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Thankgiving grinch - 11/25/2009 10:52:12 PM   
Termyn8or


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What is this celebration ? It doesn't seem to be an adaptation of Pagan holidays. There is just about no religious connection whatsoever, so what is it that makes this day special ?

Well the way I see it is that it is the celebration of the dessimation of the indigeounous peoples of this country. At first they welcomed us with open arms and would be happy to live in peace and harmony with us. But that was not acceptable. So we dessimated them and damnear got off with genocide. We took this land and the way I see it to be is that to be true with one's self, one must be true with all things. That includes our wrongs.

Not that my family did it, we got here much later. But somehow I think we enjoy the fruits of such expoitation. That doesn't mean to give reparations, that would be absurd and impossible to administer fairly. But really we won.

So take your pick. It is difficult to have won and mourn those you had to kill to do it. But I wish people would understand it better. This is no holiday for me. These indigeounous peoples did not display any animosity at first, they helped the settlers. What screwed that all up ? I would say it is about the same thing that has screwed the whole world up.

So enjoy turkey day or whatever, but see it for what it is. It is nothing but a chance to hang around with family, nothing more. If you accept the good you must accept the bad. If you can do this [grasshoppers] you may achieve a mental state unknown to most.

To me it is a day of mournng. Mourning those who have been killed for the White eyes lust for power and expansion. You take it however you want it.

T
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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/26/2009 12:12:44 AM   
ShoreBound149


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
What is this celebration ? 

It's origin seems to be that of a harvest celebration.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving

quote:


There is just about no religious connection whatsoever

Thank God

quote:


We took this land


Hate to break it to you....the taking of the land of one group of people by another group of people to exploit it's resources has been a constant in the history of mankind. 

quote:


But somehow I think we enjoy the fruits of such expoitation. That doesn't mean to give reparations, that would be absurd and impossible to administer fairly. But really we won.

I'm always fascinated by those who feel guilty about something they did not do that happened generations ago. 

quote:


This is no holiday for me. 

More stuffing for me

quote:


What screwed that all up ? I would say it is about the same thing that has screwed the whole world up.

A little vague here.  But if you're referring to one of mankind's central traits being "survival of the fittest"....it ain't gonna change.
quote:


To me it is a day of mournng. Mourning those who have been killed for the White eyes lust for power and expansion. .

Again, fascinated by the guilt.  In this case it seems you have a case of White guilt.  The number of tribes, cities or countries of people in history who have taken what they wanted by force is an unknowable number.  Most "civilized" societies in the world today can point to some point in time where their ancestors exploited, enslaved or killed off some other people to improve their standing in the world. 

If it helps your guilt any stop by one a them 400 Indian gaming establishments in the United States and watch them print money.  They are generating $18.5B on their tax free reservations. 



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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/26/2009 7:05:46 AM   
Termyn8or


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Interesting quip by quip, but that last part .......

This may well be a form of White guilt, but if the shoe fits..... Our race - the human race has a history that is pretty ugly and I think it is better to face it. It is better to know what we are, we are killers. If you can recall the old original Star Trek, on this one planet Kirk says "I won't kill today". That's all we can do. Maybe that's what it is all supposed to mean.

So this afternoon they are most likely to chain me up, drag me to the driver's seat of my car and force me to go to Mom's. (no such luck). But so be it.

As far as the tax free establishments go, let it be. What we did was bad enough, to tax them would be yet another kick in the groin. In fact if they want to smoke pot and do peyote buttons as far as I am concerned if they don't bother anyone leave them alone. But then I believe the same for us as well.

There is a big todo right now over gambling in Ohio, if they got the shot at it I would be fine with it. Thanks for the land. In fact thanks for the very name of this state. Perhaps that is a form of reparartions, but I think it takes alot of damn gall to just walk into someone's country and say "Start paying me".

In a way I am thankful. First of all that we stopped short of that enormous hubris, which is that of robber barons. But also that we won and aren't floating around in a boat in the Atlantic ocean. So I will embrace that attitude long enough to endure this "holiday" while subliminating the truth.

I am thankful that it is only one day per year.

T

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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/26/2009 7:17:47 AM   
kiwisub12


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European adaptation of celebrating bringing home the harvest - as in, we get to eat this winter instead of starving to death = Thanksgiving.

As for stealing the land from the "Native Americans" - I hate to point it out to you, OP, but the Indians are or were squatters, wandering down from Canada where they illegally immigrated from Siberia. There are no native anythings, they are all immigrants - from Africa, so does that make us all African-Americans, or African-New Zealanders, or what ever your place of birth happens to be?

