http://en.mirknig.com/uploads/posts/The_One_Minute_Manager.jpg[/image]

Ask Santa.



windchymes -> RE: Human nature (12/20/2009 9:47:00 AM)

OMG, that's an awesome book!  I read it about 25 years ago when my then-hubby was going through management-training school, and I've used some of the techniques from it ever since!

In answer to the OP, I've found that when someone has been looking to get out of a relationship, but is afraid to for one reason or another (such as, they're married with young kids at home and their family & the Lord would disapprove), that "one screw-up" is usually the excuse to do so. 

On the other hand, I know people who will put up with all kinds of shit if their partner is "hot", "drop-dead beautiful", or has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy with their credit cards.



Musicmystery -> RE: Human nature (12/20/2009 9:52:41 AM)

quote:

OMG, that's an awesome book!  I read it about 25 years ago when my then-hubby was going through management-training school, and I've used some of the techniques from it ever since!


windchymes,

Check out this one too--I've shared it with several people, all of whom loved it:

[image]http://www.resumebear.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/peaks_and_valleys.png[/image]



EbonyWood -> RE: Human nature (12/20/2009 9:53:25 AM)

I didn't read this whole fucking post but I know it has a lot of fucking swear fucking words in it and should be fucking used by fucking AA to warn what fucking alcohol can fucking do to you.



pahunkboy -> RE: Human nature (12/20/2009 1:00:11 PM)

Of 7 years with Bob;

4 were good.
2 were ho hum
the final year was HELL.

(this applies to many LTRs)

So did I waste my life?

No.

I view it as 4 good years- etc.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Human nature (12/20/2009 1:48:44 PM)

OP In summary:

You are only as good as your last mistake.

I don't really understand the Hitler example because he swept to power singling out groups to direct peoples hatred towards. I don’t see that as positive and Germany could have achieved the same industrial success but without the hatred under a different leader. Just look how quickly it recovered after WW2, it always was and would always have been an industrial power regardless of the leader. The leadership were the worst thing to ever happen to it but you can’t just blame the leader because he obviously tapped into some fervour already in the population.

Regarding the OP yes people are only remembered for their last mistake but on the plus side after they die most get to be remembered in this unrealistic way they never were.



Musicmystery -> RE: Human nature (12/20/2009 2:00:45 PM)

My grandfather taught me that "the only people who don't get criticized are those who never do anything."

It would be sad to go through a life and never use it.



NorthernGent -> RE: Human nature (12/20/2009 4:05:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

My grandfather taught me that "the only people who don't get criticized are those who never do anything."



You've got to be in it to win it.



DesFIP -> RE: Human nature (12/20/2009 5:39:04 PM)

Because some of the things people do when drunk or high are unforgiveable.
Maybe the eponymous he did great carpentry when sober. But it doesn't forgive him from coming home drunk, backhanding his wife and raping her. And yes, this is common.

Some things are so heinous they cannot be forgiven, they cannot be forgotten and you will never feel safe with that person again.



Termyn8or -> RE: Human nature (12/21/2009 4:58:23 AM)

"I don’t see that as positive and Germany could have achieved the same industrial success but without the hatred under a different leader"

Maybe, but that brings up something else I noticed. Lived nextdoor to a hillbilly couple long ago. They were always fighting, I mean always.

Until the day they got pissed at ME ! With a common enemy they were all lovey dovey. Not that I was their enemy, in fact they were mistaken, I had not done what they thought I did. After that got cleared up they were back to their old selves yelling and throwing things.

T



Termyn8or -> RE: Human nature (12/21/2009 5:02:29 AM)

"But it doesn't forgive him from coming home drunk, backhanding his wife and raping her"

I totally agree, but in the examples I gave nothing of the sort happened.

T



DesFIP -> RE: Human nature (12/21/2009 5:46:50 AM)

How would you know? You really think he would admit it? Or her?
Beyond that, having lived with an alcoholic, I couldn't have dealt with another backslide. Too painful.
It was only me asking for a divorce the first time that made him get help. But the worrying if he'd gotten himself killed driving, or killed someone else while drunk? There's a limit to what I'm willing to endure, because it isn;t just what he's doing to himself, it's also what he's doing to me.

And my mental health comes first. I'm not willing to destroy myself hoping it might help someone else. You see Term, having been there, I know it wouldn't have done a damn thing for him but it was soul killing for me. I don't have relationships with addicts any more.



Termyn8or -> RE: Human nature (12/21/2009 7:52:04 AM)

How would I know ? I do know.

In the one example she has had him thrown in jail just for yelling, and no she is not always right, and then she is not always wrong. If he ever hit her, I know her and I know there would never be a reconciliation.

As for Dad, he hit Mom once, and he was put out immediately, never to return.

While I understand what you're saying, physical abuse is not the issue here. This is a case where it is pretty much proven to me, but not to you. So in this case if you simply take it hypothetically, maybe you see the intent, the point more clearly. Just remove physical abuse from the equation for now.

The guy who went on the tooter, he blew about a grand on coke that week. His attitude was that he earned the money so nobody has a damn thing to say about it. We'll see how that holds water in time. Like when he's broke and destitute.

Now none of this really addresses verbal abuse. For some people just the voice of someone who is drunk can be almost abusive. Loud slurred nonesensical shit, it gets to me as well, even though I do drink. So I do not lack the understanding on that issue. Though I drink I do not get drunk except on those occasions when I decide to cut loose. Take a few shots and overdo, it's time. Even then I have effectively dealt with my personal issues that now I am a happy drunk, if I decide to get drunk. I remember that I did this to have a good time. I have no free floating anger.

