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Dominance and Leadership - 11/24/2009 4:53:20 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		I'm interested in discussing the link between dominance and leadership.
  1. Who to you is a great leader?
  2. Do they demonstrate any of the qualities that a good dominant should have?
  3. Do you think that to be a good dominant, you must be a leader?
I have my views but I'm going to hold off a little. I'm more interested in hearing yours for now ;-)

- LA


< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 11/24/2009 4:54:06 AM >

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/24/2009 4:56:40 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Apples to oranges. A dominant is someone who leads in a interpersonal relationship.

Doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a good head of state or CEO. In fact it's stereotypical that someone with that kind of pressure in their day job wants to submit in private for relief.

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/24/2009 6:08:57 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I'm interested in discussing the link between dominance and leadership.
  1. Who to you is a great leader?
  2. Do they demonstrate any of the qualities that a good dominant should have?
  3. Do you think that to be a good dominant, you must be a leader?
I have my views but I'm going to hold off a little. I'm more interested in hearing yours for now ;-)

- LA



1. On a personal level. My long ago English teacher and my owner.
2. Not *should have*, no. Useful to have, yes.
3. Not necessarily.

agirl

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/24/2009 7:41:19 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		To me, dominant is nothing more than a personality trait. There are many dominant people serving or considering themselves owned by others.

Not all people leading have a dominant personality nor do all those with a dominant personality make great leaders.

To me, a great leader is one that is willing to take responsibility both for themselves and those they agree to lead. They are someone that can remain calm in times of crisis, that can made decisions for the good of all, not just a select few, and not just temporarily. They see big picture. They do not give in to pressure to do what is easiest, most popular, or the current fad. They are willing to make difficult decisions that will not be popular or well liked, despite the critics. Etc etc etc......you get my drift. None of that requires a dominant personality, but it does require maturity.

As for who........there have been many. None of them perfect human beings but willing to lead even in the face of adversity.


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 11/24/2009 7:44:26 AM >

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/24/2009 9:00:12 AM   
LPslittleclip


Posts: 1163
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline 		im a slave and in a leadership position in the army. so no it is not nessasary to be a good leader to be a good dominant. my mistress is my first and only one, as far as a great leader that depende on when and how they lead as to wich is the best. as for the traits that each showed some would have been considered lesser of a leader due to their paticular traits

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/24/2009 9:17:55 AM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		Good question.
I do believe that Dominants are the leader in their relationship; they may or may not be the leader in all aspects of life, and not all leaders are Dominants, but in my experience, leadership is very important to Domination.

Contrary to the erotic novels, no one is "forced" into submission or slavery; the only way to get a person to submit to you is by inspiring them, earning their trust, and convincing them that there is something about you worth following.

Coincidently, a military leader, or CEO, or manager, does pretty much the same thing- the officers and bosses who rule entirely through puling rank and "do it or you're fired" are the epitome of poor leadership.

Leadership isn't charisma; it isn't a mysterious quality that you are born with; it is a skill that can be taught and learned.

When I was a Scoutmaster I saw plenty of excellent leaders, people who could take a group of unruly teenage boys and turn them into a well-disciplined team who each were inspired to do their best. What made it striking was that in Scouts you really don't have any power of coercion- you can't hit them, fire them, send them to the brig; the only power you have to keep them in line is the power of the group dynamics, and your ability to inspire their loyalty.

Once you acheive that, you are the dominant one, the lead dog in the pack.

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/24/2009 3:01:40 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Firstly, I appreciate all responses to date. They all bring great perspectives to the debate!

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex
Good question.
I do believe that Dominants are the leader in their relationship; they may or may not be the leader in all aspects of life, and not all leaders are Dominants, but in my experience, leadership is very important to Domination.

I would tend to agree with you on this point. I can't imagine someone being a really effective dominant if they weren't an effective leader. That said, not all dominant/submissive relationships are effective!
quote:


Contrary to the erotic novels, no one is "forced" into submission or slavery; the only way to get a person to submit to you is by inspiring them, earning their trust, and convincing them that there is something about you worth following.

Now you're talking! I'm a leader in my career, in my family life, in my personal life and in my relationships. I know that I became a leader in these settings is by inspiring and earning trust. The convincing in most cases didn't take much effort on my behalf because I inspired them and earned their trust.
quote:


Coincidently, a military leader, or CEO, or manager, does pretty much the same thing- the officers and bosses who rule entirely through puling rank and "do it or you're fired" are the epitome of poor leadership.

Good point. The *leader* is more than just a boss or a CEO. Many consider that one of the greatest leaders of our time was Mahatma Gandhi, not quite a CEO!
quote:


Leadership isn't charisma; it isn't a mysterious quality that you are born with; it is a skill that can be taught and learned.

Charisma however does help when one is being a leader. But it goes beyond charisma, that's for sure and charisma is definitely not the foundation.
quote:


When I was a Scoutmaster I saw plenty of excellent leaders, people who could take a group of unruly teenage boys and turn them into a well-disciplined team who each were inspired to do their best. What made it striking was that in Scouts you really don't have any power of coercion- you can't hit them, fire them, send them to the brig; the only power you have to keep them in line is the power of the group dynamics, and your ability to inspire their loyalty.

Once you acheive that, you are the dominant one, the lead dog in the pack.

Excellent example!

Now all that said, I agree with LPslittleclip that not all people who are leaders in their professional life will necessarily be in their personal life. And I know that one very well first hand. Most of the boys who've submitted to me have had careers where they were either at the top or very close to the top of their organizations.

- LA


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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/24/2009 3:06:47 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		For me personally a dominant must be a leader in life, not just in our relationship. He must take life by the reigns. He must be able to guide others and direct them in a positive manner.