Ohg yeah, and lest we forget - there was plenty of lust for power, land and wimmins going on in the Indian nations. They are and were no better or no worse than white eyes.

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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/26/2009 7:59:56 AM   
Termyn8or


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Nice justification, until they show up at your shore or door.

T

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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/26/2009 8:11:56 AM   
kiwisub12


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Umm - which bit? Its not justification if its true. Sorry.

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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/26/2009 8:20:58 AM   
Termyn8or


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OK, suppose this.

China's economy improves to the point where they are the preeminent world power. They come to the US and with the weapons and the manpower they just take over the US. We now live under Chinese law and there is not a dam thing we can do about it. Our rights are now defined by their whim.

But since might makes right, this is OK then right ?

T

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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/26/2009 4:23:10 PM   
pahunkboy


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This tho is my favorite holiday.

Christmas is nice too. 

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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/26/2009 4:38:45 PM   
wisdomtogive


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umm, the majority of Native Americans celebrate Thanksgiving. I have had variety of Nations sitting at my table sharing our food and hospitality. Nothing wrong with giving thanks to the Great Spirit or whatever you wish to call God/Goddess so on. If you like to honor them and feed your guilt you can walk with many on the Trail of Tears in remembrance.

Thanksgiving can be a time of being grateful. It would nice to practice this daily and some try too do such.

Blessed be
wisdom to give

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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/26/2009 9:39:17 PM   
Aneirin


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White guilt, I know that one, for I have recognised it in myself also, but have come to realise what the whites did to non whites, they fist did to their own, possibly as far back as the dawn of mankind, the destruction of others that are different in whatever miniscule or imagined way, is the way of humanity and is not just a white thing. Look at any point in history, and civilisation, you will see the same, it is the dark side of humanity.

But, what I have come to realise, is it is not the thing of the commoner to wage war against others, the war, and there the creation of difference came from those that wished to control, those that had power and wanted more power as with power comes wealth, they educated people into becoming different, for their sole purposes, they wanted the commoner to do their dirty work for them, so they could gain more power and wealth. We have been manipulated all through history to enable the rich and powerful. When the world realises that, perhaps we might see an end to all this difference stupidity, as us of whatever colour are in reality the same and our enemies are our controllers, as they have always been.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7h08wL5Z2w


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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/26/2009 10:12:04 PM   
EbonyWood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

European adaptation of celebrating bringing home the harvest - as in, we get to eat this winter instead of starving to death = Thanksgiving.

As for stealing the land from the "Native Americans" - I hate to point it out to you, OP, but the Indians are or were squatters, wandering down from Canada where they illegally immigrated from Siberia. There are no native anythings, they are all immigrants - from Africa, so does that make us all African-Americans, or African-New Zealanders, or what ever your place of birth happens to be?

Ohg yeah, and lest we forget - there was plenty of lust for power, land and wimmins going on in the Indian nations. They are and were no better or no worse than white eyes.


You have to wonder what distinctions existed to differentiate between 'legal' and 'illegal' immigration all those thousands of years ago. I guess there were no 'white eyes' around yet to draw up a bunch of laws. Did they not pass through the correct border crossing?
 
To say they perpetrated any injustices equivalent to near genocide is a tasteless display of historical ignorance.

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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/26/2009 10:17:00 PM   
AquaticSub


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~Fast Reply~

No to excuse the sins of my forefathers but... raping, killing and stealing of land was going on in America long before we got here. Not sayin' it's right - just that we didn't invent the stuff or import it over and everything was magical pixies till they arrived.

Thanksgiving is a day when people get together, eat some turkey or tofu turkey, enjoy friends and family and, for once, take some time out of their lives to give thanks for what they have. Hopefully people take some time and read history books on the terrible things that have happened all over the world and in their own country's history and work to prevent those things happening in the future.

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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/27/2009 7:02:58 AM   
Marc2b


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As my uncle would say: "shut up with that pinko shit and pass the damned mashed potatos!"

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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/27/2009 7:16:34 AM   
kiwisub12


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I like your granddad!


And as for white guilt - i didn't do it, i don't believe in visiting the sins of the father onto his offspring, get over it all ready. Yes white men did horrible stuff, yellow men did horrible stuff, brown men red men - all colours of men did horrible stuff. Acknowledge it and go on, resolve not to be part of horrible stuff and live as well and ethically as you can. Learn from the past and be wary. And if you can help people in the middle of horrible stuff, do so.

Donate money to charities, work for a foodbank, go on a mission trip that is doing something material for people - be proactive in your expunging guilt. Wailing about it won't help anyone.

