How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (Full Version)

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LadyAngelika -> How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (12/19/2009 5:54:59 PM)

I'm quite interested in cultures and societies, what they consider to be appreciated and acceptable behaviour.

I live in Montreal, a very sexually liberated and open-minded city, great for kinksters and other individuals of alternate sexual preferences. Of course downtown and its neighbouring boroughs are more liberal than its suburbs. I have found very few areas that have the same kind of feeling: San Francisco, specifically the Castro, Manhattan, specifically the Village. I've heard accounts from Paris, Berlin, London, Amsterdam, though I personally haven't had the opportunity to explore Europe in contexts other than business in the last 10 years.

Many times I've had conversations with people, or read threads on the topic, about the degree to which someone is out about their kink. Now I'm a relatively private person so it isn't important for me to share this part of me with others. I gladly keep it to myself. Then again, I probably would have a lot of leeway based on where it is that I lived. To a certain degree, I would say that no one that I interact with would bat an eyelash if a kink-related remark would come up.

The point I'm trying to make is that some cities make it easier to live your life a little more freely because there seems to be a more accepting vibe. Now most big cities have got their kinky scenes, yes, but many of them need to be relatively clandestine.

Do you share this view?

At any point in your life, did you move to a more liberated city in order to be yourself more freely? Or are you considering it?

Is living where you are now, close to family and the world that you know more important? And if so, do you wish your neighbourhood became more liberated?

- LA



SirRussellP -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (12/19/2009 6:31:16 PM)

Since I have lived in St. Petersburg, Fl part of the southern bible belt know for having people living there with one foot in the grave the other on a banana peel and Tampa, Fl with a large Catholic population I know the other side of the coin. 

I spent 5 years as the Commercial Accounts Manager for a family owned business and when my assistant found out through a mutual friend that I was a hard core Dominant he let it out at work.  Next thing I know I am sent for awareness training, the only person from our business, even though none of the females or for that matter males had complained.

I don't hide who I am but I also don't put it out there for everyone.  Now here in the greater Denver area I haven't found it to be nearly as up tight .



LadyHibiscus -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (12/19/2009 7:31:33 PM)

There is a battle on one of my Fetlife groups over how much of a risk we in Michigan are taking at a certain venue over the others. We are NOT a kink friendly state, but caution and luck favour the bold!

edited to add:

I do wish this was a kink friendly city/state, and that we could have full nudity AND alcohol in the same room at a public event, but such is not to be. The best we can hope for is to stay under the radar.



breatheasone -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (12/19/2009 7:53:24 PM)

Master and i live in the Hampton Roads area of Virginia (this encompasses cities that include Norfolk and Virginia Beach) There are not alot of BDSM activities here. The Washington D.C. area has a thriving BDSM community, Baltimore does as well. i have been to some play parties in D.C. and Baltimore areas.



DesFIP -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (12/19/2009 7:53:47 PM)

I grew up on one of the Fire Island gay communities. A clothing optional beach but you need underwear in the shops.

At the same time I still think it's rude to have sex on the beach on July 4th when there isn't a free patch of sand. Or even on the pool deck when my neighbors can look over and see me being tied to a lounge.

I don't want to watch them have sex and I don't want them to watch me. Although I would still like someday to be tied to the lounge out in the warm air.



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (12/19/2009 8:22:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

The point I'm trying to make is that some cities make it easier to live your life a little more freely because there seems to be a more accepting vibe. Now most big cities have got their kinky scenes, yes, but many of them need to be relatively clandestine.

Do you share this view?

At any point in your life, did you move to a more liberated city in order to be yourself more freely? Or are you considering it?

Is living where you are now, close to family and the world that you know more important? And if so, do you wish your neighbourhood became more liberated?


I'm not entirely sure my answer is on point, but I think it's at least in the neighborhood.

First of all, I completely agree that some cities are a lot more open and a lot more kink-favorable than others. I'm in the process right now of deciding where to relocate to sometime in the coming year, and it's a major factor in determining where to move to. My reasons are somewhat varied, but the presence of a strong, vibrant, diverse, and open-minded kink community is essential to me. I would never, for example, pick Salt Lake City, no matter how many other things it had going for it. If i stay in the United States, it's down to a choice between the Los Angeles area or the San Francisco area, but among the other countries I'm considering, the kink quotient is of paramount importance in the consideration process.



AcademyForSlaves -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (12/19/2009 8:46:53 PM)

Hi.