I have not always been this way for sure. I wish I'd straightened myself out a long time ago before ever taking a drink. I literally wrecked my life and have spent the rest of it picking up the pieces. I know personally how devastating substance abuse can be. Right now I thank my lucky stars that I have the skill, knowledge, earning power and guile to at least get to where I am because by rights, I belong in the gutter. If I hadn't fucked my life up so bad I would no doubt be a millionaire at least, in fact I may have spent a million over the years buying off the trouble I have caused.

I am living proof that someone can go from abuser to casual partyer. You are welcome to come to town and ask everyone I know, I'll give you a list and most of them know one another. There can be no deception.

Maybe my examples are not so good, possibly because almost everyone I know parties. Let's take it simpler. He gives you the money for a major car repair. And then totally straight, wrecks the car and is at fault. The point is, it's hard to see that shiny new transmission in something that looks like a crushed soda can. that is my point. Take all the substances, their abuses and all of it out of the picture and this human trait still remains.

That's what I was talking about.

Oh, Ebony, I like the F word. I need no alcohol to use it effectively or not. My whole family is full of potty mouths, and I got borned and just got bigger.

T



DesFIP -> RE: Human nature (12/21/2009 11:15:49 AM)

Re the hitting, maybe she was hit in a previous relationship or as a kid. What I do know is that police and other organizations that deal with spousal abuse victims promote having the abuser thrown in jail the first time. Because if you wait until it is a pattern, it is almost impossible to break. The first time is the one most likely to get through to the abuser.

But you don't get to decide another person's breaking point. So if after being told in a low voice over and over that I'm a stupid bitch who wouldn't ever get someone else to put up with me, you decide to start screaming it at me, and that's my breaking point then there is no way I would back down and take you back if I finally got the courage to end it.

And for some one drug tear is enough. My emotional resiliency is not something you can decide. You may be fine with a partner doing stupid things, but if it isn't fine for me then it isn't. My decision as to how much I can handle, no one else's.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Human nature (12/21/2009 11:30:47 AM)

quote:

...The first time is the one most likely to get through to the abuser...


from personal experience, the first time is likely to be a slap on the wrist---perhaps an overnight in jail, a temporary protective order issued and first time offender status which means no additional jail time, just probation, anger management classes and the paying of fines---and it is also the way the abuser familiarizes himself with the system to better circumvent it the next time.
 
the absolute GOOD thing that the first time report does is get it on record, so that the next woman and the next woman and the next woman he abuses will be able to prosecute more vigorously a repeat, habitual offender.
 
it could happen, but this slave knows of no one who was "cured" of abusing others by attending court ordered anger management classes or through the paying of fines.



DesFIP -> RE: Human nature (12/21/2009 12:50:49 PM)

Alas, too true. But some localities come down a lot harder on abusers than others. And getting it on record the first time in these localities means they do get a world of hurt the second.

Going back to the topic, Term hasn't given any virtues. He said the guy doesn't do anything too bad. Now I'll disagree that going on a weeklong cocaine toot isn't bad and that everybody parties. I know many men who don't, who come home and play games with their kids, take their wives to dinner over the weekend and go back to work on Monday perfectly content.

But I haven't seen any examples of the he doing anything right. Enlarging your house so your children have a decent place to sleep isn't a gift to the wife, it's what a decent man with sufficient skill and/or funds does to support his family. Showing up at a parent teacher conference doesn't make you a great man, it just means you are doing what a good father does. Same for attending your daughter's dance recital or coaching your son's basketball game.

Positive things are telling your wife that she's got beautiful eyes even though she's no longer young and skinny. Thanking her for cooking instead of eating and getting up from the table with a grunt to watch tv. Agreeing to go out on Saturday afternoon for a few hours of yard sale or taking the family to play miniature golf and get ice cream instead of watching the game.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Human nature (12/21/2009 3:00:00 PM)

You seem to have restricted this thread to a discussion about domestic abuse when that really didn't seem to be the entire point of the op. I could be wrong but wasn't all this supposed to be a hypothetical situation made up in Termyn8or’s head to get across a broader point? I don't understand therefore the point of debating circumstances and the accuracy of the behaviour of fictitious characters in fictitious events within examples that were only intended to be given as background to a broader question?

We know that some things can't be forgiven no matter what good deeds are done prior to it or subsequently. Depends on the individuals though because some people are mugs that seem to come back for more abuse. I see people trying to project what they would do in any given situation onto someone else and if people acted as we thought they should in those situations then we’d never be surprised by their actions.



Termyn8or -> RE: Human nature (12/21/2009 3:10:06 PM)

The different examples are different people, but in any case I agree.

When you have yougins you have to live a bit differently, partying takes away precious time. Even if you don't go too far, you can well afford it monetarily and cause no trouble there is no way to replace the time. But that is a different subject.

I confess I guess to providing poor examples. I tried to use examples from my own circle, and for the most part if there are any kids involved they are grown now. Let's say Bill Clinton. Compared to certain others he did a fairly decent job, but what is he remembered most for ? A blow job.

T



cpK69 -> RE: Human nature (12/21/2009 3:20:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


In other words, if you expect perfection from others, get fucking prepared to be perfect yourself.

Comments ?

T



I think the problem is that too many expect perfection from their selves, so that when they make ‘bad’ choices, it is easier to blame someone/thing else, then to admit they ‘fucked up’ (forgot themselves).


At least that’s how I think it works on the planet I’m from.


Kim



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