Quieter TV commercials (Full Version)

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DomImus -> Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 10:44:14 AM)

It seems that Congress has on their agenda a plan to make broadcasters turn down the volume on the television commercials they show to match the program level of the television show. While I understand that this is not curing cancer or solving world hunger I am not of the mindset that every issue or lawmakers deal with has to involve moving mountains. There are many who will attack this idea since it isn't some big, bombastic issue but I appreciate their efforts. I don't watch a huge amount of television but the volume of the ads is a pain in the ass, especially at night.






SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 11:22:58 AM)

Interesting concept I didn't realise the commercials were broadcast at a louder volume.

That obviously would be quite annoying.

I've never really understood TV advertising because it's never made me want to buy some product or service. Also more and more people here have some form of digital recorder where they can fast-forward through the adverts. Which is probably why TV advertising revenue has nosedived.






Level -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 12:08:48 PM)

I'd like to see the ads turned down, as well; when they're so fucking loud that I have to reach for the remote, that's nonsense.

What is also nonsense, is that the TV industry is already saying that they'll have to buy new equipment to meet the lower volume expectations; say hello to higher cable/sat dish fees.




pahunkboy -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 12:16:38 PM)


It is called a sound boom.  This has caused so many fights in households.

They are alot louder.  This trend started in the 80s.

The law is nice- but TV understands only one thing.     $$$.

Vote with your feet.




Level -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 1:15:42 PM)

Not sure if I'm limber enough to get my foot up to the lever... [:)]




pahunkboy -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 1:22:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Not sure if I'm limber enough to get my foot up to the lever... [:)]


If the paying customer canceled en mass over crappy programming- it then would change. 

Until then we glorify mediocrity by financing it.




Missokyst -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 1:22:39 PM)

I have waited a long time to see someone create a law for this. And it is just not a TV issue. Ads that come on internet shows are even louder.




Level -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 1:27:38 PM)

pahunk, I don't think the programming, in general, is crappy. I just want the commercials turned down!




pahunkboy -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 1:33:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

pahunk, I don't think the programming, in general, is crappy. I just want the commercials turned down!


Same thing.

The program is crappy.   So bad even tivo is too annoying.   Alot of time spent on what is coming up next- and then when we come back - telling us what happened up to that point.   Of course if you see this all the time- it seems normal.   One of the worse things that can be stolen of yours is your time.




sophia37 -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 1:35:16 PM)

Its a Reagan legacy. Loud ads and long periods of ads. I hate them too. I guess this is a case of things going full circle. Makes me hope that if less loud ads can happen once more, then one day we'll again make stuff in the USA. One can only hope.




pahunkboy -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 1:39:48 PM)

The industry has stalled this law by at least 3 years.   I wrote congress over this one- a proposed law- it might even be 4 years now.




LadyPact -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 1:50:11 PM)

I recall reading back some time ago that the theory behind the louder commercials had to do with the business of people having a tendency of leaving the room with the television set during the breaks from programming.  Things such as going to the kitchen for a sandwich or going to the laundry room, which is rather common.  So the theory goes that broadcasting networks were using the louder commercials as an appeal to advertisers that their spots were still being received by the audience.

Makes a lot of sense in theory.  (I can't verify this, btw.  It's just something I remembered reading an article about it a very long time ago.)  However, it doesn't exactly address the fact that there are also a number of folks who will sit through commercials, and they are played louder.  Since My personal habit is only to watch tv in bed late at night, I'm actually glad to hear it.

Now, if they could come up with a way to reduce the volume level of infomercials as well, I'd kind of like that.  There's nothing like falling asleep to comedy central and being woken up to the ridiculously loud screaming of one of those "Girls Gone Wild" programs.  I mean, seriously.  Out of all of the times I've ever found the need to raise My shirt in My life, I've never had the compulsion to let out a high pitched scream when doing it.




thornhappy -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 2:36:11 PM)

They can't exceed the peak sound levels (which are regulated), but they push the average levels up, which sound loud against the regular show.

Unless you were watching an artillery bombardment!




Level -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 2:54:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I recall reading back some time ago that the theory behind the louder commercials had to do with the business of people   Out of all of the times I've ever found the need to raise My shirt in My life, I've never had the compulsion to let out a high pitched scream when doing it.



LP, if you could present video proof of this "silent shirt raising", it would be quite... edifying. [8D]




DomImus -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 6:33:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
The law is nice- but TV understands only one thing.     $$$.   Vote with your feet.


So do you mean by this that I should purchase no products that are advertised on television? I'm generally an advocate of the free market system in this fashion but that sweeping suggestion is not terribly practical. It's easy to boycott a certain store or even chain of stores but applying that practice here would cause me greater distress than the loud commercials.

Once football season is over this won't really be an issue for me again until next August. That's about all I watch on commercial tv in real time. Everything else is either cable shows that have no commercials or network fare that I download in divx format sans commercials. God bless the soul who came up with the idea of a USB port on a DVD player.

There is one upside to this. Billy Mays is gone.





numuncular -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 6:51:39 PM)


I had no idea you had this done to you over there (I dont know how you can tolerate nearly 20 mins of ads an hour either...)
but it does beg a question, any modern tv capable of HD and surround sound etc has a fairly sophisticated computer inside it, and surely it would be the easiest thing in the world for the firmware in it to limit both the peak and average decibel levels it puts out? so if the ad came on say, 20% louder it'd automatically cut the volume to compensate.





pahunkboy -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 8:31:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
The law is nice- but TV understands only one thing.     $$$.   Vote with your feet.