I travel worldwide for this lifestyle so it's interesting being in different communities. I like California, New York, and Toronto. France and London, UK is great too. I stay more in the big cities so it's never a problem.



MFM4me2 -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (12/19/2009 9:41:10 PM)

I live in a small New England town. They would march down the street with flaming torches if they knew half of what goes on under their radar.



Justme696 -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (12/20/2009 12:43:42 AM)

The dutch are mainly focused on themselfs. What people do in their own house, they don't care about.
A good thing by times.



sunshinemiss -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (12/20/2009 3:48:31 AM)

I too travel quite a lot and have found lots of differences.

In Peru, the D/s aspect / sexual kink was just a regular part of life - something about the machismo.  The men just presumed they could order the women around.  The women presumed they would be turned into sexual pretzels.  It was so wonderful!  Everything was "natural" (emphasis on the "al part ... na too RAHL)... It's what they'd say.  Slap the ass - natural, pull your hair - natural, throw you down and take you - natural.  (Sigh, I miss Peru)...

Korea on the other hand (south, not north)... I was nearly deported for bringing a butt plug in the country.  Also, the repression is so great that the kinky are VERY kinky, and the 'nilla folks are just desperate.

best,
sunshine



Elizabeth666 -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (12/20/2009 4:24:06 AM)

I live in Ottawa, Ontario and it's not too bad. We have one BDSM club here and a couple of swinger's clubs that have BDSM nights. I do find most of the people I talk to go to Montreal over going to the clubs here. My opinion is that it's because Ottawa is a very Conservative city. Lots of politics (Being the capital of Canada) and a lot of people here are uptight. But, on the other hand, the store I work at does pretty well with our bondage products and most of the other adult stores here do as well. The community is quite open but pretty quiet at the same time. Does that make sense? lol



ranja -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (12/20/2009 4:52:31 AM)

FR
last week i stumbled onto a one of these reality type programs and it was about what 'normal' people get upto in the English suburbs... there was a old middle aged haggard looking rock couple who threw a garden party... they had a rig put up in their front garden and entertained their guests with some suspension art... young men hanging in the rig fastened by hooks through their skin... while the hostess walked around in a in tight pink rubber dress offering the guests garlic bread...
i was very pleasantly gob smacked and was sorry to have missed close to which town this suburb was



LaTigresse -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (12/20/2009 5:15:42 AM)

I live in rural SE Iowa, US. They don' really care what you do around here as long as they don't know about it.

Within the distance of a good hike we have just about every christian religioun known to the US as well as Amish and Mennonite. As long as you are perceived as maintaining a boring, white bread, surface gloss, they will pretend you are such. If you put your wild, multi grain, crazy coloured, freak out there in public demanding attention, you will get it and it won't be too accepting.

No matter what you do, people are going to speculate, make shit up, just so that they have something to gossip behind your back about. Everyone, especially those that call themselves friends. Even some family member will indulge just to have something to talk about and liven up their boring lives.

I am used to all of it and don't mind. There are pros to living here also that have nothing at all to do with kink so for me, it balances out.



lally2 -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (12/20/2009 5:43:18 AM)


i live in the english countryside, south coast which isnt as provincial as it sounds. lots of londoners moving in. we have a kink shop not far - well a few miles away and i have to admit i was surprised to see it there.

one visit there with a Master he bought a cane, the shop assistant wrapped it up in two bags and we went over the road to a pub for lunch. the landlady asked about the 'parcel' its shape was so obvious really. she was smiling, like conspiritorially, but we lied and said it was ... i cant remember what we said it was.

anyway - there are pockets of resistance certainly but as london merges with the south coast and slowly engulfs it i expect we'll see a little more acceptance of 'alternative' lifestyles and cultures.



afterforever -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighbourhood? (12/20/2009 6:54:02 AM)

I live in Belfast, all the uber-religious sexual repression of Ireland proper, with the added benefit of numerous paramilitary organisations policing the communities in whatever manner they see fit. I'm pretty sure all the nuns, rulers, and priests fiddling with the altar boys made for a lot of kinky folks underneath, but no one wants to be kneecapped because their neighbour saw them wearing a gimp mask whilst doing the dishes.