I personally think they go hand in hand and why I also believe there are actually very few dominant people in general. I think they're a very select group and a rarity.

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/25/2009 8:21:29 AM   
ryansway


Posts: 7
Joined: 7/29/2009
Status: offline 		Doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a good head of state or CEO. In fact it's stereotypical that someone with that kind of pressure in their day job wants to submit in private for relief. ---well said!!!this was me when i first found a Domme ,, and a little about leadership- "leaders aren't born they-er cornered"
when you look at the spectra of dominant people ,the low end are spoiled ,self centered ,and for the most part useless to 90% of society as they tend to get in their own way
and the mindful dominant accomplishes much with little to nothing!
one key when observing dormants and/or leaders is their ability to cause you to "want" to do something


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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/25/2009 10:38:30 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I've spoken to a few dominants who I'm sure would make downright shitty leaders. You need more skills than being able to micromanage one other person to do a decent job of that, and the only time a country's ever been lead by somebody with dominatrix toxaemia was during the Thatcher years, about which the less said the better.

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/25/2009 5:28:11 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

For me personally a dominant must be a leader in life, not just in our relationship. He must take life by the reigns. He must be able to guide others and direct them in a positive manner.

I personally think they go hand in hand and why I also believe there are actually very few dominant people in general. I think they're a very select group and a rarity.


Well said. I'd tend to agree with you on this note.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/25/2009 5:52:23 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

You need more skills than being able to micromanage one other person to do a decent job of that.


I don't particulary think that micromanagement is a very effective leadership style to be honest.

Also, one needs to make the distinction between dominant and domineering!

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/25/2009 10:21:18 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
For me personally a dominant must be a leader in life, not just in our relationship. He must take life by the reigns. He must be able to guide others and direct them in a positive manner.
I personally think they go hand in hand and why I also believe there are actually very few dominant people in general. I think they're a very select group and a rarity.



I don't agree with this at all.

Many people have jobs where they are followers.
Many people are not involved in any kind of social group (church, local politics, bowling league) and if they are they do not lead or guide or have any kind of influence over others.
Many people “go along to get along” in public venues.

They may be capable of leading, but choose not to.
Or they are not called upon to guide or direct others in their jobs or social interactions.
Many of these folks still make excellent dominant partners and provide good leadership to their submissive counterpart.

< Message edited by catize -- 11/25/2009 10:22:23 PM >

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/25/2009 11:30:37 PM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

  1. Do you think that to be a good dominant, you must be a leader?



I think to be a ‘good’ dominant one must have an honorable goal and some idea of how to achieve said goal, but that they would also know when, and be willing to let someone else lead, if it was beneficial to their goal.

Kim


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one voice

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/26/2009 3:44:04 AM   
Adelleda


Posts: 20
Joined: 9/23/2009
Status: offline 		I am part of a militaristic youth organisation and we get taught what makes a good leader.
1) Things that make a great leader are, amongst other things but this is the one i remember most is, being aware of your strengths and limitations and those of your subordinates. There's other that would apply also, but I don't remember them right now.
2) A good dominant should definitly show these.
3) They are mutually inclusive.

Then again all this is just my opinion and experience.

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/26/2009 8:58:41 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

You need more skills than being able to micromanage one other person to do a decent job of that.


I don't particulary think that micromanagement is a very effective leadership style to be honest.

Also, one needs to make the distinction between dominant and domineering!

- LA

A very good point.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/26/2009 12:48:20 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I'm interested in discussing the link between dominance and leadership.
  1. Who to you is a great leader?
  2. Do they demonstrate any of the qualities that a good dominant should have?
  3. Do you think that to be a good dominant, you must be a leader?

1) Nobody famous that you'd know. Most famous people suck at it.
2) Yes
3) Yes

Being a leader means simply that one way or the other, you can inspire, coax, cajole, threaten, bully, or in some other way get someone else to follow you. If you do those things, then you are a leader. Sounds much like dominance to me. In my mind, dominance is nothing more than leadership in the context of an intimate relationship.

Being a "good" or "great" leader is a subjective assessment. What is "good" or "great" to me, may not be to someone else.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/26/2009 3:57:08 PM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Being a leader means simply that one way or the other, you can inspire, coax, cajole, threaten, bully, or in some other way get someone else to follow you. If you do those things, then you are a leader. Sounds much like dominance to me.

 
What would leading by example be classified as, and if it is a submissive doing it, are they then considered dominant?

Kim

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Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/26/2009 4:34:39 PM   
greeneyedreamer


Posts: 442
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline 		My 2¢... A good dominant should be a great leader, maybe not in his professional life but his personal life. I do believe that leadership is imperative for a dominant. A great leader to me is my dominant man. He happens to be a professional dominant also, but that is not important. A very good friend of mine is also a leader in his work and private life although not what he considers a kinky dominant. If you can't lead personally, why on earth would I want to take orders from you? I am entirely too strong to be lead by an person who can't control himself or situations. I don't know. That's my 2¢ and it has nothing to do with career choices... everyone seems to be mixing the two.

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I am still learning... Michelangelo, age 87

Maybe some women weren't meant to be tamed. Maybe they are suppose to run wild until they find someone just as wild to run with. Sex and the City

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RE: Dominance and Leadership - 11/26/2009 7:58:53 PM   
DrMEPain


Posts: 1
Joined: 11/11/2009
Status: offline 		1. Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Jr.
2. Yes, leadership involves the courage to lead, to take responsibility for what happens to your followers.  That is no small thing.
3. No.  I am an experienced and successful Dominant but have no desire to lead others (other than my significant other).  I am independent and have neither the desire to lead others or to be followed by others.


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