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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/27/2009 9:15:55 AM   
servantforuse


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If you have 'white guilt' about the Indians in America, just to to the nearest casino and play a little blackjack. Your guilt will disappear along with your money. They will feel better and so will you, maybe.

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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/27/2009 10:54:16 AM   
popeye1250


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"I'm always fascinated by those who feel guilty about something they did not do that happened generations ago."

LOL, yeah me too! Talk about "anal-retentive!"
Both sides of my family came to the U.S. from Ireland well after the civil war so when people talk about "slavery" to me I just give them the blank stare. It doesn't "mean anything" to me other than an historical occurance.
I'm trying to figure out what "in it" for people like that, I mean what do they get out of it by feeling "guilty" for something that happened hundreds of years before they were born?
Even if my ancesters would have been slaveholders so what? That has nothing to do with me does it?
I strongly suspect that that same personality type is involved with this new "Global Warming Religion."
Man, there's all kinds of things they could feel "guilty" about there isn't there? lol "The sky is falling and it's my fault!"
LOL, Pucker up those assholes!

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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/27/2009 3:37:00 PM   
NuevaVida


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What a negative attitude!!

My owner is Native American, my mother is from Spain, and my grandparents on my Dad's side were from Italy. 

Yet, Mr. Owner celebrated Thanksgiving with me and the rest of my family yesterday, in the spirit of gratitude for those who are in our lives and for what we have in life.  While we are grateful every day, Thanksgiving is a day which we can all get together and enjoy ourselves.  We DO hold hands in a circle before dinner, thanking God for the year we had, and giving a moment of silence to those family members we have lost.

And then we watch football, feast, play cards and laugh a lot - we enjoy each other and we are grateful for the time together and the shared experience.

Mr. Owner does not mourn on Thanksgiving.  He lives today, in the moment.  He brought his daughter to celebrate gratitude with the rest of us, as  he also recognizes there is much to be grateful for these days.


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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/27/2009 3:50:12 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

European adaptation of celebrating bringing home the harvest - as in, we get to eat this winter instead of starving to death = Thanksgiving.

As for stealing the land from the "Native Americans" - I hate to point it out to you, OP, but the Indians are or were squatters, wandering down from Canada where they illegally immigrated from Siberia. There are no native anythings, they are all immigrants - from Africa, so does that make us all African-Americans, or African-New Zealanders, or what ever your place of birth happens to be?

Ohg yeah, and lest we forget - there was plenty of lust for power, land and wimmins going on in the Indian nations. They are and were no better or no worse than white eyes.



According to the still-debated New World migration model, a migration of humans from Eurasia to the Americas took place via Beringia, a land bridge which formerly connected the two continents across what is now the Bering Strait.[12] Falling sea levels created the Bering land bridge that joined Siberia to Alaska, which began about 60,000 - 25,000 years ago.[12] The minimum time depth by which this migration had taken place is confirmed at 12,000 years ago, with the upper bound (or earliest period) remaining a matter of some unresolved contention.[13] These early Paleoamericans soon spread throughout the Americas, diversifying into many hundreds of culturally distinct nations and tribes.[14] The North American climate finally stabilized by 8000 BCE; climatic conditions were very similar to today's.[15] This led to widespread migration, cultivation of crops, and subsequently a dramatic rise in population all over the Americas.

According to the oral histories of many of the indigenous peoples of the Americas, they have been living there since their genesis, described by a wide range of traditional creation accounts.[18] The Na-Dene people occupied much of northwest and central North America starting around 8000 BCE. They were the earliest ancestors of the Athabascan- speaking peoples, including the present-day and historical Navajo and Apache. Their villages were constructed with large multi-family dwellings, used seasonally. People did not live there year round, but for the summer to hunt and fish, and to gather food supplies for the winter.[19] The Oshara Tradition people lived from 5500 BCE to 600 CE. The Southwestern Archaic Tradition was centered in north-central New Mexico, the San Juan Basin, the Rio Grande Valley, southern Colorado, and southeastern Utah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States

Out of curiosity, just how long does one have to live somewhere before they become a "native"? 8000 + 2000 (give or take a few) would strike me as long enough to claim ownership, even by todays laws.

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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/27/2009 3:56:51 PM   
Underumam


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I'm feeling a bit grinchy tonight myself...lol.

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RE: Thankgiving grinch - 11/27/2009 4:03:13 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

I'm feeling a bit grinchy tonight myself...lol.


Could you steal winter instead of Chritmas?..........please?


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