We do have a gay bar now, and a Pride march, they get bomb threats most weekends and the march usually starts a few wee riots, but that's pretty normal for Belfast, the last riot was the night of turning on the Christmas lights, people here don't really need a reason. And to be fair things have calmed down a bit the past few years. There are no kink clubs, and the Belfast munch keeps itself strictly under the radar, we hide out in the gay bar and are fairly paranoid when it comes to our play parties. There is one BDSM club night a month in Dublin, that's the extent of Ireland's kinkiness.

I spent most of my teenage years in or around London so it probably annoys me more than most people, everyone else is used to it. I expect I'll move somewhere kinkier eventually, although I did just sign up to spend the next 2 years here at least. There are benefits to living in Ireland, the scenery is prettier, the surfing is better (if you're not prone to frostbite), and the drinks measures are bigger.



Mercnbeth -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighborhood? (12/20/2009 7:17:06 AM)

Living in LA you can go something falling under the large umbrella of 'lifestyle' just about every night. Every night if you consider 'leather bars' lifestyle.

We're pretty secluded in our neighborhood and we enjoy playing outdoors all the time. No problem as long as you're careful with the 10:00 PM sound curfew. Then a cop comes to you door and reminds you; "This isn't the neighborhood for outdoor orgies - Take it inside!"



LadyPact -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighborhood? (12/20/2009 9:37:10 AM)

Why do I have the feeling that the particular story above is going to make for one of those great memories that always stay with one through the years?  LOL.

To the OP's question, I live in a very small town that is roughly between San Fransisco and LA geographically.  There really isn't a stable kink community here, but I have no problem putting Myself in the car and going to where there is one.  In the few months that I've been here, I've made it to the LA area, San Fransisco, San Jose, and Bakersfield, which have all been fantastic.  Great fun and great people in all of these places.

Where I've lived has never really influenced whether I was out or not. 



LadyAngelika -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighborhood? (12/20/2009 10:38:53 AM)

Wow, what a nice diversity in the answers. So far, my assumptions seem to be correct. I wonder to which degree it is harder to meet someone in a less kink friendly community than others. I mean I met more than half my boys in regular vanilla settings...

I've replied to all of you so far in one post, just very appreciative of the responses.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirRussellP
...when my assistant found out through a mutual friend that I was a hard core Dominant he let it out at work. Next thing I know I am sent for awareness training, the only person from our business, even though none of the females or for that matter males had complained.


Wow. Sorry to hear that! Awareness training. Sounds like they were the ones that needed awareness training!

I hope you are finding more peace where you are now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
I do wish this was a kink friendly city/state, and that we could have full nudity AND alcohol in the same room at a public event, but such is not to be. The best we can hope for is to stay under the radar.


I guess for those of you who wish to live a very out life, it could be frustrating to have to repress one's way of life because of the local opinion. But as much as I'm a wine & exquisite spirits aficionado, I'm not so sure I'm into mixing whiskey & whips!

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone
The Washington D.C. area has a thriving BDSM community, Baltimore does as well. i have been to some play parties in D.C. and Baltimore areas.


Of course most major urban areas have their kink clubs, but in general some cities are in general much more open as a society.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
I grew up on one of the Fire Island gay communities. A clothing optional beach but you need underwear in the shops.


Wow! Talk about an upbringing! I'm sure you've had more than an eye-full. Much like you, I'm not into voyeurism and exhibitionism so I understand when too much is too much. A little decorum is always in good taste! But there has to be a happy medium, no?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
I'm not entirely sure my answer is on point, but I think it's at least in the neighborhood.


It is totally on point. You are noticing a difference between the kink awareness & acceptance level of various cities and are weighing that factor in when considering your next move.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AcademyForSlaves
I travel worldwide for this lifestyle so it's interesting being in different communities. I like California, New York, and Toronto. France and London, UK is great too. I stay more in the big cities so it's never a problem.


You should check out Montreal in your travels. Though I'm not part of the local community or scene, I know some of the community leaders.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696
The dutch are mainly focused on themselfs. What people do in their own house, they don't care about.
A good thing by times.


The Dutch rock at this!

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
In Peru, the D/s aspect / sexual kink was just a regular part of life - something about the machismo.


Though I can see how as a submissive woman this might seem like paradise to you, what you witnessed was no a kink friendly community. It was a community where the societal norms have the men in power and the women subservient. As I'm a dominant woman, I don't think that I would find the D/s aspects all that natural. Au contraire!

quote:

ORIGINAL: MFM4me2
I live in a small New England town. They would march down the street with flaming torches if they knew half of what goes on under their radar.