So do you mean by this that I should purchase no products that are advertised on television? I'm generally an advocate of the free market system in this fashion but that sweeping suggestion is not terribly practical. It's easy to boycott a certain store or even chain of stores but applying that practice here would cause me greater distress than the loud commercials.

Once football season is over this won't really be an issue for me again until next August. That's about all I watch on commercial tv in real time. Everything else is either cable shows that have no commercials or network fare that I download in divx format sans commercials. God bless the soul who came up with the idea of a USB port on a DVD player.

There is one upside to this. Billy Mays is gone.




No.  I mean stop paying to bring the garbage into YOUR home.   Via cable.   Nearly all TV reception now has to be paid for.   NBC is insolvent due to lack of viewers.
What started off as a $12 bill is now around $63..even tho congress passed a law to keep prices down.  I dont know anyone who gets tv reception with an antennae.  I had DISH for a while- during renewal DISH held out-for a cheaper price.  Meaning DISH pays the channels to pipe it out.  So that is standard.   When I was a kid we got channel 2,5,7,9 and 11 in.  No cable needed.   Now most people have a $42+ bill each and every month for these sound booms.  My point is- most people simply pay the bill as the "must" have TV reception.   But if people en mass canceled - then the industry would clean up.




Termyn8or -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 8:52:57 PM)

Ahem. Using FR.

The content on TV usually has a wide dynamic range, that is it gets loud and soft. This preserves the impact for enthusiasts everywhere, but causes problems for those who like to watch TV in the middle of the night. Many times they have to turn up the volume to hear the dialogue and then a car or building blows up or something, and if they happen to be hooked up to a 400 watt sound system it can wake the neighborhood.

This has been countered by some TV manufacturers by incorporating a feature called "level sound" or "smart sound" or whatever. What it boils down to is an audio compressor. A compressor in this sense makes the loud sounds softer and the soft sounds louder.

The debate over whether commercials are really louder or not has been going on for decades. Their sneaky asses get out of it by using peak level meters and pointing out that the ad reads no higher than the peaks of the program. While this is true, a true RMS reading of the level would prove them wrong because what they do is "upcompress" the sound. You see it can only get so loud. When it hits 100% modulation that is it. In the analog days it was highly illegal to overmodulate, but now in the digital age it doesn't matter much, except that the distortion is unacceptable.

By upcompression I mean that everything is brought up as close as possible to 100% modulation. That is what is done on FM radio in the US, and it is actually required by law, although some stations get away with breaking that particular regulation, especially if they broadcast alot of classical music. But you can still tell. On Rock and roll or good hillbilly you can easily tell the difference between the radio and a CD for example. The beat of the drum, the attack of a stringed instrument, and the crescenda of a piece of music is slightly muted of course. But all in all the music loses it's impact. The dynamic range is gone and is very hard to recreate.

Compression on the sending side and expansion on the recieving side has alway been a part of audio technology and is actually used, in a form called DBX. With certain media it runs the pants off Dolby C but is not entirely suited to tape recording. It is more suited to radio broadcasting and other media which does not alter the frequency response like tape does. Dolby was specifically develped for tape, at least Dolby B and forward from there. Dolby A was first and was used for all sorts of media, but was extremely tricky to calibrate properly. Dolby B was not so bad. When tape recording technoogy got better Dolby C came out, which is pretty close to having two Dolby B units in tandem. However Dolby only works on the high frequencies. It is mainly to reduce tape hiss. (apparent tape hiss)

DBX, or any compression/expansion scheme mainly works on the entire audio spectrum. It still does the same thing - drown out the noise in the medium. For a time they were selling expander only units to audiophiles to try to restore the dynamic range to the material. I have had and used such units and if used and calibrated properly can do wonders for the sound. It can make highly compressed FM sound like a really good tape. It can make a tape sound as good as a good LP and it can make an LP sound like a CD or other high quality digital medium.

It is all still an illusion though, but then so is the sound. Pioneer used to claim to "bring it back alive" but that was just hawking. Believe me, I know more about audio than the people who design this shit. It is still a reproduction, unless you got the band in your livingroom. The essense of the industry for decades was to reproduce the sound as accurately as possible and over the years billions of dollars have been spent to that end. The ability to make a sound seem louder is just a byproduct of this technology.

Years ago I put together a system that was a bit unique. The commercials were actually quieter than the program. I accomplished this by equalizing the audio before it went into the compressor. When I watched TV most of what I watched was not sensational, so the audio spectrum was not fully used most of the time. By boosting the highs and lows before compression it worked very well, since the commercials are always new, and have a tendency to use more of the frequency range than most programs.

I have thought of designing and marketing a product that does just that, any takers ? (yes I can design it quite easily)

T




igor2003 -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 9:10:10 PM)

I'm too cheap to pay for dish or cable, so I am one of the few that does still get my tv via antenna. I get 20 channels and really don't have any problem with the commercials being louder than the programming. Out of the 20 stations, however, there is one station that is a LOT louder than the others, and unfortunately it is one that I do watch quite a bit, so I am constantly changing the volume when I change to that station. I don't get quite as much sports as I like....damned ESPN keeps stealing the local college football so I have to listen to the games on the radio, but that is my one biggest complaint.




pahunkboy -> RE: Quieter TV commercials (12/19/2009 9:31:17 PM)

Term- if you could sell that device, people would buy it.




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