I'm not surprised. As much as I'm private, I'm not sure I would want to have to live in such a clandestine fashion. Do you ever feel the urge to get out or are the benefits of living in a small New England town (and I'm sure there are many) enough to keep you there? Also, and not to intrude, but are you in a relationship? I would imagine that it might be easier to have a partner and not to have to find like-minded people in a close minded society.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elizabeth666
I live in Ottawa, Ontario (...) The community is quite open but pretty quiet at the same time. Does that make sense? lol


Everything sexual that happens in a politician's town has to be hush hush. Now just point me the clandestine club where Harper and his pals might be tied up and ball gagged please and I'll show our PM what it's really like to get fucked! ;-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja
last week i stumbled onto a one of these reality type programs and it was about what 'normal' people get upto in the English suburbs... there was a old middle aged haggard looking rock couple who threw a garden party... they had a rig put up in their front garden and entertained their guests with some suspension art... young men hanging in the rig fastened by hooks through their skin... while the hostess walked around in a in tight pink rubber dress offering the guests garlic bread...


And they must be the town freaks, so completely out there that no one dares comment or approach them. They are the other extreme!

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
I live in rural SE Iowa, US. They don' really care what you do around here as long as they don't know about it. (...)I am used to all of it and don't mind. There are pros to living here also that have nothing at all to do with kink so for me, it balances out.


Well it's good that you are left alone and are avoiding the potential persecution. And thanks for addressing my question about the pros of the area outweighing the cons of the rather closed community. Again, do you think it is more difficult to find someone? Or is the underground movement thriving?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
anyway - there are pockets of resistance certainly but as london merges with the south coast and slowly engulfs it i expect we'll see a little more acceptance of 'alternative' lifestyles and cultures.


True. And we see this in Montreal to a certain degree. But there are neighbourhood in Montreal where it would be completely acceptable to go and have dinner in fetishwear (which complies with the covering genital areas & torso rules that most restos have). I've heard some areas of London does too. I don't think most places can boast to have the same degree of freedom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: afterforever
I spent most of my teenage years in or around London so it probably annoys me more than most people, everyone else is used to it. I expect I'll move somewhere kinkier eventually, although I did just sign up to spend the next 2 years here at least. There are benefits to living in Ireland, the scenery is prettier, the surfing is better (if you're not prone to frostbite), and the drinks measures are bigger.


I feel the inner torment in your post. Ireland is indeed a wickedly beautiful country but with very strong religious ideals. And I've initiated a Dubliner to D/s before... something so hot about the accent when he begged! Ha ha ;-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
"This isn't the neighborhood for outdoor orgies - Take it inside!"


Priceless! Well the LAPD must get an eye-full regularly so as crazy as your kink parties must be Merc & Beth, I'm sure they are all par for the course!

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Where I've lived has never really influenced whether I was out or not.


I don't know you well, but I have a feeling that you live with pretty much no fear! Which is a good thing :-) You also have your family which probably gives you much support. I'm glad that you feel free to be who you are. I wish this for more people. Also, it helps that there are many kinky communities within a day's drive of you.

- LA



subMan4Madame -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighborhood? (12/20/2009 12:38:47 PM)

I live in Belgium, more particularly east of Brussels, in the area of Leuven which is very much a friendly student-dominated little town.

Public library may not be offering much BDSM material but after some high profile cases in the late 1990'ies like 'the S&M Judge', Belgium's legal and police systems seem to have returned to a rather lenient attitude towards sex and BDSM initiatives in general.

In June of this year, several well-known BDSM dominatrices were tried in court for their assistance in an establishment that had been advertising 'operation room role play' openly on the internet for years. The key person, a German plastic surgeon, had carried out "body modifications" (sometimes for real, in response to true patient desires and this allegedly up to transgender ops and castrations) in an illegal fashion (absence of proper medical licence). Two of the 5 assisting ladies received sentences like 80 hours of community service. Point being: in 1997 the "SM Judge" was totally ruined by the court for what was basicly a private case without any permanent physical damage to the 'victim', his wife.

Belgium consists mainly of 2 very separated communities: the 6 million Dutch-speaking Flemish in the North and some 4 million speaking French in Wallonia (and the "very peculiar" Brussels area).

In matters of BDSM, the Dutch communities (notably the Flemish in Belgium and the 16 million Dutch in the Netherlands, together known as the "Low Countries") quite enjoy their stable if not growing scene infrastructure like the BDSM shops and party clubs. I am not so much of a club visiting person myself but I can admire the dynamic of BDSM initiatives on the internet in the Low Countries. One example: there is no shortage of websites for personal ads (most of them gratis) targeting the Dutch communities. In fact, it's my impression that our local BDSM'ers cannot keep up with the possibilities offered by some of these organisations.

This is quite different in the French culture. Free websites for personal ads are not only scarce, they are also functionally poor. And female non-commercial BDSM enthusiasts to be found on them are even scarcer. And this while French web sites can easily target (and source from!) a general population of way over 70 million.


So in my view, the main cultural factor affecting my BDSM options is the Dutch-French language border (only 20 km southbound of my home). And if I were to move in order to find "richer fishing grounds", it would definitely be up north. It's just that because of my professional expertise I tend to target headquarter offices of multinational companies in the Brussels area. And unfortunately for me but Amsterdam, the 'Capital of Freedom', is quite a different business environment. But then again, it's also being called the 'most un-Dutch city of the Netherlands'.

Cheers!
Rob

PS: being Belgian means that alcohol (especially beer) is very common, even in BDSM club life.
PPS: edited to correct URL linking.



LadyAngelika -> RE: How Kink-friendly is Your Neighborhood? (12/20/2009 2:18:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subMan4Madame

I live in Belgium, more particularly east of Brussels, in the area of Leuven which is very much a friendly student-dominated little town.

Public library may not be offering much BDSM material but after some high profile cases in the late 1990'ies like 'the S&M Judge', Belgium's legal and police systems seem to have returned to a rather lenient attitude towards sex and BDSM initiatives in general.

In June of this year, several well-known BDSM dominatrices were tried in court for their assistance in an establishment that had been advertising 'operation room role play' openly on the internet for years. The key person, a German plastic surgeon, had carried out "body modifications" (sometimes for real, in response to true patient desires and this allegedly up to transgender ops and castrations) in an illegal fashion (absence of proper medical licence). Two of the 5 assisting ladies received sentences like 80 hours of community service. Point being: in 1997 the "SM Judge" was totally ruined by the court for what was basicly a private case without any permanent physical damage to the 'victim', his wife.

Belgium consists mainly of 2 very separated communities: the 6 million Dutch-speaking Flemish in the North and some 4 million speaking French in Wallonia (and the "very peculiar" Brussels area).

In matters of BDSM, the Dutch communities (notably the Flemish in Belgium and the 16 million Dutch in the Netherlands, together known as the "Low Countries") quite enjoy their stable if not growing scene infrastructure like the BDSM shops and party clubs. I am not so much of a club visiting person myself but I can admire the dynamic of BDSM initiatives on the internet in the Low Countries. One example: there is no shortage of websites for personal ads (most of them gratis) targeting the Dutch communities. In fact, it's my impression that our local BDSM'ers cannot keep up with the possibilities offered by some of these organisations.

This is quite different in the French culture. Free websites for personal ads are not only scarce, they are also functionally poor. And female non-commercial BDSM enthusiasts to be found on them are even scarcer. And this while French web sites can easily target (and source from!) a general population of way over 70 million.


So in my view, the main cultural factor affecting my BDSM options is the Dutch-French language border (only 20 km southbound of my home). And if I were to move in order to find "richer fishing grounds", it would definitely be up north. It's just that because of my professional expertise I tend to target headquarter offices of multinational companies in the Brussels area. And unfortunately for me but Amsterdam, the 'Capital of Freedom', is quite a different business environment. But then again, it's also being called the 'most un-Dutch city of the Netherlands'.

Cheers!
Rob

PS: being Belgian means that alcohol (especially beer) is very common, even in BDSM club life.
PPS: edited to correct URL linking.



Thanks for this perspective. I have Wallonian & Flemish aquaintances who give each other a good friendly ribbing occaisionally, so I'm familiar with the country dynamics, though not from the BDSM side. Thank you for this perspective. I'll admit I'm surprised to hear that the French side is so repressed. I've been to Brussels before but strictly for business, in and out, I didn't get the real feel of the place.

And the same goes for Montreal about alcohol being served at events. I still have reservations, especially if there is a play room. Then again, it's everyone's responsability to play responsibly I guess. And I know Belgian beer well! Witbier is about the only beer I'll drink. Mind sending a little Blanche de Bruges my way? ;-)

- LA




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